Quantcast

Subaru? Audi? Volvo?

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
12,622
1,989
North Van
So after looking at each of these wagon options for years, but only having driven one of the three, today, I finally drove a second of the three. A 2005 Subaru Legacy GT.

I gotta say, it was pretty awesome. Plenty 'o juice, and plenty 'o traction. Lotsa space, comfy seats, it even had a trailer hitch! I'm still just lookin' for now, but I'll have to make a decision within about a month and a half.

I've also driven a Volvo V70R, but that thing was way expensive and a huge vehicle. Superfast, but way beyond my means and needs.

So now, the remaining option is the Audi A4 Avant. I've never driven one, love the look, but even having not driven one yet, I'm thinking the Subaru has taken the cake. I'll give it a chance, but the value factor just doesn't seem to be there with the Audi.

Man that Legacy was fast.

I also drove a couple Outback XTs and a 3.0R. They were all automatic and just not as much fun as the Legacy GT. The 3.0R, although rated for the same power (250hp), just didn't seem to have the guts anywhere near the XT. I guess I kinda enjoy torque steer...

A few more paycheques to go.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
The GT is a sweet wagon. With a stick, and if I had the cash, I'd pick it up in a heartbeat.

The A4 Avant will be pretty slow and mushy by comparison, unless you pony up for an S4.

New Vulvas=Fail.
 

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
12,622
1,989
North Van
Yep, it was a 5speed. The shifter felt a tad rubbery, but that's something you'd get used to I spose...
 

DirtyDog

Gang probed by the Golden Banana
Aug 2, 2005
6,599
0
I had a 2006 Volvo S40. It was fun to drive but had some quality problems a new vehicle just shouldnt have.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
14,390
1,496
Colorado
The rubbery feelings in the shifter can be fixed with poly bushings and a short shifter for under $200. Best for driving feel upgrade you can make.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
27,246
2,117
i'm glad you came to your senses. down with the VW auto group!
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
Where do ya get one of those?
http://www.rallysportdirect.com/shop/cobb-double-adjustable-legacy-short-shifter-p-2901.html

Link for bushings underneath that.

Toshi, your blind hatred is upsetting :D

If you can afford the car, insurance, and gas (V8 death), a B6 S4 (04 onwards, I believe) will make you wet yourself, moreso than the GT.

Rest assured, the A4 1.8T will leave you feeling longing after driving the Legacy GT. It was the first Subaru I actually liked driving.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
27,246
2,117
Any fix for the first gear synchro that dissolves after 10 miles?
double clutch into first gear. oh, the STi's 6 speed fixes this. ;) (apparently the 2007+ has an additional 1st gear synchro, too?)
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,621
3,441
Sleazattle
double clutch into first gear. oh, the STi's 6 speed fixes this. ;) (apparently the 2007+ has an additional 1st gear synchro, too?)

On my WRX there is a small speed range where 2nd is still too high and double clutching still doesn't get you into first. Admittedly I have never tried bouncing it off the rev limiter during the process.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
12,737
1,427
Fort of Rio Grande
What is your price range & is there a specific reason you are going used?

Your area provides plenty of pseudo rally opportunity on twisty secondary roads where additional ground clearance will come in handy.
 

Total Heckler

Beer and Bike Enthusiast
Apr 28, 2005
8,083
18
Santa Cruz, CA
I know I push the A4 Avant a bunch. But I love it. I have driven Legacy's and a few Volvo wagons. The Volvo's are quick and I wasn't too impressed with the subie. Granted, my A4 isn't super fast or anything (yet) but its got plenty of power for what I do. I have a rack on top and can fit 4 bikes up there, and one in the trunk. 5 people and riding gear for those Downieville/Northstar trips.

Stock the A4 did fine. I upgraded the suspension, wheels, short shifter, turbo timer, brake lines, rotors, etc and the car rocks now. I am going to be upgrading the turbo and should be doing 260hp-300hp.

The nice thing about the B5 A4's is that they have so much potential with the stock motor. Stock comes with 150hp/150trq. Just a chip bumps you to 200hp/250trq.

Best of luck with the search. Hopefully you can get behind the wheel of a nice A4 soon.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
What is your price range & is there a specific reason you are going used?

Your area provides plenty of pseudo rally opportunity on twisty secondary roads where additional ground clearance will come in handy.

because buying a brand new car is dumb unless you have excessive amounts of money.
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
15,127
3,437
behind you, don't wait up.
total heckler: consider upgrading your fuel injectors at the same time you do the turbo (k04?) if you want to get the most from the mod. How many miles, and when did you last do your timing belt?
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
total heckler: consider upgrading your fuel injectors at the same time you do the turbo (k04?) if you want to get the most from the mod. How many miles, and when did you last do your timing belt?
Sounds like a GT28RS kit or something, K04s push 275whp maxed out on bolt-ons.

Man up! GT40R! Can a 1.8T even spool that turbo?

Though Josh (TH) is right...the A4 offers more in terms of bolt-on madness. However, most people don't delve into that...
 

Total Heckler

Beer and Bike Enthusiast
Apr 28, 2005
8,083
18
Santa Cruz, CA
total heckler: consider upgrading your fuel injectors at the same time you do the turbo (k04?) if you want to get the most from the mod. How many miles, and when did you last do your timing belt?
When I do the turbo it will also be injectors, chip, manifold, front mount, and all of the little things with that.

I have 101k on the clock and I did my timing belt at 100k.

Yeah I was thinking something along the lines of the GT28RS.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
:busted: People like you are the reason why buying a used car is such a crap shoot... we know how you drive. :)
A) A car with 10-20k miles with factory warranty...riiiight. Have fun eating that depreciation! :rolleyes:

B) I'd rather buy my car from someone who knew what the fvck was going on with their car and regularly maintained it than from the average American (IE: You) who only takes their car to the mechanic when the oil light is screaming or smoke is billowing out the hood...
 

drkenan

anti-dentite
Oct 1, 2006
3,443
0
west asheville
I had an '98 A4 for 2 1/2 years and 6 months ago I upgraded to a 2000 S4. Let me shoot you straight:

The A4 is a GREAT automobile but it will eat you out of house and home unless you learn how to work on it yourself. There will ALWAYS be something wrong with it. If you want something that feels fast then just get a chip for it and be done, however be prepared to have a blown turbo on the way back from a great biking weekend in West Virginia (and then get towed back 300 miles from some redneck in the middle of the night). :plthumbsdown:

If you're going into it planning to upgrade to the GT28RS, etc then I would suggest looking around for a B5 S4 instead. Whoever above said they'd look for a B6 S4 is on something strong. There's actually a thread on Audizine right now asking if the B5 owners would trade for a B6 and the answer from everyone is NO.

Also, don't let anyone tell you not to shuttle in it:

 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,621
3,441
Sleazattle
A) A car with 10-20k miles with factory warranty...riiiight. Have fun eating that depreciation! :rolleyes:

B) I'd rather buy my car from someone who knew what the fvck was going on with their car and regularly maintained it than from the average American (IE: You) who only takes their car to the mechanic when the oil light is screaming or smoke is billowing out the hood...

Most of us don't have worthless little lives where we can spend the time looking for the car we want from someone who "knew their car".
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
If you're going into it planning to upgrade to the GT28RS, etc then I would suggest looking around for a B5 S4 instead. Whoever above said they'd look for a B6 S4 is on something strong. There's actually a thread on Audizine right now asking if the B5 owners would trade for a B6 and the answer from everyone is NO.
I suggested a B6 S4 for the reliability of the 40v V8 vs. the twin turbo V6. Unless you have the time to seek out a well-maintained, pristine B5 S4, you're going to have a $3k turbo replacement bill bite you in the ass sometime in the future, but a big turbo 1.8T is pretty reliable with a good kit from APR or the like (and easy to work on in the A4/Passat).

Westy said:
Most of us don't have worthless little lives where we can spend the time looking for the car we want from someone who "knew their car".
I'm sorry, did I impinge on your ego party? I forget, you're too good to actually look for a car/work on it and associate with lower forms of life like myself. Cunt.
 

drkenan

anti-dentite
Oct 1, 2006
3,443
0
west asheville
Unless you have the time to seek out a well-maintained, pristine B5 S4, you're going to have a $3k turbo replacement bill bite you in the ass sometime in the future, but a big turbo 1.8T is pretty reliable with a good kit from APR or the like (and easy to work on in the A4/Passat).
I have to disagree with you on the reliability aspect of a big turbo setup on the A4. I was gonna go full BT but found a great deal on the S4. And unfortunately you're right about the $3k turbo replacement - and that's for a DIY bare bones setup.

I still wouldn't trade a B5 for the B6 - nothing quite like when those turbos throw you back all the way to redline. :busted:
 

erastusboy

Monkey
Mar 5, 2003
470
0
I didn't know you could say that on RM

Side note, if no one buys nice new cars who would everyone buy nice used cars from?

If no one buys nice used cars who can their formerly nice new cars?

Cars are for pussies go ride your bikes.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,605
917
Seattle
Two and a Half Men was just hating on Volvo station wagons. Basically the joke was that they were the least masculine car possible.


I drive one with pride. :busted: '96 850. Not the turbo or GLT, unfortunatly. At least it's a standard.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,621
3,441
Sleazattle
I didn't know you could say that on RM

Side note, if no one buys nice new cars who would everyone buy nice used cars from?

If no one buys nice used cars who can their formerly nice new cars?

Cars are for pussies go ride your bikes.
Meh, I was being a dick and cunt is a proper anatomical term.

16 year old kid down the road with a cherry MkII GTI asked me to join his local VW club. He is actually a really cool kid and I very respectfully declined.
 

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
12,622
1,989
North Van
Hmm. I just want a reliable car that's reasonably fun to drive. I'm way too much of a mechano-tard to bother with any of the upgrade stuff. Maybe a suspension tweak of something if I'm really looking for something to spend money on, but after I finish with these crazy Germans, I plan on maybe doing a little travelling, so the odds of spending extra cash on improving my car are slim to none.

Sorta the same attitude I have toward my bike...
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
Hmm. I just want a reliable car that's reasonably fun to drive. I'm way too much of a mechano-tard to bother with any of the upgrade stuff. Maybe a suspension tweak of something if I'm really looking for something to spend money on, but after I finish with these crazy Germans, I plan on maybe doing a little travelling, so the odds of spending extra cash on improving my car are slim to none.

Sorta the same attitude I have toward my bike...
Legacy GT sounds perfect.
 

Heath Sherratt

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2004
1,875
0
In a healthy tension
My Volvo Xc70 '02 is pretty sweet. I love the payload/gas milage vs any SUV. Pretty luxury too and with the VIP you get a certified pre owned car with a 100k warranty. Can't beat the safety factor, all my friends who are firemen or first responders have all complimented me on the Volvo from wrecks they have seen. Plus I got a 50k car for 20 and it was pristine with only 40k on the engine. I too have been looking at the same wagons and Audi is rising to the top. What is this about constant maintenance? I was looking for an all road quattro A4 2.0 wagon. Any word on those?
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
12,737
1,427
Fort of Rio Grande
B) I'd rather buy my car from someone who knew what the fvck was going on with their car and regularly maintained it than from the average American (IE: You) who only takes their car to the mechanic when the oil light is screaming or smoke is billowing out the hood...
You are correct - I bought a new car because I could afford it and the maintenance it requires. I have no interest in tinkering under the hood so I chose a vehicle known for its reliability and low cost of ownership. It is serviced by the dealer who not only sends service reminders but also picks it up and drops it off from my place of employment. :)

Anyone who has purchased a car previously owned by me has purchased a car with complete dealer maintained service records that are verifiable.

So, just because I don't change my own oil doesn't mean my car isn't adequately maintained.

When I was younger and didn't have adequate resources - I did my own mechanical work. I was only a fair mechanic - I got by but it took way too much of my free time.
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,279
0
seattle
Hmm. I just want a reliable car that's reasonably fun to drive. I'm way too much of a mechano-tard to bother with any of the upgrade stuff. Maybe a suspension tweak of something if I'm really looking for something to spend money on, but after I finish with these crazy Germans, I plan on maybe doing a little travelling, so the odds of spending extra cash on improving my car are slim to none.

Sorta the same attitude I have toward my bike...
the subaru fits this (your) profile much more than the audi in my experience.

My '02 outback wagon has needed nothing but regular maint. that I can do all myself (oil, tranny/differential fluids, wiper blades, etc.).

The fiance has a '00 A4 2.8 30 valve and it has been nothing short of a money pit. Needed all new front suspension (eight control arms, sway bar links, tie rods) at approx 70K as ALL the 'lifetime' bushings were bad and things were creaking and knocking (did myself). It has been leaking oil from one place or another for a couple years....I have found what I can, had it into the shop several times....last time to reseal the oil pan...oh yea you need to drop the ENGINE to replace the oil pan gasket!!!
Tranny was acting up...thought I would flush and refill the auto....NOT. It is yet another 'lifetime' deal. No drain, no dipstick, and no filler.
Things are just so crammed in the engine bay, and so overwhelmingly poorly engineered that even the most basic work is not possible at home and ends up costing WAY more that it would for any other car.....

Oh yea, take the audi to the dealer....and they wash it with the windows down..and did not notice!!!!!