Subaru? Audi? Volvo?

drkenan · Jan 29, 2008

davep said:
The fiance has a '00 A4 2.8 30 valve and it has been nothing short of a money pit. Needed all new front suspension (eight control arms, sway bar links, tie rods) at approx 70K as ALL the 'lifetime' bushings were bad and things were creaking and knocking (did myself). It has been leaking oil from one place or another for a couple years....I have found what I can, had it into the shop several times....last time to reseal the oil pan...oh yea you need to drop the ENGINE to replace the oil pan gasket!!!
Tranny was acting up...thought I would flush and refill the auto....NOT. It is yet another 'lifetime' deal. No drain, no dipstick, and no filler.
Things are just so crammed in the engine bay, and so overwhelmingly poorly engineered that even the most basic work is not possible at home and ends up costing WAY more that it would for any other car.....

Oh yea, take the audi to the dealer....and they wash it with the windows down..and did not notice!!!!!

That's pretty typical for an Audi. And I'm sure you know this, but don't ever take it to a dealer. If it's not brand new they don't care about it. The control arms that you mentioned are a very common problem but an easy fix - I think mine took half a day when I did it in my driveway. If you think the A4 is cramped in the engine bay, you should see the S4 - you have to pull the engine to change the clutch, turbos or any number of other things that could be a lot easier.

I love my Audi and it REALLY shines when shuttling gravel roads but I'd say stick with the Subaru unless you really like working on your own car.

MMike · Jan 29, 2008

Da Peach said:
and get out of my way.

This part might be a problem for you where you are

Serial Midget · Jan 29, 2008

Da Peach said:
Indeed.

I'm starting to think I should just jump on this one while it's available. They're kinda rare. Black on black to boot...

Whenever I see an intimidating hood-scoop like that, in my rear view mirror, I get the hell out of the way. :shocked:

Heath Sherratt · Jan 29, 2008

Well, not to be the bad guy here but I have a lot of friends who own Sti's and the wrx's and both have meticulously maintained their cars, they are car fanatics and were expecting much from their cars. Jehan had his engine block crack in half on the way home from N* at 66k, just past the warranty, Suabru told him to take a hike. He bought a used Japanese engine for 500 bones, paid to have it installed and sold it promptly. This has happened twice to my friends and both immediately after the warranty elapsed. The Evo by Mitsu has the best car for the buck but no wagon. The Audi has the best all wheel system but apparently can have maintenance issues. All the Audi owners I know are pretty happy and it may be because of the dealer. Our dealer here is on it and makes folks happy soo...as for the Volvo's, I was a little pissed when I just bought a CPO vehicle and the tranny went out but to their credit, they replaced it and fixed the ti rods no hassle, well, we hassled a bit and now they love us so we get VIP treatment whenever we go in. I have talked to many mechanics that are awarded for their levels of service and they all agree that Audi and Mitsu have the best all wheel system, Suby and Volvo are in a far second from a mechanics standpoint. My two cents. Do what you gonna do.

syadasti · Jan 29, 2008

I'd give you that Mitsubishi has better reliability than Subaru but AWD systems - are you kidding - Volvo is way behind the other three...

Volvo use a pathetic electronic haldex AWD system - you might as well go FWD....

http://www.leftlanenews.com/video-volvo-vs-subaru-awd.html

blue · Jan 29, 2008

Quattro with a torsen locking rear diff, ala the old 5000s/90s would be tits again... (I'm contemplating buying a 5000 with a big turbo upgrade)

Subarus aren't as reliable as everyone else makes them out to be...I'm not entirely sure how they garnered that reputation. It's my feeling that when Subaru fvcks up, it's things like engines and transmissions going out. When VAG fvcks up, it's everything little and small and electrical dying.

However, that said, they are more reliable than most VAG products.

UiUiUiUi · Jan 29, 2008

is the 5 series BMW with 4wd available in the US?
if they are check them out really nice cars and imho the 4wd is better then audis quattro technology

drkenan · Jan 29, 2008

blue said:
Quattro with a torsen locking rear diff, ala the old 5000s/90s would be tits again... (I'm contemplating buying a 5000 with a big turbo upgrade)

FTW!!!!! I'm in a geeky Audi club and most of the guys have the older UrS4/S6s - you defintely can't go wrong with those setups. So much more reliable than my B5.

Toshi · Jan 29, 2008

blue said:
Quattro with a torsen locking rear diff, ala the old 5000s/90s would be tits again... (I'm contemplating buying a 5000 with a big turbo upgrade)

ugh, you never learn, do you.

save up and buy a real car. 20 year old POSes are exactly that, even with a sheen of euro-chic.

:busted:

blue · Jan 29, 2008

Toshi said:
ugh, you never learn, do you.

save up and buy a real car. 20 year old POSes are exactly that, even with a sheen of euro-chic.

I have a real car. It's cost me $50+oil changes in 5 months of owning it

. I also <3 it. Not going to lie, if I could afford it I'd be in an RX8.

I want the 5000 because of quattro and locking rear diff for getting to work (I work at Park City Mountain Resort and potentially Snowbird next week)...I'd sell it when I move in May. Just a temporary winter beater. And because it puts down over 300whp if the upgrades are true...

I wouldn't call it a sheen of euro-chic...the 5000 has been the styling benchmark for sedans for the past 20 years.

Westy · Jan 29, 2008

blue said:
if I could afford it I'd be in an RX8.

Then you would be spending $50 on oil between changes. :busted:

I was really thinking about getting a RX8, but I wanted more low end torque.

Toshi · Jan 29, 2008

blue: snow tires + chains are a lot cheaper than a 5000.

Westy: ok, torque is a very valid criticism. on the other hand, since you hit the rev limiter in 2nd gear of 6 at around 65 mph it's not debilitating -- you just need to drop down a gear or three when overtaking. good thing that it has a nice, smooth shifter.

oil consumption hasn't been bad in my post-recall engine btw, around 1 qt/3k miles.

Heath Sherratt · Jan 29, 2008

From what I understand the only awd system to rival the quatrro is the mitsubishi rally system in the EVO. What has BMW done to compare? And what are the downsides to the 07/08 Audi A4 2.0 wagons?

skatetokil · Jan 29, 2008

I'm toying with the idea of picking up a '95 90 Sport for just under 4 grand. Any experience with this car? Non turbo 2.8L is supposed to be a pretty solid engine from what I hear, but I'm worried it's going to be a slow gas guzzler. Anyone driven the 2.8 A4?

I'm also looking at e30 BMWs and a couple other small sports sedans. Drove an 87 325i last week that had a rebuilt and tricked out engine. Loved the ride, but it had about 50 cosmetic/electrical/running gear issues and I couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger.

I'd been thinking about a second gen Acura Legend coupes but there were so few made with the type 2 engine and the 6 speed stick that there is a real premium paid for cars in decent condition. They also have headgasket problems which would be a real bitch.

Anybody got any great ideas for a new ride? I loved driving the new R32 but I got turned off the late 90's GTIs as slow money pits. Have you upgraded yours at all blue?

I have an Isusu Rodeo right now that certainly the most useful car I've ever had, but it's just kind of fragile/cheap feeling. Drives well enough on the freeway, great in snow, great on gravel roads, but in the city and in the windy mountains between here and good riding it is an absolute pig.

blue · Jan 29, 2008

skatetokil said:
I'm toying with the idea of picking up a '95 90 Sport for just under 4 grand. Any experience with this car? Non turbo 2.8L is supposed to be a pretty solid engine from what I hear, but I'm worried it's going to be a slow gas guzzler. Anyone driven the 2.8 A4?

I'm also looking at e30 BMWs and a couple other small sports sedans. Drove an 87 325i last week that had a rebuilt and tricked out engine. Loved the ride, but it had about 50 cosmetic/electrical/running gear issues and I couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger.

I'd been thinking about a second gen Acura Legend coupes but there were so few made with the type 2 engine and the 6 speed stick that there is a real premium paid for cars in decent condition. They also have headgasket problems which would be a real bitch.

Anybody got any great ideas for a new ride? I loved driving the new R32 but I got turned off the late 90's GTIs as slow money pits. Have you upgraded yours at all blue?

I have an Isusu Rodeo right now that certainly the most useful car I've ever had, but it's just kind of fragile/cheap feeling. Drives well enough on the freeway, great in snow, great on gravel roads, but in the city and in the windy mountains between here and good riding it is an absolute pig.

The 2.8 12v V6 is as solid as they come, but the car will have typical older Audi electrical issues (window regulators, lights, dials, etc.). They aren't quick cars...if memory serves me right they have around 170bhp and weigh approx. 3100lbs. Not to mention Quattro chews through about 22% of your HP before it gets to the ground. The aftermarket is fairly small, availability of parts might get somewhat troublesome. I've always liked the looks of those cars, especially with a rear spoiler. I'd rather get the 5cyl 20v and turbocharge it, but that's me. Not much room for tinkering with the V6.

An E30 BMW could be a great car. They're more solid than VW/Audis if they've been well maintained. Huge aftermarket, parts are cheap, easy to work on. Problem is the ones in good shape with maintenance records are going to fetch a pretty penny. Definitely get a 325i/is, not an e or base model. Eta engines are no fun. They handle well, far better than a VW product could dream of, but not as good as what some could consider their current primary competitor - the Porsche 944. But, they are easier to work on, more reliable, practical, etc.

My Golf 1.8T is a nice little daily. With $1000 worth of bolt-on parts you can push 250bhp without worrying about breaking drivetrain parts or engine blocks, they're no slouch with a little tinkering. Mine has been trouble free (and it has 105k miles) so far, it has been well cared for over its lifetime. Keep in mind that they don't handle terribly well, given their FWD transverse platform. That said, many people get your typical VW electrical problems (coilpacks, sensors, lights, MAFs, etc.). Supposedly the 2002+ cars are much more reliable than the pre 02 cars, but the only problem mine has had was a bad MAF, and it's a 2000. However, catastrophic leave-you-stranded type failures are rare and far flung. I got a killer deal on my car, the biggest reason I picked it up...and it's a 4-door Golf 1.8T, pretty rare.

R32s are cool, but frankly, not worth the coin right now. They're not fast for what you pay (especially with the MkIV, whose market price at present nearly exceeds original MSRP), and they don't have a "real" AWD system (Haldex). If you want a well-handling late model VW, it ain't it. The MkVs are not terribly popular amongst the "enthusiast" (nothing more than German rice) crowd because of the DSG-only option, and VWoA is trying to offload them with cheap lease deals at present. I doubt they will hold the same cache or sentimental valley as the MkIV...

Westy · Jan 29, 2008

Toshi said:
blue: snow tires + chains are a lot cheaper than a 5000.

Westy: ok, torque is a very valid criticism. on the other hand, since you hit the rev limiter in 2nd gear of 6 at around 65 mph it's not debilitating -- you just need to drop down a gear or three when overtaking. good thing that it has a nice, smooth shifter.

oil consumption hasn't been bad in my post-recall engine btw, around 1 qt/3k miles.

I didn't mean it as a criticism just a personal preference. I love Mazda's approach to building fun cars and the fact that they have the balls to build a rotary engine. I had a Mazda minivan for a rental once and I thought it handled better than the majority of cars on the road.

skatetokil · Jan 29, 2008

Yeah, I covet the Mazdaspeed 3 wagon but lack adequate funding.

dexter · Jan 30, 2008

my mom has the fully loaded outback with the big boy engine and man is that thing fun to drive. fast as hell, handles great, does better than the mdx my dad has in the snow, and is pretty damn nice on the inside. gas mileage is pretty awesome as well

UiUiUiUi · Jan 30, 2008

Heath Sherratt said:
From what I understand the only awd system to rival the quatrro is the mitsubishi rally system in the EVO. What has BMW done to compare? And what are the downsides to the 07/08 Audi A4 2.0 wagons?

sorry i am not to involved with the technology of audi.
i was only speaking from personal experience comparing an Audi A6 3.0 TDI quattro with a BMW 530 xd.

on snow the bmw felt more stable and reliable in its "behaviour" then the A6 which constantly was moving from a slight understeering to oversteering and then back.

but oh well i am biased, i work for BMW. so take whatever i say with a grain of salt.

PS: should you have the opportunity try to get your hands on the new X6, it'll be available pretty soon. damn nice car

syadasti · Jan 30, 2008

UiUiUiUi said:
sorry i am not to involved with the technology of audi.
i was only speaking from personal experience comparing an Audi A6 3.0 TDI quattro with a BMW 530 xd.

on snow the bmw felt more stable and reliable in its "behaviour" then the A6 which constantly was moving from a slight understeering to oversteering and then back.

but oh well i am biased, i work for BMW. so take whatever i say with a grain of salt.

PS: should you have the opportunity try to get your hands on the new X6, it'll be available pretty soon. damn nice car

Austrian news stunt - driving a car up a ski slope to simulate no real world condition you'd encounter.

You can see the Volvo AWD barely moving the rear wheels at all when traction comes into play over momentum. The Audi does what you describe ("moving from a slight understeering to oversteering") but it makes it up the slope...

UiUiUiUi · Jan 30, 2008

honestly i never drove one of the volvo AWD cars.
so i'll keep my mouth shut about them.

you know the video is quite old (old A6, old BMWs) and the awd systems of all manufarurers there have changed a lot since then.
nevertheless a funny video.

n the end it's all about personal preference and the terrain youill use the AWD car in.

mdc · Jan 30, 2008

I've got a 05 Outback 2.5 XT wagon and love it. The 3.0 might have the same hp but just felt really slow getting up to speed compared to the 2.5 ( the 3.0 is a non turbo 6 i think). I'm hoping to keep my car for another few years although the 08 WRX STI 5 door is looking preeety sweet.

syadasti · Jan 30, 2008

UiUiUiUi said:
you know the video is quite old (old A6, old BMWs) and the awd systems of all manufarurers there have changed a lot since then.
nevertheless a funny video.

Yeah I don't see why they included a Nissan Patrol (way off in another segment) but not a Subaru (segment overlap) in the test either. They've been improving Haldex AWD systems but currently they are inferior low cost AWD systems - various Ford brands, brands GM, almost all VWs and low-end Audi. However, the 4th gen Haldex seems somewhat competent:

http://www.haldex-xwd.com/

http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/07/haldex-xwd.html

MMike · Jan 30, 2008

You should import a Skyline

syadasti · Jan 30, 2008

MMike said:
You should import a Skyline

That would be silly as the new model will be sold in the US:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_GT-R

Westy · Jan 31, 2008

Da Peach said:
No thanks. Maybe if it came in a wagon...

That would have to be a big wagon to fit a skyline inside.

Subaru? Audi? Volvo?

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