[woodsguy]

Wheel motors
Each wheel will have a small electric motor packed into it. This will eliminate the need for a transmission and differentials and will achieve perfect computer controlled traction and stability. Most of the complicated mechanicals of current automobiles will be gone. It will be just motors, batteries, steering, suspension, brakes, and HVAC. We will look back on today’s cars like we do steam locomotives. And without all these heavy, complicated systems the car will be much lighter and thus will need much less power. Each motor would only need to be about 25hp for the typical family sedan.

Charging
Along with a home charger, charging stations can be placed anywhere there is electricity. Parking garages, mall/restaurant parking lots, even parking meters so anytime you are parked you can be charging. The plug will be under the hood so the car can be left unattended without the fear of someone disconnecting it. Each charging station will be connected to a network that will automatically bill your account. A roof solar panel can also add a significant amount of charge (especially for those people in sunny states that park in the sun all day).

Batteries
The batteries will consist of two types: power and range. The more expensive power batteries will provide the massive burst needed for acceleration and the range batteries will hold much of the charge and will recharge the power batteries between accelerations. They will also be modular (about the size of paper boxes) and stored under the hood and trunk. This will allow you to customize the amount of batteries you are lugging around based on your required range and power. If you live in the city you can set up your batteries to be more power and less range. If you are in the country it would be the opposite. If you are going on a long road trip you can load up on range batteries or swap a few of them for a gasoline generator and tank (until the battery service centers are built).

Battery Service Centers
These service centers will swap out your batteries with fresh ones. The batteries will be on a lease so you can swap them at will and only pay for the batteries you are currently using. Your car’s computer will coordinate with the service center to work out the cost so you only pay for the difference in charge amount between your old batteries and the new ones.
There it is. Easy huh.

 

[skunkty14]

All well and good but if you're obtaining your charge via primarily fossil fuel based energy production all of the above is worthless. Doesn't make the car any more "green", doesn't make the energy required to run it any less expensive, doesn't reduce overall dependance on oil (domestic or foreign), really doesn't achieve anything besides being an example of technological advances which, like hybrids being sold now, are a marketing tool more than anything. All this and we haven't even touched the simple production of the batteries you mentioned which is a resource intensive, dirty industry.

It comes down to the overall footprint (ecological, resource, emissions, pick your favorite) and for the time being, fail on all points beyond showcasing technology. Sorry.

 

[stosh]

Tooooo many words for Friday morning!

 

[I.van]

All well and good but if you're obtaining your charge via primarily fossil fuel based energy production all of the above is worthless. Doesn't make the car any more "green", doesn't make the energy required to run it any less expensive, doesn't reduce overall dependance on oil (domestic or foreign), really doesn't achieve anything besides being an example of technological advances which, like hybrids being sold now, are a marketing tool more than anything. All this and we haven't even touched the simple production of the batteries you mentioned which is a resource intensive, dirty industry.

It comes down to the overall footprint (ecological, resource, emissions, pick your favorite) and for the time being, fail on all points beyond showcasing technology. Sorry.

Fossil fuel power stations powering electric cars is a more efficient and therefore less polluting way of powering a car than a standard combustion engine.

If cars stop using oil based fuels, how does this not reduce the dependence on oil?

 

[MMike]

wow....welcome to 1994!

 

[stevew]

someone got high this morning.

 

[I.van]

Charging.

Forget leaving your car plugged in for hours. That will never work in our society. Charging will hopefully end up the same as filling up with gas is now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7938001.stm

or like this

 

[MMike]

My buddy used to work for M4 technology here in montreal. I think they actually hld the patent for the motorwheel. (I could be wrong). They hold A patent for a motorwheel however.

But yes. In 1994 this was going to revolutionize everything. And while the electric motor was good, it weighed a ton. And having that much unsprung mass, at the wheel did bad things to vehicle handling. They had a modified Dodge Intrepid....and it just didn't work


http://www.tm4.com/home.aspx

 

[woodsguy]

Right, and they should have realized that the computer will always be the size of a room.

 

[jonKranked]

tl;dr


the future of the automobile is the bicycle

 

[eric strt6]

the power grid can't handle everyones AC on a hot day so where are you going to find all that extra capacity to charge everyones cars? OK so if your answer is more capacity: who has the money for all the power plants [and what type] and all the transmission lines and substations that will need to be added?

 

[MMike]

Right, and they should have realized that the computer will always be the size of a room.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying it's far from a new/original idea.

 

[MMike]

the power grid can't handle everyones AC on a hot day so where are you going to find all that extra capacity to charge everyones cars? OK so if your answer is more capacity: who has the money for all the power plants [and what type] and all the transmission lines and substations that will need to be added?

We have more electricity than we know what to do with.....

 

[jonKranked]

the power grid can't handle everyones AC on a hot day so where are you going to find all that extra capacity to charge everyones cars? OK so if your answer is more capacity: who has the money for all the power plants [and what type] and all the transmission lines and substations that will need to be added?

Warren Buffet and lil' Wayne

 

[MMike]

yet more info. Slightly newer....2004

http://www.just-auto.com/news/wheel-hub-motors-lure-new-players-to-the-automotive-industry_id75738.aspx

A Dodge Intrepid converted to use wheel motors in 1995 is still running, said Michel Lemaire, vice-president for business development at Technologies M4.

"The wheel motor itself works," he said. "The work left is basically around matching it to a specific car." Evidently Technologies M4 already has some business, as Lemaire said he was not allowed to discuss certain things.

"There is interest from various OEMs, but there are still very few concrete projects," he said. "There are companies looking at hybrid cars with an internal combustion engine powering the front wheels, and using wheel motors on the rear wheels, but there is still nothing really where we will be producing tens of thousands of wheel motors in coming years.

 

[skunkty14]

Fossil fuel power stations powering electric cars is a more efficient and therefore less polluting way of powering a car than a standard combustion engine.

I'm not an enginerd but in my anecdotal reading this is simply not the case; the inherent inefficiencies in electricity generation and distribution negate this. Someone with knowledge correct me if I'm wrong (CP?).

If cars stop using oil based fuels, how does this not reduce the dependence on oil?

Umm b/c you'll simple burn more of the fuel to produce electricity to power the vehicles? There's no free lunch.

To really weight these options you need to look at the fueling system as a whole (capture, refining, distribution costs and the efficiency of the energy generation) as well as the costs of producing the vehicle. And take tax breaks out of the equation too; just b/c the owner of an electric car or hybrid might receive a tax break someone is still paying somewhere.

 

[MMike]

This is a very complicated discussion. But the internal combustion engine is only about 20% efficient. meaning only 20% of the energy it creates is used for the propulsion of the vehicle. The rest is given off in noise and heat.

So if you run an electric motor which is in the (IIR) 80%-90% efficiency range, at least it's only the power plant that is running ineffciently. Not a bazillion internal combustion engine pissing away 80% of what it creates.

There's lots more to it, but that's sort of it, in a nutshell.

 

[C.P.]

First off, none of the changes will happen all at once, but there's enough anecdotal evidence (and growing) that electrifying our transportation sector is more efficient then burning fossil fuels. The comparisons to the environmental impact are still being assessed, and we may find that when comparing all of the oil exploration/drilling/fuel transport/tailpipe emissions etc vs all of the impact that goes into batteries/more drilling/powerplant/renewable & distributed generation, that end might be a wash or even better with all electric environmentally, and as far as individual operating and maintenance costs, it will leave each of us with a good sized economic benefit with an all electric transportation sector, elec is more efficient (see post above)..it's all pie in the sky right now, but getting momentum, so who knows in the short term.

The fact is, the electric grid is going through major investment in both controls and generation, to address efficiency requirements of past & current energy policy, and to address the future electrification of our transportation sector. Some of it includes the improving the controls that will be required to curtail demand in an automatic fashion. (Demand limiting), and already in parts of the country utility providers are automatically controlling Air conditioning in residential settings during peak demand periods. In commercial settings, major changes are being made to improve the efficiency and remote control of large buildings by both utility and third party companies.

Battery technology is undergoing huge investment, to increase battery life, charge/discharge cycles and rates so that the flow of energy is faster in both charging and discharging.

One pie in the sky idea that's getting traction, includes putting electric meters on electric cars and allowing the grid to utilize the electric fleet that is plugged in to curtail peak demand requests within the grid. This would be done by utilizing power from plugged in fleet in short, peak demand periods...and by flattening the electric demand in sectors of the grid, and controlling when cars are charging or discharging (when plugged in) the grid will be able to sustain itself better, and we can reduce the use of fast dispatch generation (utility gas turbine generators) which are not so environmentally friendly.

To me, it's a no brainer, were moving toward electrification of our transportation sector, yeah, it wont happen overnight, or in my lifetime, but it will happen.

 

[mantispf2000]

Tooooo many words for Friday morning!

ditto...........

 

[IH8Rice]

wow....welcome to 1994!

i know right.
pretty everything in the OP has already and is already been done before.

electric cars right now are stupid. the Volt cant even get the range that a G-Wiz can get.

Switching batteries or "leasing" them will never happen either for some time. the current price for a Volt's or Tesla's battery pack is ridiculous. until that monumental price comes down, that will not happen for a very long time. plus, the batteries are integral parts of the current crop of car's design.

give me a diesel any day until the electric car is viable. or better yet, a diesel hybrid.

 

[goofy]

There is one thing that is more of a marketing ploy, the Prius uses solar power for the ventilation system so it doesn't drain the battery, but I see in the future when solar technology gets better being able to have solar panels charge the car when it's parked (might take awhile). Another thing I see is place like here in DC suburbs putting solar panels on the public garages that you can plug into, operating similar to parking meters. All of this would work better in some areas than others, LA vs. Seattle.

 

[syadasti]

Gates and VK just invested 25 million in this company run by the guy involved with the development of the VW clean diesel drivetrain:

Bill Gates invests in opposing-piston engine
By Mark Kleis

EcoMotors International, a firm that is researching and developing unique opposed piston-opposed cylinder engine technology, or Opoc, has recently received a financial boost from Microsoft chairman Bill Gates and investor Vinod Khosla.

This investment not only provides EcoMotors with vital capital needed to continue the development of its unique engine technology but the engine maker also hopes that this will help to shed light on the company and its efforts to produce energy efficient engines.

Although EcoMotors is already on its sixth-generation Opoc engine, CEO Don Runkle says that some of the funding from Gates and Khosla may go towards its next-generation engine.

EcoMotors says that Opoc technology allows for 50 percent better fuel economy than a traditionally configured gasoline engine, while also utilizing 50 percent fewer parts. The net result is an engine that is less costly to produce and operate, making it a viable alternative for consumers looking to reduce fuel consumption without paying steep premiums typically associated with gas-electric hybrids or electric vehicles.

 

[Mr Jones]

Wake and Bake fo sho

 

[Toshi]

I'm not an enginerd but in my anecdotal reading this is simply not the case; the inherent inefficiencies in electricity generation and distribution negate this. Someone with knowledge correct me if I'm wrong (CP?).

http://www.cleanairnet.org/transport/1754/articles-69297_resource_1.pdf

Compare line 2 (evolved ICE) to the last line (BEVs) and you'll see that BEVs have life-cycle energy and greenhouse gas emissions advantages. If you're genuinely interested in this topic I go on quite a bit more in a blog post that I wrote a year or two back, discussing regional power generation differences among other things: http://toshiclark.xanga.com/700438627/do-electric-vehicles-make-environmental-sense/

the power grid can't handle everyones AC on a hot day so where are you going to find all that extra capacity to charge everyones cars? OK so if your answer is more capacity: who has the money for all the power plants [and what type] and all the transmission lines and substations that will need to be added?

Off-peak charging. Cheaper and plenty of capacity.

http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/faq/list/charging#/leaf-electric-car/faq/list/charging

Q: Is there a timer that allows you to set what time the charging starts and stops?A: Yes – you will be able to set a charging timer in the car. You will also be able to control the car’s functions and charging from any computer or internet-enabled phone.

 

[IH8Rice]

Off-peak charging. Cheaper and plenty of capacity.

http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/faq/list/charging#/leaf-electric-car/faq/list/charging

thats a great idea when you need it during the day.

 

[zdubyadubya]

blah blah blah

methinks you read the July issue of National Geographic.

 

[bizutch]

I just popped into this thread to give all you nerds a friggin' wedgie.

O'Doyle RULES!!!!

As an aside, google image search (even set on safe) for wedgie...not so safe for work.

 

[jimmydean]

My future:

Order should be placed next month after I test fit the 100.

 

[-BB-]

This is a very complicated discussion. But the internal combustion engine is only about 20% efficient. meaning only 20% of the energy it creates is used for the propulsion of the vehicle. The rest is given off in noise and heat.

So if you run an electric motor which is in the (IIR) 80%-90% efficiency range, at least it's only the power plant that is running ineffciently. Not a bazillion internal combustion engine pissing away 80% of what it creates.

There's lots more to it, but that's sort of it, in a nutshell.

Don't we loose something like 50% of our "energy" in tranmission though? And then on top of that there is the inefficiency of generation (maybe 80% efficient) and then your 80% efficient car...

.5*.8*.8= .32 or 32%

 

[Toshi]

Don't we loose something like 50% of our "energy" in tranmission though? And then on top of that there is the inefficiency of generation (maybe 80% efficient) and then your 80% efficient car...

.5*.8*.8= .32 or 32%

Sources for those numbers? I cited mine in post #24, and they contradict your claims. (And while you're multiplying efficiencies consider the energy involved in getting a barrel of oil from the ground to the local gas station, too.)

 

[boostindoubles]

We have more electricity than we know what to do with.....

I actually agree with MMike?

I personally want to see wood gasification make a comeback

 

[FlyinPolack]

Fossil fuel power stations powering electric cars is a more efficient and therefore less polluting way of powering a car than a standard combustion engine.

If cars stop using oil based fuels, how does this not reduce the dependence on oil?

The further a wire has to travel carrying power, the more power that is wasted.
therefore having the power plant under the hood still wastes the least power..
1+1=2

 

[Toshi]

The further a wire has to travel carrying power, the more power that is wasted.
therefore having the power plant under the hood still wastes the least power..
1+1=2

:facepalm:

1) High voltage lines minimize transmission losses.
2) Gas doesn't grow on gasoline trees outside your local Arco.

Sweet jeebus.

 

[MMike]

The further a wire has to travel carrying power, the more power that is wasted.
therefore having the power plant under the hood still wastes the least power..
1+1=2

Uh....like oh so wrongity wrong wrong.

 

[sanjuro]

What about the pollution?

From the electric car batteries?

 

[drkenan]

GW told me that switchgrass and clean coal were the future.

 

[dan-o]

GW told me that switchgrass and clean coal were the future.

They are the future.....for the switchgrass and coal industries.

 

[Toshi]

What about the pollution?

From the electric car batteries?

Post #24. Read the link.

 

[blackohio]

tell the electric companies to **** off.

http://www.bloomenergy.com/

end of story.

These really are the future of energy production for the home. No more cabled in energy, just one of these units every few houses and its a new dawn.

 

[DirtMcGirk]