Tomac 2007
- Thread starter zmtber
- Start date
What size is it?
Johnny T was also a top roadie for Motorola (previously US Postal Service, and now Discovery), and was the USCF National Crit Champ in 88. Oh yeah, he won a silver medal in the 91 DH Worlds racing with road/drop bars!
From the article:
" But making custom frames and bikes is a very tough and competitive business. Many have tried and failed, and if succeeds maybe one of the big guys (like Trek) will buy him out and they will be set for life or ride the waves to the end, Rodenburg said. "
Didn't Tomac get bought by Litespeed? Did they give up or sell the rights to Joel Smith?
Joel Smith bought the rights I think...good on him!
Are some of these guys serious in that they don"t know who Tomac is? If you don"t know who Tomac is you should stop riding your bike!
Are some of these guys serious in that they don"t know who Tomac is? If you don"t know who Tomac is you should stop riding your bike!
L
luelling
Guest
LOL....and like the DH-6 and DH-8. It is the same design but Rotec used the original concept on the design (bottom bracket pivot), but the first tomac and Rotec share the same floating shock design. I had a chance to parking lot test a Rotec and it felt amazing, I can imagine it being killer on the trail.
Mert IS the man....I bet he could take DW in a fight. haha
They are likely the same kind of folks who don't know who Joel Smith's dad is.
L
luelling
Guest
Well hell, fill us in. Do I know who Tomac is? Yes, I've shaken hands with him several times and I have his autograph (I know I'm a dork). Is his oldman Lawwill or does he have some practical MX experience?
A fella named Malcolm Smith (Moose, MSR etc...) He co-starred in "On Any Sunday" with Lawill and Steve McQueen. He has plenty of experience in warehousing and asian sourcing. I doubt he is financially involved with the brand, but he sure would be a good guy to have on your side. Plus, he is about as OG as it comes these days in the offroad racing scene.
Velonews has these pics of the XC and AM bikes. Really surprising how bad these look. Flexing carbon stays with single pivot linkage a la the old Fisher Sugar design, and what's going on with that big chunk of ugly around the BB?
No DH bike yet, but this teaser...
No DH bike yet, but this teaser...
Hello. This is Joel Smith from Tomac. I just saw the post on the new DH bike. Someone did some good sleuthing to find that photo.
So, the new DH bike...It's a single pivot, but it's not a "simple" single pivot. There's linkage that's activating the shock. The linkage, wheel path, and leverage ratio are all based off Johnny's old Magnum 204 that he raced the last few years of his career. But, the travel has been extended to 220mm (the bike is designed around a 200mm fork, but since you run more sag in the rear, it will net the same positive travel once sagged is set correctly, so you will get a balance ride).
The goal with the bike was multi-fold. Obviously we wanted to make a smoking DH race/freeride bike, but we also wanted to stiffen the overall bike and standardize parts. It will have a standard cranks, bottom bracket, chain guide and rear hub. If you know much about the old Magnum, all of these items were custom, hard to find and expensive.
You see if the photo we have triangulated the front and rear triangles for stiffness and the chainstay yoke is pretty massive. There are some other features for stiffness, but I want to leave some surprises until the end.
The green is one of two colors, the other being ano black. Let me know what you think about that. Colors are not a done deal.
The bike is still in development, but we should have it to market before the end of summer.
Lastly, and the coolest thing, is that the bike was designed by Doug Bradbury!
So, the new DH bike...It's a single pivot, but it's not a "simple" single pivot. There's linkage that's activating the shock. The linkage, wheel path, and leverage ratio are all based off Johnny's old Magnum 204 that he raced the last few years of his career. But, the travel has been extended to 220mm (the bike is designed around a 200mm fork, but since you run more sag in the rear, it will net the same positive travel once sagged is set correctly, so you will get a balance ride).
The goal with the bike was multi-fold. Obviously we wanted to make a smoking DH race/freeride bike, but we also wanted to stiffen the overall bike and standardize parts. It will have a standard cranks, bottom bracket, chain guide and rear hub. If you know much about the old Magnum, all of these items were custom, hard to find and expensive.
You see if the photo we have triangulated the front and rear triangles for stiffness and the chainstay yoke is pretty massive. There are some other features for stiffness, but I want to leave some surprises until the end.
The green is one of two colors, the other being ano black. Let me know what you think about that. Colors are not a done deal.
The bike is still in development, but we should have it to market before the end of summer.
Lastly, and the coolest thing, is that the bike was designed by Doug Bradbury!
Yikes, Joel from Tomac again. Just saw the comment about how bad the bikes look. Bummer you think that, but at least let me give you the technical reason behind the designs.
I agree that the Trek and Fisher carbon flex stay bikes totally sucked, but there is good reason to go with a flex stay instead of a pivot. First off, carbon fiber is a great material for flexing in this manner because it has an infinite fatigue life. Secondly, there is very little movement there (3 degrees and 5 degrees on the XC and trail bikes respectively). The benefit you get to eliminating the pivot is a dramatic increase in rear end stiffness. When you put a pivot there, you are just putting a flex point out at the end of a big lever arm. When you eliminate the flex point, and use a short link like we have, you make a very stiff rear end. Also, it's a very light way to make a bike.
Also, the reason the Treks didn't work was not because of the carbon flex stay, but because of the poor wheel path and leverage ratio of the rear end. At my former job at Manitou, we did a lot of work analyzing these factors, as did David Earle (fomer director of engineering at Santa Cruz and Snyper and Carbide designer) and the two bikes are the result of the best combination possible. In addition, we did custom shocks with Fox to maximize the ride character.
The reason for the low forward link mount is because it allows you to make the front triangle very tight and thus increase front end stiffness. The bike is designed to be stiff and light.
We did a lot of ride testing against competitor's bikes, and I think you will be mightily impressed with the performance of the bikes. At Sea Otter, we had a lot of very experienced journos ride the bikes and I think that is what impressed them the most: the performance.
I agree that the Trek and Fisher carbon flex stay bikes totally sucked, but there is good reason to go with a flex stay instead of a pivot. First off, carbon fiber is a great material for flexing in this manner because it has an infinite fatigue life. Secondly, there is very little movement there (3 degrees and 5 degrees on the XC and trail bikes respectively). The benefit you get to eliminating the pivot is a dramatic increase in rear end stiffness. When you put a pivot there, you are just putting a flex point out at the end of a big lever arm. When you eliminate the flex point, and use a short link like we have, you make a very stiff rear end. Also, it's a very light way to make a bike.
Also, the reason the Treks didn't work was not because of the carbon flex stay, but because of the poor wheel path and leverage ratio of the rear end. At my former job at Manitou, we did a lot of work analyzing these factors, as did David Earle (fomer director of engineering at Santa Cruz and Snyper and Carbide designer) and the two bikes are the result of the best combination possible. In addition, we did custom shocks with Fox to maximize the ride character.
The reason for the low forward link mount is because it allows you to make the front triangle very tight and thus increase front end stiffness. The bike is designed to be stiff and light.
We did a lot of ride testing against competitor's bikes, and I think you will be mightily impressed with the performance of the bikes. At Sea Otter, we had a lot of very experienced journos ride the bikes and I think that is what impressed them the most: the performance.
Someone asked if my dad, Malcolm Smith, is financially involved. The answer is yes. It's a family business.
Hello. This is Joel Smith from Tomac. I just saw the post on the new DH bike. Someone did some good sleuthing to find that photo.
So, the new DH bike...It's a single pivot, but it's not a "simple" single pivot. There's linkage that's activating the shock. The linkage, wheel path, and leverage ratio are all based off Johnny's old Magnum 204 that he raced the last few years of his career. But, the travel has been extended to 220mm (the bike is designed around a 200mm fork, but since you run more sag in the rear, it will net the same positive travel once sagged is set correctly, so you will get a balance ride).
The goal with the bike was multi-fold. Obviously we wanted to make a smoking DH race/freeride bike, but we also wanted to stiffen the overall bike and standardize parts. It will have a standard cranks, bottom bracket, chain guide and rear hub. If you know much about the old Magnum, all of these items were custom, hard to find and expensive.
You see if the photo we have triangulated the front and rear triangles for stiffness and the chainstay yoke is pretty massive. There are some other features for stiffness, but I want to leave some surprises until the end.
The green is one of two colors, the other being ano black. Let me know what you think about that. Colors are not a done deal.
The bike is still in development, but we should have it to market before the end of summer.
Lastly, and the coolest thing, is that the bike was designed by Doug Bradbury!
So, the new DH bike...It's a single pivot, but it's not a "simple" single pivot. There's linkage that's activating the shock. The linkage, wheel path, and leverage ratio are all based off Johnny's old Magnum 204 that he raced the last few years of his career. But, the travel has been extended to 220mm (the bike is designed around a 200mm fork, but since you run more sag in the rear, it will net the same positive travel once sagged is set correctly, so you will get a balance ride).
The goal with the bike was multi-fold. Obviously we wanted to make a smoking DH race/freeride bike, but we also wanted to stiffen the overall bike and standardize parts. It will have a standard cranks, bottom bracket, chain guide and rear hub. If you know much about the old Magnum, all of these items were custom, hard to find and expensive.
You see if the photo we have triangulated the front and rear triangles for stiffness and the chainstay yoke is pretty massive. There are some other features for stiffness, but I want to leave some surprises until the end.
The green is one of two colors, the other being ano black. Let me know what you think about that. Colors are not a done deal.
The bike is still in development, but we should have it to market before the end of summer.
Lastly, and the coolest thing, is that the bike was designed by Doug Bradbury!
Good info- thanks. I kind of like the looks of the new frames. It's odd, but I think it'll grow on me.
I always liked Tomac. I worked for a Tomac dealer a couple years ago and always had a soft spot for the 204 and the Buckshot hardtail. I did own a post-Lawill 204 for a while (frame cracked eventually) and I really liked it. If it were a little lighter, had a standard rear wheel and a slightly slacker head angle, it would have been a truly awesome race bike (instead, it was just really good). The suspension design on it was very good. I've owned a few similar linkage single pivots and I think it's a great design. The 204 always had a very controlled suspension action even with a shock like the Vanilla RC.
I always liked Tomac. I worked for a Tomac dealer a couple years ago and always had a soft spot for the 204 and the Buckshot hardtail. I did own a post-Lawill 204 for a while (frame cracked eventually) and I really liked it. If it were a little lighter, had a standard rear wheel and a slightly slacker head angle, it would have been a truly awesome race bike (instead, it was just really good). The suspension design on it was very good. I've owned a few similar linkage single pivots and I think it's a great design. The 204 always had a very controlled suspension action even with a shock like the Vanilla RC.
I've got some pretty sexy photos of the bikes sitting on the cliffs over Monterey if anyone wants another look. Just e-mail me at jsmith@tomac.com.
Saw the pics of the new bikes this weekend, I am in love. Joel Smith and Johnny T making bikes...I do not think it can get better than that.
I really hope this venture takes off like it should, too many lame bikes out there and too many goons making them. This is a good dose of nostalgia and knowledge that the industry needed.
I really hope this venture takes off like it should, too many lame bikes out there and too many goons making them. This is a good dose of nostalgia and knowledge that the industry needed.
i was bummed i wasn't able to stop by & check out the new bikes. i was a bit busy & stressed out this weekend.
i've always been a huge fan of Jonny T, Bradbury, & their bikes...plus it's just cool to see new product! especially since they aren't the "cookie-cutter" style bikes a lot of new companies produce. can't wait to see the new bikes in action! congrats on the Re-launch!
i've always been a huge fan of Jonny T, Bradbury, & their bikes...plus it's just cool to see new product! especially since they aren't the "cookie-cutter" style bikes a lot of new companies produce. can't wait to see the new bikes in action! congrats on the Re-launch!
let me give you a "hell yeah" to that sentiment!
You know they say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Well, when you win double World Championships in DH, we should all kneel down and worship the Sunday! Has another brand won two World Championships in the same year?
L
luelling
Guest
I can't think of any other brand than Sunn
Ya, Sunn is it...although we almost stopped that in 96'
Cairns World Championship
1 Anna-Caroline Chausson FRA 5:27.58
2 Leigh Donovan USA +00.18
Argh!
Cairns World Championship
1 Anna-Caroline Chausson FRA 5:27.58
2 Leigh Donovan USA +00.18
Argh!
^Actually, i think Nico road for GT perhaps, I forget, that week in Cairns was all a blur to me.
So I think IH might hold the title as only dual winner at a WC's.
Or maybe later on 98' or something they both rode for sun...at Mt St anne?
So I think IH might hold the title as only dual winner at a WC's.
Or maybe later on 98' or something they both rode for sun...at Mt St anne?
I (and I'm sure everybody else) would love to see you post them here.
It's great to have you on board, welcome and I hope you'll stick around. I think you'll find that people really, really appreciate having a manufacturer supporting their bikes like that (transition, iron horse come to mind).
Just out of curiosity, what happened to the lawill patent? Did you have to liscense it? Did you opt out of liscensing it this round? I ask because I loved that original 204, and the yeti, and the schwinn...but I remember seeing that low-slung 204 in Dirt magazine in early 98 and I thought it was the coolest looking bike ever.
Here are those photos.
DH bike photo to come at some point.
Doug and Johnny gave up on the Lawwill pretty quickly because they had some major difficulties getting it to work properly and hold together. It did look bitchen though.
Where is the list of World Champs? I can't find it for the life of me.
DH bike photo to come at some point.
Doug and Johnny gave up on the Lawwill pretty quickly because they had some major difficulties getting it to work properly and hold together. It did look bitchen though.
Where is the list of World Champs? I can't find it for the life of me.
Stik,
Weren't Brian and Leigh double DH National Champions on Outland-bikes with Mongoose stickers? It seems like a distance memory now.
Joel
Weren't Brian and Leigh double DH National Champions on Outland-bikes with Mongoose stickers? It seems like a distance memory now.
Joel
Joel,
Here's the links to the UCI past results:
Men's: http://www.uci.ch/modello.asp?1stlevelid=F&level1=1&level2=3&idnews=1917
Women's:
http://www.uci.ch/modello.asp?1stlevelid=F&level1=1&level2=3&idnews=1918
-ska todd
Here's the links to the UCI past results:
Men's: http://www.uci.ch/modello.asp?1stlevelid=F&level1=1&level2=3&idnews=1917
Women's:
http://www.uci.ch/modello.asp?1stlevelid=F&level1=1&level2=3&idnews=1918
-ska todd
They won all 4 titles in 95...then in 96' on the outland bikes I know leigh won both DH and slalom again, and I think lopes won one or the other-like you...then they won again and again but I can't remember the years they BOTH won titles- its too long ago and I can not remember haha
(Joel, the pic is not appearing that u posted)
It's good to have the Tomac brand back. The bikes look pretty nice I didn't like the look of them to start with but hte more I look at them the more I want one!!
Can't wait to try one out.
Can't wait to try one out.
it must take serious stones to put those pretty bikes so close to that cliff edge. What's keeping them from falling over anyway? Did you just photoshop out the guy that's holdin it?
seriously though, the bikes look totally awesome. really really well thought out.even the cable routing is good. a plus, can't wait to see one in person.
seriously though, the bikes look totally awesome. really really well thought out.even the cable routing is good. a plus, can't wait to see one in person.