So USA Cycling has finally annouced its new categories for 2009. Seems legit.
https://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=3846
https://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=3846
USA Cycling new mtb categories
- Thread starter Jester
- Start date
Is good.
Seems like 'Pro' is better defined and a bigger jump, the way it should be.
Seems like 'Pro' is better defined and a bigger jump, the way it should be.
well, except that all semi-pros will get the choice to upgrade to pro for the '09 season. if anything it is going to dilute the pro field even more. but given that our fastest DH guys (with the exception of a very small few every now and then) are international pack filler it really shouldn't matter; at least the field size will be legit.
Well the other thing I see is all the Semi Pro that upgrade will also pay a lot more for a license. The end result is USA Cycling will make more $$$$. I hope they will take that $$$ and spend it on the Pros Prizes, better Venues, Etc. We will see next year I guess.....:huh:
I've been working on my semi upgrade for 7 years. My goal was to be semi before I had to race 30-39. I guess I got it.
Makes it a tough decision for current semi-pros though. I'll probably never finish in the top 20 again if I go pro but I really don't want to be thrown into amatuer DH practice sessions. Hopefully Cat 1 will be a faster group than current Expert or I'll win every race and feel like a sandbagger. I'll miss Semi-pro cuz that's exactly what I am, a pro level rider who is semi-retired and doesn't train as hard as the top guys.
Edit: On the XC side of things I definitely can't keep up with pros but will miss the extra lap that we (Semi-pros) did over Experts.
Edit: On the XC side of things I definitely can't keep up with pros but will miss the extra lap that we (Semi-pros) did over Experts.
i don't know how i feel about this yet. i can upgrade to semi pro under the old rules but when i email the local representative she didn't give me a real answer just a copy of what was released. i was told i will get an email concerning my placement later. after i read the email it seems that semis that want to be pro have 2009 and only 2009 to decide their rank and can upgrade to pro or downgrade to cat 1.
i just requested the upgrade on usacycling instead of talking to people direct.
i just requested the upgrade on usacycling instead of talking to people direct.
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I saw that....they are doing that to eliminate a huge backlash i guess. Semi field is bloated but it also has really lost its identity. So they are giving people a choice to make it a smoother transition, i suspect.
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All of the local USAC races I enter don't have a semi-pro catagory. Semi-pros are lumped into Pro class, but ultimately the field is not seperated out when points are awarded. For this reason, it'd be difficult for me to upgrade to Pro unless I actually podiumed in it to begin with. On the same note, my times are usually always on top in expert, so I don't belong there either. I guess the new system doesn't change much for me, since that's how its been since I upgraded anyway.
Line up for your autographs people. I am now an official "Pro Mountain Bike Rider".
And, I just don't understand the current ranking system. Somehow, I'm the #1 ranked semi in the country. Just doesn't seem right.
http://www.usacycling.org/rankings/index.php?org=NORBA&sex=M&state=&disc=DH&cat=SM&age=
And, I just don't understand the current ranking system. Somehow, I'm the #1 ranked semi in the country. Just doesn't seem right.
http://www.usacycling.org/rankings/index.php?org=NORBA&sex=M&state=&disc=DH&cat=SM&age=
I am too lazy to read all of that, are there still age categories?
woof you are a freaking stud, thats why your are the number 1 semi-pro... and cause you are my amigo, that weighs heavily in the ranking process.
Huh? How do you figure? Cat. 1 is more like Expert, not Semi.
I'm going to drop from semi-pro to expert for DH and move up from semi-pro to pro for XC....I don't ride DH enough anymore to justify being a pro, I would probably get slaughtered.
I was having a laugh with the Buell brothers about how many classes you Americans have!
^ I guess it doesn't effect me as a factory sport rider!
From the press release:
"The names of the categories were also revised to better reflect the new levels of racing. The terms ‘Beginner’, ‘Sport’ and ‘Expert’ carry little relevance outside of the mountain bike community, which makes it difficult for sponsors and the public to relate. The simplicity of using numbered categories brings with it a universal understanding.”
Oh, yeah. When the public hears things like "Beginner" or "Expert" they obviously have a have a hard time understanding the meaning, but saying "Category 1" or "Category 3" makes things crystal clear. Are you freaking kidding me? Who's the mental midget that came up with that logic? I guess I'm not surprised though, I mean tihis is coming from usa cycling...
And I'm not advocating one way or the other, but don't put this bs propaganda out there.
"The names of the categories were also revised to better reflect the new levels of racing. The terms ‘Beginner’, ‘Sport’ and ‘Expert’ carry little relevance outside of the mountain bike community, which makes it difficult for sponsors and the public to relate. The simplicity of using numbered categories brings with it a universal understanding.”
Oh, yeah. When the public hears things like "Beginner" or "Expert" they obviously have a have a hard time understanding the meaning, but saying "Category 1" or "Category 3" makes things crystal clear. Are you freaking kidding me? Who's the mental midget that came up with that logic? I guess I'm not surprised though, I mean tihis is coming from usa cycling...
And I'm not advocating one way or the other, but don't put this bs propaganda out there.
As a promoter, I appreciate the fact that I now won't have to explain to new racers that the beginner race class is not necessarily for beginner riders. The terms "beginner" and "expert" carry pejorative connotations that don't necessarily match their application, and in that sense, I think an arbitrary system of numbers is ultimately better.
I think the term "public" is probably an incorrect choice in the press release- it's not like there are legions of non-biker fans of amateur bike racing in the US who are confused by this. But it will make things easier to understand for those entering racing, and gets over the inconsistencies with things like sport class racers who would, in the estimation of most average riders, be judged as "expert" riders.
Exactly, I agree with you 99%. Except I don't think that it's probably an incorrect choice of words, it certainly is. They chose to state that it helps clarify for the public and sponsors. By public, I read that as "non-biker" fans. And by sponsors, I think they're getting at "non-biker" savy as well. It also sounds a lot better when someone say "I won the CATEGORY 1 national chamionship" than the "BEGINNER national championship". Category 3 is 'expert' level? No layperson would know that... they wonder, hmmm, is there a Category 5? Again, I could care less about the change, but boy I just can't stand bs propaganda, and there certainly was enough in that release to fill my bucket.
Yeah Michael was saying alot of the races in Europe have two classes Hobby and license. The hobby class was for hobby racers, the license class was for riders who purhase a yearly license. Seems like a good way to do things to me.
Here in the U.S.A. we like everyone to feel special so we have a bazillion classs so everyone gets on the podium and gets an award. We wouldn't want anyone to go home upset and feeling unimportant.
I still don't see how changing the classes is going to improve the quality of DH racing.:huh:
The whole point of the semipro class was to foster the faster riders so they could progress faster and get full pro status. It did not do what it was suppose to. Too many semi pro racers got there and just felt comfortable there and never went to pro. Having less classes makes each class more competitive.
Fewer classes mean fewer tops spots. This will make riders push harder for that top spot. You do not push nearly as hard if you are garanteed a podium.
As for Semi-Pros moving down to Cat1(expert) Cat1 is going to be a faster more difficult class. I am sure there will be more than one Semi-Pro that moves to Cat1.
It is not a downgrade as Cat 1 is not just a mirror of the current Expert class, it's Expert + most of Semipro. The NORBA board has taken great pains to remove the "downgrade" stigma from the Semipro to Cat 1 move, and in fact it should be a lateral move for most of the current semi-pros.
Current semi-pros should be weary of moving up to pro. If you are an amateur racer, meaning you don't have a pro contract, draw a salary, get race support from a pro team, or receive major and significant industry/non-industry sponsorship, then you should class yourself into the top amateur class- Cat 1.
The intent of this move is to set pro class apart as truly "professional," and racers should expect more stringent requirements for pro licenses in 2010 and future years...
no Cat 1 is/was expert.....Cat 3 is/was beginner
Ok, I have some serious questions based on the below:
In a previous post you also mentioned that
"As a promoter, I appreciate the fact that I now won't have to explain to new racers that the beginner race class is not necessarily for beginner riders."
How so? Describe to me how simply renaming a class from "Beginner" to "Category 3" solves the problem of having that discussion with new racers .
Next question: Has NORBA insituted any metrics to track the effectiveness of said changes? Because if you can't measure the effectiveness of the changes, all you really can do is speculate on their effectiveness. Fortunately for everyone, you are certainly in the right place for speculation!
Without even mentioning semi-pro's, what about the existing "professional" (ie not semi-pro) riders out there that don't draw a salary, get race support from a pro team (how many of those are around these days?), or recieve some major industry / non-industry sponsorship? Don't you think that there appears to be a lot more riders that don't have the substantial backing, and yet are still licensed "professionals", than the ones you've described. Should they reclassify based on your above indicators of what constitute professional riders? Are they included in the grand vision of truely setting the pro class apart from the rest? Point being that the actual number of "professional" racers by definition (being a racer is their job), is small. There's also a question related to the chicken and the egg here, but I digress.
In a previous post you also mentioned that
"As a promoter, I appreciate the fact that I now won't have to explain to new racers that the beginner race class is not necessarily for beginner riders."
How so? Describe to me how simply renaming a class from "Beginner" to "Category 3" solves the problem of having that discussion with new racers .
Next question: Has NORBA insituted any metrics to track the effectiveness of said changes? Because if you can't measure the effectiveness of the changes, all you really can do is speculate on their effectiveness. Fortunately for everyone, you are certainly in the right place for speculation!
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i am not sure what i can do for 2009, but the new classification does not make it easier for new riders and general population to understand. if that was true Will Ferrell would have stared in "Cat. 1" not semi-pro. but regardless of the category name an upgrade makes you a faster rider, or you stop racing and ride for fun. anyone who thinks cat1 is going to be slow is stupid. do pro licenses cost more?
Oddly enough, if I can afford the license next year, you'll have a 36 year old father of 2 racing pro class...me. 
Can't be spending precious time practicing my track stand in Cat 1. 
Can't be spending precious time practicing my track stand in Cat 1.
tried to register and go through the process to see how much a pro license is but it won't offer the auto upgrade until Dec. I'm guessing there will be a price increase at that point too...
My Cat. 1 cyclocross license was $150, I believe your pro license will be the same. My license is UCI, but I think all pro licenses are
Before we continue this discussion any more, let me just say that the desire to increase the level of commitment for the pro class is not being driven by the staff of USA Cycling, it's being driven by current pros who want the pro class to mean more than it does now. Don't hate USA Cycling for this- it's being done by demand from top racers, and nothing will get be implemented without their approval. At this point there's no "grand vision," it's a constantly evolving process of listening to the pros and giving them the category that they want- more respected and more exclusive.
To deal with this shift in licensing, you'll likely see local promoters on the gravity side do what most XC and road promoters do- open up the "pro" class at their local races to any pro or Cat 1 license holders by making it pro/open. USA Cycling allows this unless the race is UCI inscripted or it's a national or state championship race. That way, those semipros who class into Cat 1 can still race the pro class races and not deal with the traffic from the age-groupers during practice. They'll also save $90/year with the $60 Cat 1 license instead of the $150 pro license. Best of both worlds.
This will also make Cat 1 tougher in the coming years, delaying upgrades for the muppets who in the past moved up due to very weak beginner and sport category competition.
Have you promoted races? Listening to beginner racers complain about how the course isn't suitable for beginners is one of the unique joys of race promotion.
Getting rid of that pejorative term of "beginner" is akin to IMBA's shift in trail rating. No singletrack is labeled "easy" anymore, just "less difficult, more difficult and most difficult" with the warning that "there are no easy trails." With arbitrary categories, the language doesn't carry any skill connotations. It's not a huge deal, but it's a small thing that will ultimately be good for racing.Overall, these are positive moves to make racing stronger and to make the word "pro" really mean professional again in American mountain bike racing. The transition won't be painless, but the end result will be worth it. I'm sure Todd will chime in once he's back from his European foray. He worked hard over the past year to help push this through and fine-tune it so that it makes sense for the gravity side...
I think it is a good shift. It's pretty damn sad when you have less than 10 people in a class so this should help to keep people who have crashed 6 times from still getting on the podium. I think it will help to motivate alot of us semi-pro's to actually do something resembling training in the off season.
so, since we're adopting the road class structure, does this mean that MTB racers will all turn into pompous, elitist douchebags too?!
too late.so, since we're adopting the road class structure, does this mean that MTB racers will all turn into pompous, elitist douchebags too?!
I think there would have to be money involved...