[johnbryanpeters]

I have been riding on Mavic 823 rims, chosen for durability, for years, but have never started using tubeless tires. Tried one last year when I blew a tire and somebody had a Bontrager (whatever), but it'd never hold air without sealant.

I'm planning to ride the Kokopelli trail in early May. Dirt's thread on Porky Rim got me to thinking again, since many who replied bitched about flatting on tires with tubes, so, to all the e-experts, what tires, what sealant if any and is the purported advantage real?

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

What tires do you like? I've ran all sorts of models on my 823s and they've sealed well... I'm not a fan of the true UST tires I've used, except for the old school Michelins.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

What tires do you like? I've ran all sorts of models on my 823s and they've sealed well... I'm not a fan of the true UST tires I've used, except for the old school Michelins.

My default is WTB Velociraptors.

 

[Silver]

Three questions:

1 - Do you like running low tire pressures?
2 - Do you have an air compressor?
3 - Do you swap tires often?

If your answers are yes, yes, no then go for it. Any other combo of answers, and you'll probably be frustrated. Going without sealant isn't an option. Even if you're running UST rims and tires, why wouldn't you throw some sealant in there for peace of mind and thorns?

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Three questions:

1 - Do you like running low tire pressures?
2 - Do you have an air compressor?
3 - Do you swap tires often?

If your answers are yes, yes, no then go for it. Any other combo of answers, and you'll probably be frustrated. Going without sealant isn't an option. Even if you're running UST rims and tires, why wouldn't you throw some sealant in there for peace of mind and thorns?

1) Like lower better than higher for off-road
2) Yes
3) No

Edit: Get more flats and slow leaks from thorns than anything else...

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

My default is WTB Velociraptors.

Can't say I've used those lately. I ran some Prowler SS/MX models on similar rims (Crossmax ST) and had excellent luck. I tried a Mutano on the rear after wanting something lighter and paid the price with a rock puncture in the tread. Too big for the Stans to seal.

Three questions:

1 - Do you like running low tire pressures?
2 - Do you have an air compressor?
3 - Do you swap tires often?

If your answers are yes, yes, no then go for it. Any other combo of answers, and you'll probably be frustrated. Going without sealant isn't an option. Even if you're running UST rims and tires, why wouldn't you throw some sealant in there for peace of mind and thorns?

Running without sealant? Yeah, that's funny...

 

[johnbryanpeters]

What tires do you like? I've ran all sorts of models on my 823s and they've sealed well... I'm not a fan of the true UST tires I've used, except for the old school Michelins.

What happened with the true UST tires?

 

[jdcamb]

Stans sealant works pretty well. I have had good luck with Continetal UST tires. I tried a Panaracer Rampage UST as a rear. It was pretty grippy but wore out fast. Lots of folks swear by Kenda Blue Groove - Nevegal combo. Stans Valves have a removeable core and they work well. Those 823 rims are bulletproof and work very well even with a non ust tire. I run XM 819 because I float like a butterfly and sting like a bee....

 

[Silver]

What happened with the true UST tires?

Too damn heavy, and the advantage is that you can "Run them without sealant!" which of course negates one of the huge advantages of going tubeless in the first place, which is the sealant...

That heavy airtight UST casing also doesn't ride nearly as nice, IMO.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

Too damn heavy, and the advantage is that you can "Run them without sealant!" which of course negates one of the huge advantages of going tubeless in the first place, which is the sealant...

Yup.

What happened with the true UST tires?

To add, I've had bad luck with downhill UST Minion/Highrollers. Their bead design is a poor IMO as it forms a great seal, but there isn't enough rubber there to maintain strength. If you land sideways or hit a turn too hard, the bead can tear, then the sealant doesn't do $hit. Killed 3 of their tires in the same way. You can still use a tube after the tire is torn, but it's risky.

Most UST tires are on the heavy side as they're designed to be ran without sealant. The extra weight isn't essential, unless you need a stronger casing.

FYI, though not an ideal XC tire, the new EXO casing Minions are my personal favorites now for trail riding. They're a little heavy, but I always have puncture issues using anything lighter. Been running a pair on Havens for the last 6 months with excellent results.

 

[Wumpus]

My default is WTB Velociraptors.

It's time to move into the 21st century.


Kenda does not warranty any tire used with sealant.

 

[?????]

Your only regret will be that you didn't do it sooner, and that you can't swap tires as often (unless you buy sealant in bulk).

I still use Michelin's DH16/24/32 combo on my DH bike. They're excellent. I use to not run sealant in them, but.. now I do. They would seal up well for a day of riding, but they were always low the next day. Now that I use sealant I don't have to pump them up before every ride and I never-ever get flats.

The same goes for the Hutchinson MRC medium UST tires that I use on my trail bike. They're about 800 grams a tire, but they have the best casing you could ever imagine for a trailbike/all mountain bike. They're kevlar beaded and feel right in the middle of a DH and XC tire casing. I use the 2.3" Python in the rear and Bulldog in the front. The tire has a lot of volume, but the tread doesn't extend as far onto the sidewall as I would like. I like the Python in the rear because it rolls fast, but I wish I had gotten a Barracuda for the front instead of the Bulldog.

The only bad experience that I've had with UST tires has been some older Michelin XC tires. I shredded the sidewall on a few of them.

 

[DirtMcGirk]

Here in AZ tubeless is pretty much isn't a luxury, its a necessity. Reminds me I need to change the lady's bike and my DJ over as soon as I can afford some more rims and a wheel build.

I've been riding them for six years now for DH, maybe 3 for XC. I love it. I still keep mine high, like 40psi, but I am a fat bastard with little to no actual riding skill. Right now I am riding the WTB MX Prowlers. I like them pretty well, they roll fast, haven't punctured, and seem to tolerate my shenanigans. I still run two cups of Stan's in each tire though.

 

[DirtyMike]

Too damn heavy, and the advantage is that you can "Run them without sealant!" which of course negates one of the huge advantages of going tubeless in the first place, which is the sealant...

That heavy airtight UST casing also doesn't ride nearly as nice, IMO.

Everything he said about the UST tires. Damned things are just heavy....

Probably one of my favorite idea's right now for UST ish tires is specialized 2bliss design. Has a tubeless type bead, requires sealant to be used tubeless. Lighter version of a UST tire, and really easy to use either way you desire.


Personally I am still stuck on stans for the best sealant out there for applications such as this.

 

[DirtMcGirk]

For me the extra weight isn't an issue. If I want to lose weight off the bike, I go for a jog and take it off my gunt. Not having a flat in over a year of riding in AZ, on the other hand, is just priceless.

 

[jonKranked]

WTB: Worse Than Bad.

 

[DirtyMike]

WTB: Worse Than Bad.

Agreed.... I used to run WTB Way back when.... But then I realized I like traction.

 

[DirtMcGirk]

I bent a valve stem last night as my front wheel was built retarded, so I am replacing the stems and the tires tonight. Going to try some Geax DHEA's front and rear, see how it goes.

 

[DirtMcGirk]

Anyone run Schwalbe's Fat Albert front UST? Found it for cheap over on Department of Goods, was thinking of running it on the front and the DHEA's on the rear on both the ASR and the Intense SS. 2.35's might save a little weight, save a little bulk. Might be nice if they're not total crap.

 

[eaterofdog]

You don't need an air compressor to install tubeless... if you know the trick.

 

[jonKranked]

You don't need an air compressor to install tubeless... if you know the trick.

which would be....?

 

[jdcamb]

You don't need an air compressor to install tubeless... if you know the trick.

Care to share?

 

[-BB-]

Stans sealant works pretty well. I have had good luck with Continetal UST tires. I tried a Panaracer Rampage UST as a rear. It was pretty grippy but wore out fast. Lots of folks swear by Kenda Blue Groove - Nevegal combo. Stans Valves have a removeable core and they work well. Those 823 rims are bulletproof and work very well even with a non ust tire. I run XM 819 because I float like a butterfly and sting like a bee....

There are also UST valves with a removable core now. They work great.
+1 on Stan's sealant
+1 on Continental UST's

My personal preference with the Conti's right now is:
Mountain King -FRONT
Trail King- REAR

 

[-BB-]

Anyone run Schwalbe's Fat Albert front UST? Found it for cheap over on Department of Goods, was thinking of running it on the front and the DHEA's on the rear on both the ASR and the Intense SS. 2.35's might save a little weight, save a little bulk. Might be nice if they're not total crap.

Oh... Sorry... Just ordered the last one.


And they are the BEST TIRE EVER!!
Actually, I'm just a tire s1ut. Maxxis were my go-to brand for a long time. Still love them. Now I'm really into the Conti's (as mentioned) and Schwalbe.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

You don't need an air compressor to install tubeless... if you know the trick.

When I played with the Bontrager tire I put a ratchet strap around the tread and was able to inflate without difficulty using a floor pump.

 

[jdcamb]

There are also UST valves with a removable core now. They work great.
+1 on Stan's sealant
+1 on Continental UST's

My personal preference with the Conti's right now is:
Mountain King -FRONT
Trail King- REAR

I bought 4 Vertical Pro UST's before they stopped making them. I have 2 left and the ones Have on the bike are in good shape.

 

[mantispf2000]

Used to feel that doing my own "slimed" tubes was best, then tried Stan's and tubeless (Tioga Red Phoenix, if I recall), for the 24OP, and never looked back. When I got home, I took the tire off, and noticed a huge saguaro needle in it, yet I didn't lose air. Now I'm hooked. Granted, I need 2 wheel sets so I can swap from tubeless to slicks or training rides, but that's the cost for me.

Have been using WTB Bronsons and Wolverines, and have been happy with their traction and speed. Oh wait, speed isn't a problem, since I still have 30lbs to lose to be a light Clydesdale..... And I've been able to get by with a floor pump without straps or such, haha.

 

[eaterofdog]

When I played with the Bontrager tire I put a ratchet strap around the tread and was able to inflate without difficulty using a floor pump.

 

[mudgirl]

I'm running Stan's Arches wheels & Schwalbe Nobby Nics on mine. I use the Stan's sealant.... I had one 1/4" long rock puncture in a Rocket Rons I was running on the rear earlier in the summer, and the Stan's sealed it right up. I rode it for another couple of months w/o any leaking issues, and then switched to the Nobby Nics. I was able to install the Nobby Nics myself, using just a floor pump (and... you know how helpless I am when it comes to doing anything mechanical on the bike, so that's saying a lot).

 

[DirtMcGirk]

Does anyone know why there is such a lack of 2.25 to 2.35 tires in the UST world? Seems like with a couple noted exceptions, there are either skinny tires or DH tires, not a lot in between. Is there a technical reason for this, or is it just not that big of a market?

 

[kazlx]

I run non UST Minons/High Rollers with DH casings on 823s and love it. Will never go back to tubes. I was always getting pinch flats. With tubes, I either had to run higher pressure which felt like crap, or I would pinch flat. When I built the Knolly, I started out with the 823/HR combo and have had maybe 2 flats in about 3 years.

 

[jdcamb]

I was trying to think of the last time I had a flat?? I need to add some sealant or check it.

 

[kazlx]

Same here. When I get a flat, it seems to just be from not having enough sealant in there. It seems to dry out after a while. Just add a little more, pump back up, rotate the tire around to seal and good to go.

 

[TreeSaw]

It's time to move into the 21st century.


Kenda does not warranty any tire used with sealant.

Kenda allows the use of sealant now.

 

[TreeSaw]

I've run UST rims and tires exclusively since I got my Orbea. No problems whatsoever and I haven't used sealant either. I run low air pressures, ride aggressive XC trails (lots of rocks and roots) and it's been great. I run Kenda Blue Grooves on my Orbea and either Blue Grooves or Nevegals on my 575.

 

[kazlx]

Not running Kendas is just as effective.

 

[jdcamb]

Not running Kendas is just as effective.

Symptom: Wheel has flat spot... Take the tire off and put in stand. Wheel is perfect. Give back to customer and put back Kenda tire back no charge. Next customer ride get wheel back. Same process. Put tire back on and check for roundness. Kenda tire has the flat spot. Call Kenda and get new tire. Same thing. Rip out hair instead...

 

[Wumpus]

Kenda allows the use of sealant now.

It appears that it is only a few tires...

SEALANT COMPATIBLE (SCT)
Sealant Compatible (SCT) tires can be considered a cross of a tube type and UST type tire. When used with a liquid sealant, SCT tires form an air tight seal, similar to the UST tire, but can be used on almost all bicycle rims. SCT tires have an additional layer of material built into the casing of the tire that allows it to be compatible with the various chemicals in liquid sealants; however this material is thinner and lighter than its UST counterpart. The benefits of SCT tires, when used with sealant, allows the rider to use lower air pressures as well as take full advantage of the liquid sealant compound when it comes to sealing most punctures or cuts in a tire.

 

[?????]

Does anyone know why there is such a lack of 2.25 to 2.35 tires in the UST world? Seems like with a couple noted exceptions, there are either skinny tires or DH tires, not a lot in between. Is there a technical reason for this, or is it just not that big of a market?

If you ever see someone from Mavic, punch them right in the face

... then ask for an 821.

 

[DirtyMike]

I bent a valve stem last night as my front wheel was built retarded, so I am replacing the stems and the tires tonight. Going to try some Geax DHEA's front and rear, see how it goes.

Spokes crossing over the valve? See that alot with guys that are just not paying enough attention