[Tenchiro]

Why can we afford bombs that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, but not afford safe transportation for our children to get to school? Hell in some schools they can barely afford to teach properly.

One of my friends who is a teacher says they have to vote on a levy that if it fails will force them to lay off 150 non-teaching staff, remove one class from the day and close all music and sprts programs.

WTF!?! I swear to god our government has it's head shoved so far up it's collective a$$ it is ridiculous! and what is worse nobody seems to give a sh!t about it.

What is this country going to be like in 30 years, besides screwed up I mean?

Some Public Schools Charging for Busing
1 hour, 58 minutes ago
By KEN MAGUIRE, Associated Press Writer

BOSTON - Lawmakers and school officials have a stark message for parents who think their taxes already pay for school bus transportation: No more free rides.

Cash-strapped public schools trying to hang on to their teachers are increasingly turning to busing fees to raise money. The move has angered parents and raised concerns that children may be forced to use more dangerous means — like walking — to get to school.

"It seems like this country can afford a lot of other things, but we can't send our students to school on buses?" asked Jane Million, spokeswoman for the National Association of Elementary School Principals. "To be able to get to school in a safe manner, we need to be able to provide that."

About a third of all school districts in Massachusetts already charge middle- and high-school students for busing. On Cape Cod, for example, the town of Barnstable raises $350,000 per year by charging $200 per child in grades 7 and higher.

Kids in kindergarten through sixth grade are entitled to free rides if they live at least two miles from school. But that may change soon as Massachusetts lawmakers warn communities and schools they will lose millions in state aid because of a $3 billion budget deficit.

Sally Forbes, a parent in Hingham, supported her school board's recent rejection of bus fees. But she is reconsidering because the school board is threatening to furlough teachers to save money.

"The bottom line is trying to fill in these holes so you don't lose teachers," said Forbes, mother of a second-grader and a high school freshman.

Communities in other states, including California, Texas, New Jersey, Montana, Hawaii, Kansas, North Dakota and Utah, also make parents pay for pupil transportation to and from school, with exemptions for the poor.

"It's certainly something that's become more acceptable," said Robin Leeds, a lobbyist for the National School Transportation Association, which represents private bus companies. "Rather than getting rid of transportation, they'll charge fees."

The fees are most prevalent in Massachusetts and California, said Mike Martin, executive director of the National Association for Pupil Transportation, an industry group. He said bus fees are not common — yet.

"It's something that everyone is looking at," Martin said.

California districts, required to provide free transportation only to special needs students, are scrambling to raise money with the state facing a $34 billion deficit, the nation's largest.

"We've got districts reducing bus service by increasing 'walking areas,' we've got districts charging fees for the first time and districts that have been charging fees raising the fees," said Bob Austin, coordinator of California's school transportation office. "Our phones have been going crazy."

About a third of California's 900 districts charge bus fees.

Districts in Orange County may increase bus fees — currently about $225 annually — and stop transporting students who live near schools. South of San Francisco, the Pajaro Valley school board may impose a $270 bus fee to raise $750,000 next year.

The Capistrano Unified School District has proposed eliminating busing altogether — a move Leeds, of the bus industry group, says would be "counter to safety."

"Transportation is not a mandated service. It is a local district option," Austin said. "They're making decisions to either take teachers out of the classroom or take buses off the road."

School buses are the safest form of school transportation, according to a National Research Council (news - web sites) report last year. Buses are the way one-fourth of all students get to school but account for only 2 percent of child deaths in school-related traffic accidents.

School districts in Massachusetts can get state reimbursement of some transportation costs. But Gov. Mitt Romney has proposed eliminating the reimbursement altogether to help balance the books. He also favors the use of fees to raise money.

While unpopular, busing fees have withstood legal challenges in California, North Dakota and Massachusetts.

Some parents said states shouldn't pass the buck.

"The state needs to look at its own responsibility for funding public education," said Judy Wilson of Hingham. "That's what our country is supposed to do — is provide a public education without a cost to students."

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by Tenchiro
Why can we afford bombs that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, but not afford safe transportation for our children to get to school? Hell in some schools they can barely afford to teach properly.

Well, its not that i agree exactly with the current system, but, just how safe would any bus ride be if we didnt have those bombs? I mean, how safe would any of us be?

Bombs make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

[SandMan]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Well, its not that i agree exactly with the current system, but, just how safe would any bus ride be if we didnt have those bombs? I mean, how safe would any of us be?

Bombs make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Hope you are not serious.

Where are the WMD in Iraq? The only thing the US liberated is the oil. Remember the first thing they did is secure the oil wells and in the capital the only thing they protected is the oil ministry. If you want to feel safe, get North Korea... only one problem it's not worth the effort because there is no oil there.

 

[stevew]

Did they run out of money from the Big Tobbaco settlement/swindle.

Just raise the tax on smokes.

steve

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by stevew
Did they run out of money from the Big Tobbaco settlement/swindle.

Just raise the tax on smokes.

steve

None of that goes to schools. Schools only get taxes specifically levied for education. The sad fact is, Americans that don't have children currently in the school system refuse to pay for public schools. As the nation grows older, a smaller and smaller proportion of us have children in K-12...

It's shameful what our public schools have become. A crime against our own country.

I don't know why anyone is suprised that we're rotting away with greed and shortsightedness.

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by ohio
I don't know why anyone is suprised that we're rotting away with greed and shortsightedness.

Why do you hate America, ohio?

Now that we got that out of the way, no one needs to mention it downthread

I feel the same as you. You look at who our leaders are (There are two people off the top of my head that I'm happy got elected. John McCain, and Russ Feingold. That's two people out of 100 senators and more than 400 congressmen that I don't actively hate. Not a good ratio) and work down from there.

It's not a good thing to be lead by a group of people who will sell their souls for a campaign contribution from a lobbyist.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by Silver
Why do you hate America, ohio?

Nononononnooooo.... you got it wrong. I don't hate AmericA. I hate AmericANS.

Come to think of it, I kind of hate people in general...

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by SandMan


Hope you are not serious.

Where are the WMD in Iraq? The only thing the US liberated is the oil. Remember the first thing they did is secure the oil wells and in the capital the only thing they protected is the oil ministry. If you want to feel safe, get North Korea... only one problem it's not worth the effort because there is no oil there.

Maybe Im confused...

Dude, you think that if we didnt have all our bombs that North Korea would even consider not having Nukes? And in Iraq, if we didnt secure the oil wells, they would have gone up in a huge ecoligically destructive blaze that would not only destroy the environment, but also leave the iraqis without hope for income in the future. But thats not really where this debate is going to go i hope, as there are already several going on.
Kids really should have everything at their disposal when it comes to education. We need serious reform.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by SandMan


Hope you are not serious.

Where are the WMD in Iraq? The only thing the US liberated is the oil. Remember the first thing they did is secure the oil wells and in the capital the only thing they protected is the oil ministry. If you want to feel safe, get North Korea... only one problem it's not worth the effort because there is no oil there.

OMG! If one more idiot says it's all about the oil, I'm gonna snap some necks :angry:

Oil is a factor, I'll grant you that, but it's most definitely not the top priority.

And while BS was being sarcastic, he was also serious. And I agree with him.

NK can, should and will be handled diplomatically.

We need to channel money to the inner-city cuz most schools outside of poor areas have the resources they need. Granted, my personal feeling is teachers deserve more money and respect.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by LordOpie
OMG! If one more idiot says it's all about the oil, I'm gonna snap some necks :angry:

Wow, this is going off topic.

Focus, people: I hate Americans. Discuss.

 

[SandMan]

Originally posted by LordOpie
OMG! If one more idiot says it's all about the oil, I'm gonna snap some necks :angry:

Oil is a factor, I'll grant you that, but it's most definitely not the top priority.

And while BS was being sarcastic, he was also serious. And I agree with him.

NK can, should and will be handled diplomatically.

We need to channel money to the inner-city cuz most schools outside of poor areas have the resources they need. Granted, my personal feeling is teachers deserve more money and respect.

You are right it's not only about oil. Imagin a whole new untapped market that is now open to the US. This includes everything from mobile phone service, coke/pepsi, trains, roads, etc. This is just a small example of this new market now owned by the US.

In fact California Republican Congressman Darrel Issa has introduced a bill that would require the Defense Department to build a CDMA cell-phone system in postwar Iraq in order to benefit "US patent holders."

It's all about money. North Korea which can possibly pose a bigger threat is not worth invading, does this make sense?

Think

 

[SandMan]

Originally posted by LordOpie
OMG! If one more idiot says it's all about the oil, I'm gonna snap some necks :angry:

Oil is a factor, I'll grant you that, but it's most definitely not the top priority.

And while BS was being sarcastic, he was also serious. And I agree with him.

NK can, should and will be handled diplomatically.

We need to channel money to the inner-city cuz most schools outside of poor areas have the resources they need. Granted, my personal feeling is teachers deserve more money and respect.

1 more thing:

The US now controls the 2nd largest oil reserve in world. The US only buys a small percentage of it's oil in the middle east, this is a fact, but the price of oil is sensitive to what happens to the middle east, which in turn affects the price it costs to full up you SUV, which leaves you with less money to purchase anything else thus affecting the economy.

Very simple and very true.

 

[SandMan]

Originally posted by LordOpie
OMG! If one more idiot says it's all about the oil, I'm gonna snap some necks :angry:

Oil is a factor, I'll grant you that, but it's most definitely not the top priority.

And while BS was being sarcastic, he was also serious. And I agree with him.

NK can, should and will be handled diplomatically.

We need to channel money to the inner-city cuz most schools outside of poor areas have the resources they need. Granted, my personal feeling is teachers deserve more money and respect.

1 last thing:

France and Russia were opposed to this invasion because of oil as well. They did not want the US controlling all that oil, available in Iraq.

Every logical theory points to oil. It's very sad but true.

 

[LordOpie]

SandMan... go count sheep.


When did y'all get so pessimistic.

Ohio, if you hate people, do you hate yourself too?

 

[SandMan]

Originally posted by LordOpie
SandMan... go count sheep.


When did y'all get so pessimistic.

Ohio, if you hate people, do you hate yourself too?

Facts LordOpie, where are yours? Have nothing to say, so you make some dumb comment?

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by SandMan
1 more thing:

The US now controls the 2nd largest oil reserve in world. The US only buys a small percentage of it's oil in the middle east, this is a fact, but the price of oil is sensitive to what happens to the middle east, which in turn affects the price it costs to full up you SUV, which leaves you with less money to purchase anything else thus affecting the economy.

Very simple and very true.

Not so simple and not so true.

Sandman, OPEC still controls the price of oil, and they can keep it wherever the he** they want, regardless of what happens in the middle east. The US doesnt just take the oil they want from Iraq now. You're just assuming that and its an incorrect assumption. This jargon you speak is trite, and frankly, im ready for a new point of view that makes some sense.

 

[Serial Midget]

All US property owners pay property taxes - it's not something you can refuse. My town just voted down a 15 million dollar bond to build a new high school for 300 hundred students... it failed due to a busing issue, most of the students can walk to the current school... why add busing?

I pay over $4,000 a year in property taxes... it's enough.

Originally posted by ohio
None of that goes to schools. Schools only get taxes specifically levied for education. The sad fact is, Americans that don't have children currently in the school system refuse to pay for public schools. As the nation grows older, a smaller and smaller proportion of us have children in K-12...

It's shameful what our public schools have become. A crime against our own country.

I don't know why anyone is suprised that we're rotting away with greed and shortsightedness.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by SandMan
Facts LordOpie, where are yours? Have nothing to say, so you make some dumb comment?

Taking silence as an assumption of ignorance is a mistake on anyone's part.

Besides, I think this has been pretty well beaten to a pulp already. And if you still subscribe to that way of thinking, then would any more information change your mind?

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by SandMan
Facts LordOpie, where are yours? Have nothing to say, so you make some dumb comment?

All ive seen from you is jargon. Not one comment that makes a lick of sense. Your "facts" stand up about as well as your argument here.


Ohio.....if youre serious about hating Americans, it really explains alot of your arguments.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
All US property owners pay property taxes - it's not something you can refuse.

But you DO decide how MUCH you pay in property taxes, and usually when a new property tax bill is on the ballot to benefit schools it gets voted down. Your example is one. Many others involve more essential items such as books and teachers. In my hometown, it came down to heating, lighting, and paper. Our goddamn elementary school couldn't afford PAPER.

 

[DRB]

Originally posted by SandMan
1 last thing:

France and Russia were opposed to this invasion because of oil as well. They did not want the US controlling all that oil, available in Iraq.

Every logical theory points to oil. It's very sad but true.

I don't even know where to start. But let me get this out of the way first. You have no real understanding, actually most don't, of the complexity of how the oil industry works.

What do you think that the US is going to do? Sell itself oil at $1.00 a barrel from Iraq's reserves? Or that it will now build a giant pipeline from Iraq straight to the US. CHEAP OIL is not what anyone is after. Its not in anyone's best interest that cheap oil be available or sold. Thinking that is the case is completely naive on your part. Iraq is still a member of OPEC and will continue to be so. It will be subject to the same production controls that every other member nation is.

The part of that most have missed in this is that other OPEC nations with now suffer a bit because of Iraqi oil coming into the system at the same rate as other nations. In order to maintain pricing and allow Iraq to produce to quota, other nations will have to retard their production numbers without a corresponding price increase. The only reason they have not been screaming to the ends of the earth is that the removal of Saddam will definately bring a greater deal of stability to oil prices.

France and Russian both accepted as payment for the arming of the Iraqi military, oil consessions either to state run oil companies (Russia) or third party billing (France). The contracts were not by any stretch of the imagination very benefical for Iraq. They are way outside the norm of the typical "oil contract". There are so many rumors in the oil industry right now whether those contracts will cancelled outright OR offered up for renegotiation so that they are a better deal for the Iraqi people.

As for the CDMA vs. GSM bill proposed by Darrell Issa to which you pointed. At present the DOD plan called for the installation of a GSM network taking into consideration regional compatibility. The point of the bill (which will probably never pass) is that US taxpayer money that is used to build any sort of cell network should be based on the CDMA standard as the patents are US held where as the GSM patents are European.

It would not stop private companies from installing GSM based systems.

Additionally, you are missing the real point of the bill. Its a run of the mill pork barrel. Qualcomm gets a royality off CDMA technology due to the patents. Guess whose congressional district the headquarters of Qualcomm is located? Already congressmen from Illinois are crafting a counter bill. Why? Motorola, one of the world's largest suppliers of GSM technology, is headquartered there.

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by ohio
But you DO decide how MUCH you pay in property taxes, and usually when a new property tax bill is on the ballot to benefit schools it gets voted down. Your example is one. Many others involve more essential items such as books and teachers. In my hometown, it came down to heating, lighting, and paper. Our goddamn elementary school couldn't afford PAPER.

We have approved an additional $14.00 per $1,000.00 in the last 4 years. Enough was enough... our student body has been shrinking at a predictable rate for 30 years. We approved 5 million to improve the school last year - but the teacher's union was not satisfied - they wanted an additional 15!!! Sometimes you just have to make due with what is available.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Sometimes you just have to make due with what is available.

Gotcha...

However, I have a feeling your system is not the norm. There are always exceptions. The local highschool in the town I work in now rivals most private schools in the country (as do schools in towns like La Jolla).

The same can not be said of the town next door where I live, or most non-suburban schools in the country.

 

[Westy]

Originally posted by ohio
Wow, this is going off topic.

Focus, people: I hate Americans. Discuss.

I personally hate people, for a species that is supposed to be smart we happen to do really stupid things. We just happen to be surrounded by Americans so it seems like Americans suck more. In reality Americans suck the same if not a little less than other people.

My county just voted down a $15 million proposition to put an extension on the local high school and hire more teachers. This school district has a notoriously bad reputation for stupid teachers and stupid students. The proposition was shot down. Most people I knew voted no because they have no children. When they have children they plan on moving into a different school district. Where I live property taxes are rediculously low. The increase in Taxes would have cost me about $50/year. In my mind totally worth it if it keeps a few of these morons off the street and gives them a chance in life. Everyone I know who voted No spends an additional $30/month on HBO and other movie channels It is their choice what they do with their money, but all of these folks are extremely successful partly because of the quality public educations they received. They need to spend more time teaching people how to share in kindergarten.

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by SandMan
Facts LordOpie, where are yours? Have nothing to say, so you make some dumb comment?

You call your vague accusations facts? bwahahahaha

T-O-O-L....come on class say it with me now....


the two nations you cited were in fact involved in the oil venture. they had contracts WITH iraq to get el cheapo oil from them. they were not innocent.



yes, the school system is in dire straits but decreasing the size of our military is not the answer. i honestly can't offer a solution either, but i do know that if you have to sell the farm you still have to keep your shotgun to ward off the wolves.

 

[Serial Midget]

I get basic cable at $10.95...

I just checked the actual figures - the levy was to be 22.2 million or an addional $671.00 per year on a $100,000.00 home. Total cost for the proposed school was estimated to be 47 million to include the demolition of the existing school.

The issue was not really about not wanting a new school - one of the existing buildings was destroyed by a fire last year - everyone agrees that a replacement building is needed. The problem was in the school board choosing the most expensive available property and bucking for way more than is needed.

The High School in the neighboring town was designed for future growth and 1250 students in the 1980's. The school has NEVER served more than 700 students and currently serves less than 600. Our town has the exact same demographics.


Here is a link to the news story.

 

[Serial Midget]

BTW - the High School they want to tear down was attended by Kurt Cobain... I think we should keep it for historical value - he peed in the urinals and sprayed graffiti on the walls.

 

[LordOpie]

SandMan, was this your first on-line gangbang?

Don't worry, it gets easier

My goal is to learn something every time I say something stupid. That's why I'm always making dumb@ss comments! Me's gettin' smarta eberyday.

 

[Thepagoda]

I posted a thred on here about a month ago about the shambles of our system, education being one of the more important aspects I attempted to bring into the debate. most of the response seemed to be that I was 1. a pu$$y for not being over in Iraq, and not being proud of my country, and 2. I was an embarrassment to this nation for thinking about considering the wrong implications of the current route of spending.

People in the US take a lot of things for granted. I know because I'm one of them. I take my education for granted, I take my clean running water and right to vote for granted, but just because they have always been there doesn't mean that they always will be. It is no secret that our education system is failing. Charging money for bussing is one sign that problems are rising, but the level of education is also astonishing. It turns out that in a recent study (I don't remember the exact date, but last decade to be sure) that only 40% of Adult americans couldn't actually understand a product warrantee card, and something like 70% couldn't compute the change that they should recieve correctly. 95% couldn't graph and understand data correlation charts (you know like the plot that shows the relationship between two variables). Those are some pretty poor results for a national literacy study. Nonetheless, the point remains, and this is what I stressed before, Americans clearly aren't concerned about America. WMD? how about fighting ignorance and crime with world strategic positioning, antifrench sentiment, a few million barrels of oil, a JDAM and some supplemented Freedom fries.

If the future and education of our children is not important, then what is the point? I can't believe this, we are turning our back on the people who cared for us and brought us up (social security...) and we are failing those that are the future of this country (education...).

Something interesting occurred in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. to stimulate the economy a bill was passed by the bush team with incentives for owning SUVs. Funny that SUVs should be selected as that would mean that on average more money would be spent by drivers of SUVs on to reduce expendable income (commuting cost) and less could be spent on service oreinted industries such as restaurants, movies and vacations. These "Keep America Rolling" campaigns did indeed save some jobs, but what if that money had been spent on something like say, increased federal work. that means that instead of spending the government's tax surplus trying to stimulate the economy with smog, superior infrastructure could have been developed. Money could have been spent on new roads, schools and bridges (more jobs, but not new cars). So now its time to look back and see what we got. we got no new schools, we got no new roads, we got nothing except a lot more gas guzzling SUVs polluting the air we all take for granted.

End_rant.exe

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by ohio
Wow, this is going off topic.

Focus, people: I hate Americans. Discuss.

You guys ain't so different, you just got more of everything to get greedy with.

Why are many people here in the UK afraid of the EU? It's fear that what they have may be devalued or taken away from them, greed in another form. That's why people don't want to pay for others' kids to be educated.

So if I am childless, should I pay taxes that go to fund other peoples' kids education? On the surface I might be tempted to say no, but that misses the big picture and the whole point of society.

Of course, it works both ways, if pay for some kid's education, then I want him to help me out when I'm old and senile (by paying his taxes for that when he's got a good job).

There again, that's getting dangerously close to socialism which I hear doesn't fly too well in the US these days (or even in Lord Tony's New Labour party).

 

[DRB]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
The issue was not really about not wanting a new school - one of the existing buildings was destroyed by a fire last year - everyone agrees that a replacement building is needed. The problem was in the school board choosing the most expensive available property and bucking for way more than is needed.

Did anyone notice the other part of the bill in the article. "a fire - suppression system at Miller Junior High" I guess they will just have to make due without one of those pesky sprinkler systems.

Or this line "We are just so, so happy," Gordon said. "When they give their concession speech, we'd like to sit down and talk with them. We promise not to gloat."

The defeat a bond to build a school and provide fire protection for another is cause to be happy. Seems to me I would be spouting off about the disappointment that a better bond couldn't be put forth or something of the nature. Looks like this guy just wanted to win. I'm sure any negotiations will go swimmingly with him involved.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Thepagoda
...and something like 70% couldn't compute the change that they should recieve correctly.

I find that hard to believe, but let's run with that for a moment...

While I agree the system could be better, there's also the concept of personal responsibility. Suppose that figure of 70% is accurate... does that mean that 70% of our schools don't have the resources necessary to educate?

If that figure is true, then I'd have to say that at least half of those people are lazy fvcks who need a boot upside their head.

If someone reading this can't do simple math, then take it upon yourself to learn... go to a public library and ask them about the resources out there to help you.

 

[DRB]

Originally posted by fluff
There again, that's getting dangerously close to socialism which I hear doesn't fly too well in the US these days (or even in Lord Tony's New Labour party). [/B]

In essence the US education system is socialist in nature. Most folks just don't recognize it as such. A combination of government agencies pays for the primary education of every single child the the US without regard to what those students (or parents) put into the system. There are private alternatives that parents have the option of sending their children to if they choose to do so and have the money to pay for it.

The only problem is that the whole system gets retarded, as schools within a district (at least here) don't get equal resources. It never fails that the schools in more affluent areas get more. This became more pronounced with busing being eliminated from the system.

 

[SandMan]

Originally posted by LordOpie
Taking silence as an assumption of ignorance is a mistake on anyone's part.

Besides, I think this has been pretty well beaten to a pulp already.

I have not even began. More on that later.

Originally posted by LordOpie
And if you still subscribe to that way of thinking, then would any more information change your mind?

Actually some facts, would actually change my mind. If the US really leaves Iraq within the next 6 months, find WMD, keeps current oil contracts and let's the UN along with the US rebuild Iraq, then I will admit that I am wrong.


There is no need for name calling, because it just shows what class you guys are really from. Make some constructive comments and not unsults.

In have nothing more to add to this thread in regards to the war.




As for the education system, if the government insists on keeping such a huge military, then maybe they should raise some taxes. In addition they should not give such huge take breaks to the rich. Take a look to this article from CNN.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by SandMan

In have nothing more to add to this thread in regards to the war.

]

Thats what id say if every point i had just got shot down.

Why would you only change your mind then? Havent we just shown you that you've got things wrong? Tell me where youre still confused so we can clear that up for ya.

 

[Thepagoda]

While I most certainly agree that a large percentage of the students are just "lazy fvcks," there is the inherent problem of motivation. that is one of the most important factors in eductaion. I'm sure everybody has had the one teacher that actually made math cool, or that brought some light into the purpose of studying ancient european history. the problem remains though, that with our teacher's salaries so low it is a fall back position. nobody with a college degree, save for the real philanthropists, wants to deal with up to 70 yelling, angry, screaming, depressed or insubordinate youths for what amounts to peanuts. However up the ante and you'll see that people are willing to spend their entire day looking at other people's anuses and penises (proctologists and urologists) for what amounts to considerablely more money and social status. While it is true that there is disparity in the level of education that is achieved between doctors and teachers, consider the motivation: money. I was making more than a teacher's salary working construction with no college degree.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by SandMan
I have not even began. More on that later.

Then you said...

In have nothing more to add to this thread in regards to the war.

So which is it?

Originally posted by SandMan
If the US really leaves Iraq within the next 6 months, find WMD, keeps current oil contracts and let's the UN along with the US rebuild Iraq, then I will admit that I am wrong.

Whew! That's a relief... you'll admit you're wrong. I was worried there for a minute. Got news for ya... no one cares if you admit you're wrong

Originally posted by Thepagoda
I'm sure everybody has had the one teacher that actually made math cool, or...

the problem remains though, that with our teacher's salaries so low it is a fall back position.

I agree completely. I not only think teachers should get paid more to encourage "better" teachers to leave whatever industry they're in to come teach, but I think the current teachers are not getting properly compensated for one of the most important jobs in the world.


I jokingly say...

The ERA is the downfall of America. If women weren't accepted as doctors, lawyers, astronauts, whatever, then those women would still hold those stereotypical nuturing positions such as school teachers.

It's great that women have greater opportunities today, but with women doing higher paying jobs, there pool of women teachers has shrunk. As you said, we need to encourage people back to teaching.

Please note, I don't want that to sound like I'm ripping on current teachers.

 

[SandMan]

Originally posted by LordOpie
Then you said...
So which is it?


Whew! That's a relief... you'll admit you're wrong. I was worried there for a minute. Got news for ya... no one cares if you admit you're wrong

What happens if I am proved right? This goes for you and BurlySurly. Only time will tell.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by SandMan
What happens if I am proved right? This goes for you and BurlySurly. Only time will tell.

I think we all have an over-inflated sense of worth here. If you're proven right... umm, so?

The point of these discussions is to consider other points of views, offer yours for consideration, consider, consider, and for some, re-evaluate, re-verify, recycle, reuse, reorder condoms... wait, that goes on shopping list. Where was I? Oh yeah... except for you, cuz you're, of course, correct in your assumptions.

Since this has been discussed thoroughly and there's nothing new for me to consider, I'm just going to...

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Wanna talk about the education system?

The system made me a smart4ss... sometimes I'm smart, but mostly I'm an...

 

[Skookum]

The whole world is completely screwed. And you wanna know who to blame?
C'mon y'know who's to blame......