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Training without "training"?

SCARY

Not long enough
Is it possible ?I have other priorities than spinning for hours on a road bike or long xc rides with intervals.

My perfect training week ( if I actually could have one.I'm lucky if I do 2 of these)Tuesday 1hr xc ride on Dh bike,
Thursday Mx track for maybe a total 1 hr on track
Sunday Dh shuttles ,they take a while ,maybe 30 min on bike.

I usually workout a bit with weight sat the my shop a few days a week.
my issue is whenever races come around --every time--I promise myself to do more cardio when I get home ,and I never do.

Is there anything else to do other than more of the same and boring ass cardio to get faster?Mental stuff?Fun stuff? I have a dh bike and an mx bike,and a ford f250.
 

Sghost

Turbo Monkey
Jul 13, 2008
1,045
0
NY
Just ride your XC bike and do what you want, don't freak about intervals. Sporadically cut some lifting if you want more cardio.
 

DhDork

Monkey
Mar 30, 2007
353
0
Hell, AZ
After reading that article the thing I need to work on the most it seems is Impact Strength. Everything always needs some work, but I have good technical skills, and can pedal all out for quite a while.

Any ideas for this kind of "training"?

EDIT: AHH, SCARY Larry. Good to put a name to face on the place once in a while.
 
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Tdiddy

Monkey
Apr 8, 2009
222
1
High intensity interval training will provide you with ample cardio gains for minimal time effort, but are very difficult. 12 to 16 minute workouts, three times a week, you'll feel like throwing up after each one, but will also notice sizeable performance gains much quicker than boring base miles. do some googling on tabata workouts.
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
115
San Francisco
If you're old, get a gym membership at your local university Rec Center. Relax and enjoy the eye candy while you sit on the stationary bikes and/or lift. That's as good of training as any xc riding.
 

roel_koel

Monkey
Mar 26, 2003
279
1
London,England
one of the best "training" methods without actually training (=boring), but having huge fun and developing a great skillset is to ride Pump Tracks as regularly as possible- ideally 4-5 times a week if possible



develops great upper body strength, overall cardio fitness, ability to really push it hard for ever lengthening time periods and resistance to lactic burn (especially in the thighs)

if you don't have a Pump Track, build one - you'll get a great workout from all that digging ;)

this is ours:



 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,233
192
coloRADo
I found this article interesting

Bike James is good people. I use his program. The combo of strength, mobility and quick aerobic activities has made a huge difference in my riding. He even covers nutrition and recovery (stretching & foam roller). Its all you'll ever need.

If you could only do one exercise? Deadlift and ride your bike. Trust me.
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,922
8
Over your shoulder whispering
Back in "the day" when I was getting local podiums, I just treated our local shuttles like a race run every time down the mountain. I'd just pin it the whole time, most of it out of control and on edge with my heart in my throat. A few guys would look at me at the bottom, gased and wasted, and just scratch their heads.

But it made the race runs way easier to handle.

If you've got a moto, I can only recommend turning your wrist to the 5pm position and feathering the clutch. ;)
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,922
8
Over your shoulder whispering
Oh, and this summer, I had a FREAKING blast on my kids trampoline just being an idiot. Doinging on one of those things for 5 minutes of Van Damme boosts and WWE manuevers is awesome cardio. :rofl:
 

yopaulie

Monkey
Jun 4, 2009
165
7
NH
I know this isn't a training thing but a lot of people go to the races take 10+ runs on Saturday and 4 more on Sunday morning. Come time for the race they are spent but don't realize it until they are halfway through their race run. I did this for years before I figured that out!
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,911
45
north jersey
I know this isn't a training thing but a lot of people go to the races take 10+ runs on Saturday and 4 more on Sunday morning. Come time for the race they are spent but don't realize it until they are halfway through their race run. I did this for years before I figured that out!
After doin that for 2 years, i limit myself to 3 practice runs
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,946
38
Roanoke, VA
Ride 5-20 minute motos on a bmx race bike on street and through back yards and parking lots. So fun. Lots of specificity. Be Cru Jones.
Rant partially about making training fun on a bmx bike here.
 

aaronjb

Monkey
Jul 22, 2010
662
136
CrossFit, or some mashup of crossfit-like routines and periodic cardiovascular training (road rides).
 

al-irl

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
1,087
0
A, A
I know this isn't a training thing but a lot of people go to the races take 10+ runs on Saturday and 4 more on Sunday morning. Come time for the race they are spent but don't realize it until they are halfway through their race run. I did this for years before I figured that out!
Yeah i figured that out a few years ago it made a huge difference. I know try and do as little riding as i can get away with at a race weekend. I find if i can get 2 2 hour xc/all mountain rides in a week and a spot of shuttles or an afternoons dirt jumping in a week keeps me fairly fit. I think its just about get a routine no matter what it is and doing something on a regular basis without breaks
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,604
281
Walden Ridge
Yeah, I wasn't sure about the XC ride on the DH bike either. I will occasionally do a few laps on my pump track with my DH bike and then I quickly remember how terrible it is.

Dont know about crossfit either. I have a buddy who looks incredibly fit from crossfit but it doesn't seem to translate over well. Even on our motos he gets whooped quick.

I say there is nothing better than seat time. I try to get as many DH runs as I can in the spring and early summer along with 1 hr XC ride/week. Then by the middle of the summer I will do 2 1hr XC rides/week and some DH runs on weekends I don't have races. I ride moto almost exclusively in the winter with as much XC as I can fit in with weather. Then during the rest of the year I'll occasionally ride moto and the pumptrack just to change it up some.
 

roel_koel

Monkey
Mar 26, 2003
279
1
London,England
anyone heard of the Swedish training method "Fartlekk"?

we used to do this for training in the 90s for both XC and DH racing, with great results

its basically an ongoing mixture of different length / intensity intervals sessions with brief rest periods

we used various venues like a huge car park at a shopping mall in the evenings as it was easy to judge distances using the painted white lines for the car parking spaces

and a huge road hill with a roundabout at the top and bottom so we could ride up, coast down, and ride back up, repeatedly...about 20 times in one evening at different effort levels
 

mattmatt86

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2005
5,354
10
Bleedmore, Murderland
anyone heard of the Swedish training method "Fartlekk"?
Ahhhhhhhhh! :eek: I never want to hear that word. I ran track in college and that's all we did for fall training 2-a-days.

But now that I think about it, that's kind of what I do on XC rides. I'll sit and spin for 10-15 mins then mash the pedals and pump certain sections for 5-10 mins then spin again and so on...
 

SCARY

Not long enough
Yeah,I hate xc rides going up and going down .At least Ive got the DH and it only sucks one way.I've had two xc bikes before when I've had dh bikes ,and I NEVER rode them.I actually rode the spin bike in front of the tv more often.Anything other than pure exploring,I HATE xc.
S.mtn is a good place to xc your Dh.I never get bored with that place.

The 11 minute fire road up to it I can do without
 

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,456
10
All the same principles of finding natural matches, pumping backsides, and hitting turns from a high level of DH is completely applicable in XC. This leads me to believe that if you hate XC, then you're probably doing it wrong or use a wack setup. Or you're out of shape, making it more of a "chore."

From the sounds of it, you want alot of something for nothing. I'd stick to riding shuttle runs and using your throttle. With such little time and motivation, your time is better spent processing terrain at speed and adapting your handling skills to it, which both will help you do. Just my 2 cents.
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,460
173
Hours and hours of singletrack on a dirt bike. You'll find consistency that you never could have dreamed of and you'll get so used to negotiating obstacles in a quick and clean manner without losing much speed at all. You can put in a full lift access weekends worth of saddle time in a few hours on a dirt bike. A 3-4 minute sprint in a race run will seem like nothing, and so will the weight and feedback of a downhill bike.

Also, when you get back on the DH bike, you'll feel like a complete retard if you DON'T hammer the pedals with all your strength out of corners.
 
i do short 1-1.5hr trail rides. i purposely ride trails that have interesting downhills. if i'm in the training mood, i'll focus in on cornering and picking deliberate lines, and also sprinting out of corners.

when i do ride downhill, i try not to stop and do the social "free-talking". i do top to bottom long runs, so the shorter race runs don't feel as long.

i also will throw in some dirt jumping or slalom track action for bike handling training.

nothings regimented, just variety.
 
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sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,411
0
SF
I do think it is funny that it sounds like the OP is trying to ride 3 hours a week.
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
115
San Francisco
This thread is just LOLz. Here's some pro tips if you really want to train (hint: it works in EVERY competitive sport)


1. Drill, practice basic skills (pump track, dirt jump, cones, session technical features, video tape yourself and analyze your technique, etc.)
2. Strength train in the gym, lift some weights
3. Cardio (road bike, stationary bike, running, interval, whatever)
4. Cross training (moto/bmx/basketball/etc.)
5. Ride downhill to practice and put it all together (only do this once or twice a week, TOPS).
 

roel_koel

Monkey
Mar 26, 2003
279
1
London,England
no shame in admitting I *love* XC riding (trail / all mountain..whatever you want to call it), the night riding is fantastic training 4 nights a week



big lung / leg burning climbs, fast singletrack across and faster technical descents, all on my 6x6 bike

really pushing hard, out of breath, feeling the burn, no rest at the top, but turn and point the bike down and go even faster, and then back up to do it all again

wicked fun, and great winter training, especially in the mud when its 2x as difficult to keep the power on!

come Spring, you've got fitness and power for the DH races, and have a finely tuned ability to ride in deep mud ;)
 

SCARY

Not long enough
All the same principles of finding natural matches, pumping backsides, and hitting turns from a high level of DH is completely applicable in XC. This leads me to believe that if you hate XC, then you're probably doing it wrong or use a wack setup. Or you're out of shape, making it more of a "chore."

From the sounds of it, you want alot of something for nothing. I'd stick to riding shuttle runs and using your throttle. With such little time and motivation, your time is better spent processing terrain at speed and adapting your handling skills to it, which both will help you do. Just my 2 cents.
I really want to be offended at your remarks....but if I'm honest with myself,you're probably 100% accurate.

I can't commit that much time to something that dosent pay my mortgage.I love my work, so that gets precedence.

It really is a miracle that I've gotten as far as I have in dh and mx with as little riding that I actually do.I don't really acknowledge it because I do "expect"I can do something just cuz I want to,to a large degree.

I hope it's not arrogance ,but if I can't do it to a high degree without spending crap loads of time,I'm not going to.

Lets face it,if pro class was really a "PRO"class ,with prize money or a chance at a purse,there might be a bit more incentive.Of course ,I don't think I have that next level in me to be up with the guys that'd get the money anyway.The 12 yr old badasses would own the podium.

So,yeah,I am expecting something for little.I'm just trying to amplify the inverse ratio of effort to results.

That sounded so cool^.
 

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,456
10
I really want to be offended at your remarks....but if I'm honest with myself,you're probably 100% accurate.
It was intended to be brutally honest, not offensive, so I'm glad you took a step back and thought about it. This place is a soap opera enough lately. :) To repeat my main point, to me it sounded the most efficent to spend what time you have honing your ability to process terrain at speed, via your downhill and mx bike. Mind you I'm no coach, but from my own experience cardio only comes in the form of hard work and time, and it's not always fun. That being said, I still get owned down the hill by guys less fit than me, because they know how to not ride like a girl better than me. If I didn't like riding my xc and road bikes just for fun, but wanted to get better at DH, then I'd spend all my free time on my DH bike. You're developing all the necessary muscles and motor skills, will still be getting cardio (because it's actually a boat load of excercize), and will be having a good time, which is damn important for getting stoked and staying motivated to keep at it.
 
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buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,837
0
South Seattle
Actually, intervals on a trainer is probably to most efficient way to work out for DH. You can get a solid workout in under 1hr. No driving, no bike prep/cleaning, etc. I do it after 10, when everybody is asleep.
Buy a HR monitor and go to town.
It takes a little mental push to stay motivated, but the results are incredible.
I have very little bike time with family and work, so you gotta get it in when you can.