[BmxConvert]

I recently went down hard on my bike leaving me with a severe concussion and torn muscles and tendons from my neck to my lower back and stuck in a neck brace until Christmas. Not only that but my frame is on its way back to foes for some extra work.

In my crash I bent both my wheels. I can fix them no problem but I think after 2 seasons its time to retire them to back up duty.
My previsous wheels were WTB SuperDuty 150x12 and 20mm hubs laced with DT Aerolite spokes to WTB Laserdisc FR rims. The wheels held up really well, even after a few race runs where a flat tire removed itself from the rim and 3/4 of the run was run on the rear rim alone. I loved the 1900g weight as well.

My quest is now for an ultimate DH wheelset to build while my bike and I are down.

Hubs: Are the quicker engagement of the I9(3*) and the King(5*) really noticable in a downhill atmosphere? I can EP Kings and WTB, and I'm not sure about the I9's. The choice is either WTB for weight or King for faster engagement.

Rims: My tires are 2.4 Telonix up front and 2.1 Tioga Factory DH out back. Is a 27/28mm rim width going to hurt my performance with a narrower DH tire? I like the Laserdisc FR's, but I've had good luck running the 28mm wide Halo Freedom disc on my freeride bike. Will sticking to a wider rim really help me performance wise?

I'll be ordering the parts for the rebuild of my bike within a week or so and I'm trying to narrow down the choices as much as possible.
I need to keep the weight down. I'm a weenie and can't toss a heavy bike so well so weight is a concern(yes, I am working out at a gym).

-Kevin

 

[iRider]

Heal up soon!

You used "Foes" and "weight weenie" in one post, don't know if they go well together!

I recently went down hard on my bike leaving me with a severe concussion and torn muscles and tendons from my neck to my lower back and stuck in a neck brace until Christmas. Not only that but my frame is on its way back to foes for some extra work.

In my crash I bent both my wheels. I can fix them no problem but I think after 2 seasons its time to retire them to back up duty.
My previsous wheels were WTB SuperDuty 150x12 and 20mm hubs laced with DT Aerolite spokes to WTB Laserdisc FR rims. The wheels held up really well, even after a few race runs where a flat tire removed itself from the rim and 3/4 of the run was run on the rear rim alone. I loved the 1900g weight as well.

My quest is now for an ultimate DH wheelset to build while my bike and I are down.

Hubs: Are the quicker engagement of the I9(3*) and the King(5*) really noticable in a downhill atmosphere? I can EP Kings and WTB, and I'm not sure about the I9's. The choice is either WTB for weight or King for faster engagement.

Rims: My tires are 2.4 Telonix up front and 2.1 Tioga Factory DH out back. Is a 27/28mm rim width going to hurt my performance with a narrower DH tire? I like the Laserdisc FR's, but I've had good luck running the 28mm wide Halo Freedom disc on my freeride bike. Will sticking to a wider rim really help me performance wise?

I'll be ordering the parts for the rebuild of my bike within a week or so and I'm trying to narrow down the choices as much as possible.
I need to keep the weight down. I'm a weenie and can't toss a heavy bike so well so weight is a concern(yes, I am working out at a gym).

-Kevin

 

[bullcrew]

If cost is an issue then go with the kings, I know cost on I9s is more than Kings. I ran 2 sets of Kings and now I9s all the way, stupid tough, light and fast engagement...........
My second choice would be kings and yes when you nee power to the ground in the rocks faster engagement is great. Corners, leaned short pedal stroke etc....
Either way get better man, Im sorry to hear about the injuries! 's up to you

 

[Transcend]

Hope Hubs, Mavic 721 rims. Cheap, strong, effective. You can run tubeless with maxxis rimstrips, stans or ghetto tubeless.

 

[DirtMcGirk]

I have Kings laced to 829's, and those bastards held up to a hell of a lot of abuse this season. Bad landings, hip slides, eating trees, bailing high in the air.

The 303 with those wheels is the best riding combo I have ever touched.

And they come in pink.

 

[BmxConvert]

Heal up soon!

You used "Foes" and "weight weenie" in one post, don't know if they go well together!

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211059

Yeah, they seem to work well together.

If cost is an issue then go with the kings, I know cost on I9s is more than Kings. I ran 2 sets of Kings and now I9s all the way, stupid tough, light and fast engagement...........
My second choice would be kings and yes when you nee power to the ground in the rocks faster engagement is great. Corners, leaned short pedal stroke etc....
Either way get better man, Im sorry to hear about the injuries! 's up to you

I know I can get kings at EP or cost which puts them above the I9's at this point. My big concern was whether or not I would even notice the faster engagement over the WTB hubs. I've ridden some trail bikes with the Kings and they are quick but I question how much they will help on my DH runs. The Kings are currently sitting at the top of the list.

-Kevin

 

[DirtyMike]

Perfect is a loaded word when talking about wheels.


Strong, Lite, Cheap


pick two.

 

[davep]

Not sure if you are looking at a 135 or 150....but I have seen several pics of the new king 150 that sets the cogs 'too' far inboard causing some chainline issues see here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=418258&highlight=king+150+hub . IMO their products are best left on XC hard tail rigs as I dont think they really understand anything else.....

If you want fast engagement and are affiliated with a shop for EP, I would look at hadley as well. The current 72 pt rear is bombproof, there are no super expensive tools needed to work on them, and the traditional pawl system has less friction than the ring drive of the king, their cassette body is Ti (not aluminum that gets wrecked on the king) and they are less expensive (and great people).

To add to that, the Hadley allows multiple axle configurations (qr, 10mm through, 10mm bolt, 12mm, 14mm, 15mm, etc) with a simple and inexpensive swap of end caps.

Hope are great hubs and are light and less $$..they just have fewer engagement points. Again if you are affiliated with a shop, just give them a call.


for rims.....721s have been in the mavic line for many many years unchanged for a reason. As Frasier mantioned, the 721s can be set up tubeless as well at a slight weight advantage to the 823. If you want a little beefier rim (tougher sidewalls) and want to take advantage of UST...look at 823s.

 

[saruti]

hope pro II with the WTB dual duty FR.
strong, light (don't know about cost.. but I had a good deal on them..)

 

[daisycutter]

You guys are slipping.

Hadley hubs with Mavic 823 rims if you like tubeless 729 rims if you don't. THis is a rock solid combo. Hope hubs are not as good quality as hadley, kk or I9s. Hadley hubs 72 pint engagment hubs are a bit cheaper then kings and I9s but every bit as good. aka the best of both worlds

 

[DirtyMike]

<snip>

If you want fast engagement and are affiliated with a shop for EP, I would look at hadley as well. The current 72 pt rear is bombproof,

You guys are slipping.

Hadley hubs with Mavic 823 rims if you like tubeless 729 rims if you don't. THis is a rock solid combo. Hope hubs are not as good quality as hadley, kk or I9s. Hadley hubs 72 pint engagment hubs are a bit cheaper then kings and I9s but every bit as good. aka the best of both worlds

DaveP got it already

 

[monkeyfcuker]

Hope Hubs, Mavic 721 rims. Cheap, strong, effective. You can run tubeless with maxxis rimstrips, stans or ghetto tubeless.

What he said, Hope products are reliable, cheap and easy to service, customer service is also excellent. Add to that they are pretty light and they win hands down.

721's are light but strong enough to take a beating and just the right side of cheap to be classed as a consumable item in my opinion.

 

[Kntr]

I9s with the new I9 rims. I just ordered a set.
Ive been on I9s with DT 5.1s and love em. The rims are a little soft but they are light.

 

[BmxConvert]

Hope hubs are NOT going on my bike. I've seen too many problems arise from people running Hope hubs. The quality is not the same as a King or even a Hadley.

The Hadleys are a so-so option. I've got some at the shop and they are pretty heavy, but I must admit they are bulletproof.

I think at this point my hubs are going to be the Kings with Aerolit spokes again. The rim, I'm not sold on the Mavics. I know tons of people run them, but there are other options out there. I'm more concerned with how widths affect the strength and ride performance of the wheel. I'll deal with specific rims later.

Thanks for the help so far.

-Kevin

 

[skiwithcharlie]

I dont think hadleys are heavier than Kings. I know for a fact the 20mm hadley hub is lighter than the king 20mm one. The rear hadley might be a touch heavier but me not 100% sure. Id go hadley over king any day.....

 

[boogenman]

DW has not invented them yet

 

[iRider]

Hope hubs are NOT going on my bike. I've seen too many problems arise from people running Hope hubs. The quality is not the same as a King or even a Hadley.

If you are talking finish quality you might be right, but the King rear hub has WAY more drag than a Hope.
Can you describe the problems with Hope hubs? Most Hope users that I know like them. Besides the freehub body getting chewed up by the cogs I haven't seen any problems with Hopes.

If your quest for the ultimate DH wheelset is just about spending ultimate amounts of money, go ahead and buy Kings. But if you want the best compromise between weight, cost and performance Hope is hard to beat. Most reliable IMO goes to Hadley and DT and lightest to Tune.

 

[Transcend]

Hope hubs are NOT going on my bike. I've seen too many problems arise from people running Hope hubs. The quality is not the same as a King or even a Hadley.

The Hadleys are a so-so option. I've got some at the shop and they are pretty heavy, but I must admit they are bulletproof.

I think at this point my hubs are going to be the Kings with Aerolit spokes again. The rim, I'm not sold on the Mavics. I know tons of people run them, but there are other options out there. I'm more concerned with how widths affect the strength and ride performance of the wheel. I'll deal with specific rims later.

Thanks for the help so far.

-Kevin

Sorry, but you are crazy. They are some of the most reliable hubs out there, as well as not incredibly overpriced. The hadley stuff my team ran ALWAYS had problems. From pawls and springs breaking, to misassembled hubs direct form the factory.

Kings are the most overpriced, overhyped products in the bike industry.

 

[davep]

Check out the link I posted for an insite to typical King 'quality'. They do have nice fit and finish, but their design/engineering not up to par IMO.


It is interesting that you have had so many problems with Hadley (I have read some of them in the past). My older pair is 5 years old, the newer pair is 2. Had a bike stollen with a set that was 4 years old. Never a single issue. I just replaced the pawl spring on the 5 y.o. set as it was starting to wear at the pawls (though still worked perfectly). A good friend has four or so sets w/o issue. His oldest is ~10 y.o. (pre SDH) and still going strong...

I do agree about the Hopes, I only wish they would put the 48 pt system of the single speed hub into the multi speed hubs.

 

[Eastern States Cup]

agreed hope hubs Mavic 721 rims and forget about it

 

[daisycutter]

their rear hubs have 48 points of engagement

 

[sstalder5]

Sunrims Rhinolite hoops laced to your favorite hubs...

the rims are indestructable and so cheap the're practically disposable. and lace them to some king hubs and you're gravy

 

[Transcend]

Sunrims Rhinolite hoops laced to your favorite hubs...

the rims are indestructable and so cheap the're practically disposable. and lace them to some king hubs and you're gravy

Cheap, soft, non-dependable rims and overpriced, overhyped hubs. Pure Genius.

 

[no skid marks]

Hope front for weight.
I9 rear unless your bike has a lot of chain growth, then possibly a lower pawled hub might be better to reduce pedal kick back, but it's probably not noticeable..
I've got a SS Hadley(speed) and a 8speed, and they're nice, 72 and 108, but I never understood the hype, they do need a fair bit of love and do wheep if neglected. and they're porkey little suckers.
Anyone run the Halos? They're packing a lot of pickups aren't they?

 

[BmxConvert]

Ok, so I suppose I should give the Hope's another look. I've had bad experiences with them on sutomers bikes in that the teeth would break off in the hub. There seem to be a ton of people running them on here and MTBR so I'll give them another look.

 

[Chaingangster]

King freehubs have a fair bit of friction/drag if you don't pop 'em open frequently. It's not that hard to do, but more maintenance than I feel like putting up with.

 

[sstalder5]

Cheap, soft, non-dependable rims and overpriced, overhyped hubs. Pure Genius.

Hey ive never had a problem with them, but i guess i'm more of a freeride guy. I mean i'm not really into the dh scene b/c i dont like spending 10s of thousands on bikes and thousands more on medical bills. but then again I'm about to drop $1,800 on a frame

 

[robert80]

Ok, so I suppose I should give the Hope's another look. I've had bad experiences with them on sutomers bikes in that the teeth would break off in the hub. There seem to be a ton of people running them on here and MTBR so I'll give them another look.

I'll add another vote for the Hope's. Among other Hope gear, I've been riding a Hope hub for 8 seasons with no problems. My Hope components have been among the most reliable that I've ridden.

 

[MrPlow]

My ultimate would have to be I9's laced to Alex Supra D's.
I had supra D's, Alpines, Hadley's in my last wheelset and I could not kill them. Plus they were pretty damn light.

 

[Damo]

My hand is up for the Hope ProII/721 wheelset.

Light, strong, well-priced and dependable.

 

[primo661]

Damo's got the right idea, cheap, lightish and very dependable.

 

[Udi]

Sorry, but you are crazy. They are some of the most reliable hubs out there, as well as not incredibly overpriced. The hadley stuff my team ran ALWAYS had problems. From pawls and springs breaking, to misassembled hubs direct form the factory. Kings are the most overpriced, overhyped products in the bike industry.

Yeah I'm with the above statements. I used to run the highest end hubs and ended up switching to hopes because I got sick of wrenching on others. I didn't know what to expect with the hopes, but I bought one set 2.5 years ago that I haven't touched, and then another set 1.5 years ago that I haven't touched either. I have a couple seasons and a lot of riding on all of them now, and they still spin smooth and work great. If they engaged a bit faster they'd be perfect, but as they are they're lighter and more reliable/durable than everything else on the market.

I used to run hadley, they definitely needed more care and attention. Main bearings die faster (stock ones are junk, aftermarket last longer), and wet weather wreaks havoc on the needle bearing if it isn't kept well lubed (which it isn't from factory). No one uses king for DH because they are usually the same story but worse (angular contact bearings in hubs = get used to tightening them all the time unless all you do is XC).

If you want two less parts to have to wrench on, get the hopes. Oh, and 721's are a bit overrated IMO. My friends have had much better luck with the Alex Supra BH and Supra D... I seem to get about 6 months out of a rear 721.

 

[BmxConvert]

Yeah I'm with the above statements. I used to run the highest end hubs and ended up switching to hopes because I got sick of wrenching on others. I didn't know what to expect with the hopes, but I bought one set 2.5 years ago that I haven't touched, and then another set 1.5 years ago that I haven't touched either. I have a couple seasons and a lot of riding on all of them now, and they still spin smooth and work great. If they engaged a bit faster they'd be perfect, but as they are they're lighter and more reliable/durable than everything else on the market.

I used to run hadley, they definitely needed more care and attention. Main bearings die faster (stock ones are junk, aftermarket last longer), and wet weather wreaks havoc on the needle bearing if it isn't kept well lubed (which it isn't from factory). No one uses king for DH because they are usually the same story but worse (angular contact bearings in hubs = get used to tightening them all the time unless all you do is XC).

If you want two less parts to have to wrench on, get the hopes. Oh, and 721's are a bit overrated IMO. My friends have had much better luck with the Alex Supra BH and Supra D... I seem to get about 6 months out of a rear 721.

I noticed that the bearings were very rough on the Hadleys that are in the shop after just a year of use. All of the kings in my town are running great. I do live in the PNW though and Once I get back on my bike I'll be riding in nasty weather all the time.

-Kevin

 

[toodles]

Like a few of the guys in here have said, I'd recommend the Hope Pro II hubs but with the Alex Supra Ds if you can get them. I've run 721s since 2003 and have just gone back to the Alex rims as they're the same weight but without the braking edge that the 721s have. On the 721s I was always bending the braking edge and you have to be very careful not to crack the rim bending it back. If you don't bend it back the tyre tends to pop it's bead very easily.

The hubs are simple, reliable, light and cheaper than King or Hadleys. I know a few people running them and none have had any problems yet. My Hadleys have been a disappointment in terms of reliability and sealing - if I hadn't payed sweet FA for them I'd be really pissed off. Haven't seen the Kings up close and personal but I'd be hard pressed to explain how they'd justify their pricing given the availability of competant alternatives for less than a 1/3 of the price.

 

[BmxConvert]

I am going to go with the ProII's in red, 150x12 rear, 110x20 front.
Black DT Swiss Aerolite spokes, red alloy nipples.
Bontrager King Earl rims. I know it's not what everyone recomends but they hold up great. I've got a complete set of King Earl wheels in addition to my Superduty/aerolite/Laser disc wheels. At 530g each I get the weight of the Laserdisc FR, but the 31/2mm width.

EP'ing the Hope's will alloy me to add a Ti spring to my Curnutt while the frame/shock are at Foes.

-Kevin

 

[toodles]

Sounds nice but I reckon brass nipples are better really. Kinda boring but they hold up a million times longer

 

[BmxConvert]

I use 4 sided spoke wrenches, spoke freeze, a tensiometer and slick honey on nipple to rim contacts for 2+ years on a few different wheels and never twisted, stripped or broke a nipple running alloy nipples.

-Kevin

 

[toodles]

Ah true...

Yeah well I'm a lazy hack so I need bits that are more forgiving. If you've had no issues with the alloys then go for it.

 

[Prettym1k3]

My Mavic 521's laced to King Hubs are the most awesome wheels I've ever ridden.

 

[Zark]

Hadley or I9 on the hubs. I have both and don't really notice a big difference between 72 and 120 engagement points, but notice a big difference between 72 and 36 (hope hubs)

Rims? Is there any choice but Mavic? Not in my opinion! 823's for tubeless, 721's for tubed weight weenie, 729's for bashers.