[yearoftiger]

hi,
i am doing research and was wondering how good a tomac magnum 204 frame is. i know it's more of a dh racing frame, but how well would it run for free riding and all that stuff?? how does this frame compare with a 2003 giant dh? Some info/opinions on the 204 would be greatly appreciated. thanx

 

[lovebunny]

its heavy but it handles like its on raills because all the weight is near the bb. i almost bought one back in december but i opted for a bb7 instead.

 

[Pau11y]

hi,
i am doing research and was wondering how good a tomac magnum 204 frame is. i know it's more of a dh racing frame, but how well would it run for free riding and all that stuff?? how does this frame compare with a 2003 giant dh? Some info/opinions on the 204 would be greatly appreciated. thanx

I've got a mid-term to deal w/ today, but I'll answer any question you have tomorrow. Mine is a fresh build so I can fill you in on that aspect of things. Partsbara has been riding one for a while. He should chime in here sometime and fill you in on ride of the bike. Keep in mind, I think he's running an Avy on the back which is much better than the stock Fox RC. I got my hands on a 5th w/ a Ti spring (in the process of trading for a lighter weight 550 - 350). I don't know what fork he's running, but the Mr Dirt I have is kind of a one-off - it has compression dampening. There are several other guys who ride that frame that loiter here a lot as well.
Here's my build:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/mountain-bike-photos/showphoto.php/photo/1922/sort/1/cat/all/page/1
One thing you'll want to keep in mind is that rear hub. If you go floater (http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111647), you should think about going Hadley instead of keeping the Edco. Also, do a search as I've been posting since Dec. on my build and some issues I've had.

Edit: as for the weight, mine is coming in well over 50#s. That Mr Dirt doesn't help things at all w/ over 2 cups of oil in both legs and no plastic parts at all (except a bushing in each leg).

 

[JRogers]

I have a 204 and I have posted my thoughts on it a few times here. A quick search would probably turn up some useful info. I don't feel like searching or typing it all out again but here are the basics:

Overall, the frame is great. Really nice progressive suspension, high quality manufacturing and durable pivots and links. Steep headangle could be good or bad. It is heavy, no way around that, but has a low CG. Stiff due to beefy construction and wide BB and hub. However, these two features limit BB and hub choice. The rear hub is the biggest weak point in the frame and design, I think. It's okay but not particularly great, durable or easy to get parts for. I think you also have to run a decent size ring so that the chain does not rub on the swingarm. Sizing is a bit funky; the frames run big. I am 5'10" or so (maybe a bit less) and run a small, which, to me, seems comparable to my old medium Bullit.

 

[fatguysmiling]

Why size hub does the 204 use?

Simon

 

[James | Go-Ride]

I liked my 204 a lot. Really a lot. It only had two minor problems: the only hub available for the bike was the Edco, which wasn't a bad hub by itself but they tend to blow up after a few years of hard use and there are no service parts available . . . basically to get the hub fixed you had to send it to Switzerland. The other thing was the lack of ISCG tabs and the resulting difficulty a bunch of people had trying to get the right lateral spacing so that the guide wouldn't rub on the swingarm, and the cranks wouldn't rub on the BB cups. I believe the hub is a 165mm, but it has a weird offset that works with the asymmetrical swingarm on the 204.

 

[partsbara]

i d say do a search to begin with... yeah, like people say the hub can be a problem... but i have had luck finding parts (particularly - the freehub body) direct from tomac... they are about 50 bucks...

i ve had one go out and it was replaced and ran well for about 2 years... we had some pretty sick mud here in europe last year and when i picked up my bike from it s hibernation period the thing had gone out again... spin the cranks and she d just spin and go no-where.... seems to have come good again... most importantly you need to use a very light grease - almost heavy oil to keep the things working... a heavy grease just gunks it up and ya fvcked...

like the other who have ridden / owned these bikes, i love mine as well.. mine weighs in around 47lb now since it s winter make over... i m running an 05 888 now instead of the 02 monster... lost the profiles/mr dirt as well in favour of some holzfellers/e13...

here is mine...

http://www.b40huckers.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=topn&cat=0&pos=3

if ya have any specific questions fire away

later

partsbara

 

[JRogers]

i d say do a search to begin with... yeah, like people say the hub can be a problem... but i have had luck finding parts (particularly - the freehub body) direct from tomac... they are about 50 bucks...

i ve had one go out and it was replaced and ran well for about 2 years... we had some pretty sick mud here in europe last year and when i picked up my bike from it s hibernation period the thing had gone out again... spin the cranks and she d just spin and go no-where.... seems to have come good again... most importantly you need to use a very light grease - almost heavy oil to keep the things working... a heavy grease just gunks it up and ya fvcked...

like the other who have ridden / owned these bikes, i love mine as well.. mine weighs in around 47lb now since it s winter make over... i m running an 05 888 now instead of the 02 monster... lost the profiles/mr dirt as well in favour of some holzfellers/e13...

here is mine...

http://www.b40huckers.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=topn&cat=0&pos=3

if ya have any specific questions fire away

later

partsbara

So, did you replace the hub parts after this time it would just spin or before? I did a really disgusting, muddy, freezing race back a few months ago and I vaguely remember that when I went to clean the bike, the cranks just spun. A little while later, it seemed to ahve fixed itself. Is this something to worry about? BTW, I have no idea how to work on this hub; do you have any quick or general directions so I can at least get the thing apart and clean it?

 

[denjen]

Links fore the hub
http://www.thorusa.com/edco.htm
http://www.thorusa.com/bigrock135mm.jpg

The hub is fairly easy to take apart if you have the patience for it.

As for the frame it is super burly and over built. But once you get it up to speed is where it shines, the faster you let it go the better it handles.

 

[partsbara]

So, did you replace the hub parts after this time it would just spin or before? I did a really disgusting, muddy, freezing race back a few months ago and I vaguely remember that when I went to clean the bike, the cranks just spun. A little while later, it seemed to ahve fixed itself. Is this something to worry about? BTW, I have no idea how to work on this hub; do you have any quick or general directions so I can at least get the thing apart and clean it?

the freehub body was replaced once before this... seems to me that when the new freehub body was put on the german bike shop that did it used grease that was a little to thick... i told him to replace it using only a very thin grease, but whatever.. after sittin for the winter in the cold shed it just spun and didn t engage.. a little time on it and it seemed to catch again.. now it s fine but i ordered a new F/H body just incase... in my experience this seems to be the weakest link of the hub...

 

[Pau11y]

Links fore the hub
http://www.thorusa.com/edco.htm
http://www.thorusa.com/bigrock135mm.jpg

The hub is fairly easy to take apart if you have the patience for it.

As for the frame it is super burly and over built. But once you get it up to speed is where it shines, the faster you let it go the better it handles.

A note on the rear hub that's shipping w/ the 204s Pre-owned bikes are clearing out (a part of American Bicycle Group which owns Tomac). It seems to be different than the one in the above exploded diagram. It's still called the BigRock, but mine is 90mm flange to flange, 153mm face to face and uses a 12mm axle which then steps to 20mm at the dropout. The cassette body can be removed by hand and you can swap cassette in 3 seconds once the wheel is removed. The hub is 0 dish and uses shortened rotor bolts (about 1/2 the length).
When I ordered my Floater, Brian told me he offeres a Hadley hub w/ his floater which I think is a 150mmx12mm. So, if you use a floater, there are options in rear hubs. I opt'd to stick w/ the Edcos as I got my hands on 2 of these mutant BigRocks. I can't see the point of faileur w/ this one, with the exception of paw engagement machined directly into the hub shell.

 

[yearoftiger]

thanx for all the info guys...very helpful. anyone know how the tomac compares with the 03 giant dh?? trying to decide which is better

 

[Woodaba]

i know a kid who has one of these frames, is so rad. it corners amazing couse of the super low standover and bottom bracket hieght and with the 20mm through axle. the frame feels really stiff and solid. i would say go with the tomac it would be a better freeride bike that the giant cause it is burly and can take 3x more abuse than a giant. thats just my oppinion but its your decision.

 

[CharlieM]

:mumble: Tomac is bad news....

 

[James | Go-Ride]

:mumble: Tomac is bad news....

Any substance to back that up? We're not carrying them anymore but it's not because the company was lacking, it's because they stopped making a true DH bike.

 

[Pau11y]

:mumble: Tomac is bad news....

I don't want to use the term noobee, but it does look like you're pretty new at this. So, here's some constructive criticisms for your comment:
Blanket statements like the one you made w/o supporting info doesn't do anyone any good. Elaborate on this and tell us why you feel this way. You may have info we don't. Share the wealth man!

 

[k9handler]

I don't want to use the term noobee, but it does look like you're pretty new at this. So, here's some constructive criticisms for your comment:
Blanket statements like the one you made w/o supporting info doesn't do anyone any good. Elaborate on this and tell us why you feel this way. You may have info we don't. Share the wealth man!

I think it's because he has been overtaken going down the mountain a few times by guys on the Tomac.

 

[Pau11y]

I think it's because he has been overtaken going down the mountain a few times by guys on the Tomac.

BAHH, harsh!
I built mine w/o even riding one. Low CG/BB, long and steep head angle (corrected w/ a HUGE fork), heavy but manageable at speed, just sounds like too much fun

 

[CharlieM]

I bought a frame from Tomac in early 2004 for what they called a good deal. $800 plus shipping. The rep I talked to was Steve Dunn and to him he practically hooked me up with a killer frame. They sent me the Frame and rear hub for this price.
As I was progressively building the bike up I noticed that the disk was not lining up with the brake caliper. It was rubbing badly. So, I called the company and they did not know what to do. They explained to me that I was doing something wrong. I rechecked everything and lined the axle up perfectly but the brake was rubbing badly. Then, I began to grind down on the adaptor to move the brake caliper over. After grinding for a while I realized that it needed to move over further. Then, I called the company again and explained to them what was happening. After scratching their heads for a while and putting me off for a week they finaly called me back to tell me that I had the wrong brake adaptor. They told me the part number for an adaptor to replace my old one. I found the adaptor on the internet and found out that it was the same exact adaptor as my previous one. ???? So I called the company back and they assurred me that it was the adaptor.
So, I bought a brand new Hope Mono 4 to fit onto the bike. The brand new brake did not fit also. Surely it wasn't a set of bad brakes. It too also rubbed really bad, almost to the point where the wheel could not spin. Fed up with the bike and the company I called them back and they again scratched their heads and told me to send the bike into the company.
So I paid for the shipping to send my bike back to the company. Two weeks later I got a call from the company and they told me that they couldn't figure out what the problem was with the brake situation and that they were going to send it to the tech center to see if they can fix it. Sometime later I got another call from the company and they told me that they sent me the wrong size hub with the frame. I got the frame back a week later in the mail. Come to find out they relaced the wheel with a cheap noname rim and left my singletrack rim set aside. They also forgot to repack the axle in the box.
As soon as I got the bike back I sold it on ebay and then called up a friend and got a brand new SGS Ironhorse frame for $540.

I didn't have much luck with the company but maybe you will.

Cheers

 

[Pau11y]

I bought a frame from Tomac in early 2004 for what they called a good deal. $800 plus shipping. The rep I talked to was Steve Dunn and to him he practically hooked me up with a killer frame. They sent me the Frame and rear hub for this price.
As I was progressively building the bike up I noticed that the disk was not lining up with the brake caliper. It was rubbing badly. So, I called the company and they did not know what to do. They explained to me that I was doing something wrong. I rechecked everything and lined the axle up perfectly but the brake was rubbing badly. Then, I began to grind down on the adaptor to move the brake caliper over. After grinding for a while I realized that it needed to move over further. Then, I called the company again and explained to them what was happening. After scratching their heads for a while and putting me off for a week they finaly called me back to tell me that I had the wrong brake adaptor. They told me the part number for an adaptor to replace my old one. I found the adaptor on the internet and found out that it was the same exact adaptor as my previous one. ???? So I called the company back and they assurred me that it was the adaptor.
So, I bought a brand new Hope Mono 4 to fit onto the bike. The brand new brake did not fit also. Surely it wasn't a set of bad brakes. It too also rubbed really bad, almost to the point where the wheel could not spin. Fed up with the bike and the company I called them back and they again scratched their heads and told me to send the bike into the company.
So I paid for the shipping to send my bike back to the company. Two weeks later I got a call from the company and they told me that they couldn't figure out what the problem was with the brake situation and that they were going to send it to the tech center to see if they can fix it. Sometime later I got another call from the company and they told me that they sent me the wrong size hub with the frame. I got the frame back a week later in the mail. Come to find out they relaced the wheel with a cheap noname rim and left my singletrack rim set aside. They also forgot to repack the axle in the box.
As soon as I got the bike back I sold it on ebay and then called up a friend and got a brand new SGS Ironhorse frame for $540.

I didn't have much luck with the company but maybe you will.

Cheers

Yup, Tomac support might be an issue. I think everyone who knows anything about this frame has moved on in their careers. My experiences have been they are very courteous, but no knowledge base. For example, I was wanting to get a spec on paper of the leverage ratio to calc spring weight. All they were able to come up w/ is to get the ratio from shock spec (2.75") calc'd against actual travel (8"). But to my knowledge, the Fox Vanilla RC spec'd on that frame in a 8.785" length had a travel of 2.785", and not 2.75" (the number they used to calc leverage ratio.
I went around the rear brake issue w/ the floater. There were issues there too, but nothing unsolvable. There was a Q factor issue w/ the crank spindle (the dist of pedal/crank interface off the centerline of the bikes' long axis). The asym rear triangle and width needed for a Profile crankset proved difficult to find. I had one custom made at some expense to solve this. But Partsbara used a 148mm ISIS Truvative BB w/ a set of Holz and E13 CG, and only had a 0.25" difference between the right and left side.
Lastly, the steepness of the headtube might be an issue. Partsbara is using a pair of 888, which sits pretty tall. I'm using a pair of Mr Dirt which also sits really high. This also raises the BB and center of gravity a bit. But dial in your rear to race soft and it'll sag to compensate.

Big post, sorry for the long read.

 

[konastab01]

Any substance to back that up? We're not carrying them anymore but it's not because the company was lacking, it's because they stopped making a true DH bike.

totally agree with james they did stop making a true dh bike and move have a ****ter as i would call it

 

[mack]

:mumble: Tomac is bad news....

What you talkin bout Wilis!?


This sums up the Tomac...

 

[James | Go-Ride]

BAHH, harsh!
I built mine w/o even riding one. Low CG/BB, long and steep head angle (corrected w/ a HUGE fork), heavy but manageable at speed, just sounds like too much fun

Interesting, my '02 Medium had a mega-slack head angle, I think I was still at about 65' with my Shiver, and was floating around 63.5 with my S8.

 

[JRogers]

If that's the case, then they must have changed the geo dramatically. I think in the last two years they had a 68 deg. HA. I know with a Shiver, mine is pretty steep. Definitely moreso than most other DH frames out there.

 

[Fulton]

204's are badass, Id be riding one if you could fit a smaller chainring on'em. They feel super solid. Unfortunately, every rep from American Bicycle Company, or whatever the parent company is, has been a major prick.

 

[Pau11y]

204's are badass, Id be riding one if you could fit a smaller chainring on'em. They feel super solid. Unfortunately, every rep from American Bicycle Company, or whatever the parent company is, has been a major prick.

I haven't experienced this at all, at least not w/ Matt Conto from Pre Owned, apart of American Bike Group. Dealing w/ him has been nothing but a pleasure (anyone from Tomac reading this...KEEP HIM AROUND, HE'S AN ASSET). When he fwd me to Tomac support, I did got the feeling that the guys from Tomac support were a bit snooty. It almost felt like the guy that help'd me w/ leverage ratio was talking down to me. So, to deal w/ him, I made him run around a bit (asked for design specs on paper) and talked above him. Support guys don't like it when you know more than they do...hehe Basis for this opinion was made from 2 calls to Tomac support and may not be the case for everyone there.

*don't have spell check on this machine so sorry for the bad spelling.

 

[partsbara]

I haven't experienced this at all, at least not w/ Matt Conto from Pre Owned, apart of American Bike Group. Dealing w/ him has been nothing but a pleasure (anyone from Tomac reading this...KEEP HIM AROUND, HE'S AN ASSET). When he fwd me to Tomac support, I did got the feeling that the guys from Tomac support were a bit snooty. It almost felt like the guy that help'd me w/ leverage ratio was talking down to me. So, to deal w/ him, I made him run around a bit (asked for design specs on paper) and talked above him. Support guys don't like it when you know more than they do...hehe Basis for this opinion was made from 2 calls to Tomac support and may not be the case for everyone there.

*don't have spell check on this machine so sorry for the bad spelling.

chris @ tomac has always been helpful to me... i dunno if he is still around tho'... james, your 204 was black yeah ??? isn t black the 01 model ??? mine is black and the HA is pretty steep as well...

it s a kick ass bike, can t wait to get on it when the weather improves

 

[James | Go-Ride]

204's are badass, Id be riding one if you could fit a smaller chainring on'em. They feel super solid. Unfortunately, every rep from American Bicycle Company, or whatever the parent company is, has been a major prick.

Eh, I put a 38t on mine intially and eventually went to a 40, I would have gone to a 42 but I didn't want to put a whole new guide on the bike. They pedal a lot better with the ring more in line with the pivot.

 

[partsbara]

Eh, I put a 38t on mine intially and eventually went to a 40, I would have gone to a 42 but I didn't want to put a whole new guide on the bike. They pedal a lot better with the ring more in line with the pivot.

42 on mine... pedals pretty well with the avy... seems to settle into the travel a bit and bob is pretty non existant / not noticable... paully - go buy an avalanche for the thing NOW

 

[James | Go-Ride]

chris @ tomac has always been helpful to me... i dunno if he is still around tho'... james, your 204 was black yeah ??? isn t black the 01 model ??? mine is black and the HA is pretty steep as well...

it s a kick ass bike, can t wait to get on it when the weather improves

Yeah, mine was an '01 but (from the mouth of our outside rep and our inside sales guy at the time, neither of whose names I can remember at the moment) there were no changes to geometry between '01 and '02, just paint. I was running a Mich 2.8 up front and had the fork up in the tubes a bit as well, I suppose with a bit lower fork a 66' or 67' head angle wouldn't be unusual.

 

[mack]

id like to have one, just to spice things up. Any one want to trade for a 02 team giant DH?

new frames are always fun.

 

[partsbara]

id like to have one, just to spice things up. Any one want to trade for a 02 team giant DH?

new frames are always fun.

no thanks

BLACKENED !!!!!!

 

[Pau11y]

paully - go buy an avalanche for the thing NOW

I was gonna hit up NeverSummerSnow for his and have it resized and valved. But, he sold it before I could get an offer out. Oh well. I'm in the process of getting a lighter spring for the 5th on there, and use the dampening to get the ass-end "stuck" to the ground. And, I finally got a worthy front end w/ a Frankenstein'd Mr Dirt. I'm sure an Avy or two will come up here sooner or later. I'll jump on one of those if the 5th doesn't fly.

Edit: Mack, no way. The amount of time, effort, and money I've got into this frame.. you'll need to get me somfin like a '05 V10 or DHR for an even trade (just my feelings).

 

[sayndesyn]

I once met this Aussie bloke with a 204 that liked it quite alot. Of course he resembled a Ozzy Osborne and Satan lovechild, and he was selling German Shisa videos in the parking lot so it is hard to be sure if he should be taken seriously.. ha. What up Paul. Killing time at work here... Still no work on the Maxxis rubber. They said it shipped a couple of weeks ago. Not that it matters with all this white stuff outside..

 

[k9handler]

ha ha....I heard he is clean cut now and on the wagon!

 

[partsbara]

you fricken pervs... had some decent powder in solden on sunday... sorted out the shuttle beast... she is mine now... been cruising all day looking for dirty german girls to star in some shizza porn ... here is my blackened POS...

and lets not forget about the mighty tomac... GODSPEED :dancing:

damn, i m getting pretty good at this computer shiat now... i can post pictures and polls... what next ??? e mail ???

 

[k9handler]

it's amazing what 18 beers and a bottle of Jim can do for you...best way to learn the computer **** for sure!

 

[partsbara]

it's amazing what 18 beers and a bottle of Jim can do for you...best way to learn the computer **** for sure!

jim beam is my enemy ... any leads on where to pick up an '8 ball' gear knob shifter ... anyone got a bull skull laying around ???

 

[k9handler]

you need some trucker girl mudd flaps for that beast!

 

[partsbara]

you need some trucker girl mudd flaps for that beast!

beast is the word mate... she goes great... plus, i can run into anything that pisses me off