Why would you choose a Fox 40 over a Boxxer?
- Thread starter astoria
- Start date
and less stiction
And not made by rock****s
never!
the 2011 R2C2 is so plush !!
the 2011 R2C2 is so plush !!
In favour of the 40:
- Less stiction
- More usable range of compression damping with less harshness
- Better rebound damping - the Boxxer's dual adjuster thing sounds great but in reality confuses people and is ineffective. The 40's rebound damping is just dialled and has a surprisingly wide usable range.
- Less prone to bushing play in my experience
- More nicely made IMO
- Stiffer
- 5mm hardware everywhere
- No Maxle
In favour of the Boxxer:
- Seals that are marginally less craptacular than the 40. Don't get me wrong, seals on both forks are pretty bad, but the 40 is worse.
- Stanchions that don't wear out/score so fast
- Easier to work on, no need to bleed the damper
- Lighter
In my experience the Boxxer is a slightly more stout fork than the 40; the seals last longer and it has less wear issues with stanchions/bushings than the 40s, but the 40 is IMO hands down the nicer-riding fork. New ones actually seem to have plenty of compression damping available too, which was my biggest gripe with the old ones.
- Less stiction
- More usable range of compression damping with less harshness
- Better rebound damping - the Boxxer's dual adjuster thing sounds great but in reality confuses people and is ineffective. The 40's rebound damping is just dialled and has a surprisingly wide usable range.
- Less prone to bushing play in my experience
- More nicely made IMO
- Stiffer
- 5mm hardware everywhere
- No Maxle
In favour of the Boxxer:
- Seals that are marginally less craptacular than the 40. Don't get me wrong, seals on both forks are pretty bad, but the 40 is worse.
- Stanchions that don't wear out/score so fast
- Easier to work on, no need to bleed the damper
- Lighter
In my experience the Boxxer is a slightly more stout fork than the 40; the seals last longer and it has less wear issues with stanchions/bushings than the 40s, but the 40 is IMO hands down the nicer-riding fork. New ones actually seem to have plenty of compression damping available too, which was my biggest gripe with the old ones.
have you tried the 2011 boxxers?
I'm not a fan of either, but I see more broken 40's at the mountain.
When you are in the mtn parking lot with a broken fork, you have to remember one very important fact:
You have a broken fork & cannot ride today...
When you are in the mtn parking lot with a broken fork, you have to remember one very important fact:
You have a broken fork & cannot ride today...
+1 on this. OT. how can you lessen stiction on 2010 boxxers?
Are they WCs or Teams?
if you feel that you are experiencing stiction, i would...(and i mean no disrespect as to your suspension knowledge)
check that your sag is set appropriately
check that your low speed compression isn't set too high
then...
take the lowers off, wipe clean the stanchions and inside of the lowers. apply judy butter or other appropriate suspension grease to the seals.
reseat your stanchions into the lowers, fill with the appropriate amount of lubrication oil.
i do this 2-3 times a season, more if you ride in muddy conditions often. this keeps the stiction monster away.
i do like the fox 40...but i read that it was harder to work on, and the wider stance will result in much more scrapes on the lowers for a hack like me.
the boxxer is super easy to work on and maintain. i have no doubt that the 40 may have more discernable/usable adjustments, but my world cup has worked awesomely for me and will continue to do so (knock on wood) for next season.
check that your sag is set appropriately
check that your low speed compression isn't set too high
then...
take the lowers off, wipe clean the stanchions and inside of the lowers. apply judy butter or other appropriate suspension grease to the seals.
reseat your stanchions into the lowers, fill with the appropriate amount of lubrication oil.
i do this 2-3 times a season, more if you ride in muddy conditions often. this keeps the stiction monster away.
i do like the fox 40...but i read that it was harder to work on, and the wider stance will result in much more scrapes on the lowers for a hack like me.
the boxxer is super easy to work on and maintain. i have no doubt that the 40 may have more discernable/usable adjustments, but my world cup has worked awesomely for me and will continue to do so (knock on wood) for next season.
- User-serviceable with all documentation available online
- More factory tuning options(PUSH 32mm kit, Avalanche, CR-1, granted the avalanche kit is coming to the 40s soon and fox offers factory tuning)
Some things to add for the boxxer(from personal experience w/my boxxer)
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I own a 888 and a 40 and have ridden a 2010 Boxxer WC. I agree, the 40 has better damping.
I did rebuild my boxxers for like 6 times this year. Im also a weekend rider so rebuilding doesn't need to be often. One significant point i noticed between a boxxer and a fox is the stiction. there is way less stiction on the 40 (well, at least the one i've tried) compared to boxxers.if you feel that you are experiencing stiction, i would...(and i mean no disrespect as to your suspension knowledge)
check that your sag is set appropriately
check that your low speed compression isn't set too high
then...
take the lowers off, wipe clean the stanchions and inside of the lowers. apply judy butter or other appropriate suspension grease to the seals.
reseat your stanchions into the lowers, fill with the appropriate amount of lubrication oil.
i do this 2-3 times a season, more if you ride in muddy conditions often. this keeps the stiction monster away.
i do like the fox 40...but i read that it was harder to work on, and the wider stance will result in much more scrapes on the lowers for a hack like me.
the boxxer is super easy to work on and maintain. i have no doubt that the 40 may have more discernable/usable adjustments, but my world cup has worked awesomely for me and will continue to do so (knock on wood) for next season.
another noticable point is the damping of the 40s. hi/low speed adjustments are noticable with few clicks (or is it placebo effect)
i don't know. but i really like the 40's over boxxers in terms of less stiction and noticable damper adjsutments.
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this might change my mind. i mean, boxxer externals are good. 35mm stanchions, 2 crown options, maxle. i think boxxer damping internals needs improvments. then again, boxxers are used by most top downhill riders. im confused...
methinks SRAM has deeper pockets to sponsor more teams.this might change my mind. i mean, boxxer externals are good. 35mm stanchions, 2 crown options, maxle. i think boxxer damping internals needs improvments. then again, boxxers are used by most top downhill riders. im confused...
Those top riders have their own mechanics who rebuild them every race and custom tune them for each course. They will be fast on ANY of the options out there.then again, boxxers are used by most top downhill riders. im confused...
Works the same for frames, put any top 20 guy on a bike and he'll be fast.
I wouldn't
Yeap, as tempting as it is to get a Boxxer because all the top guys run it, prob the worst reason to get a Boxxer over a 40
.. I'm wondering how the improvements with the '11 Boxxer stack up against the '11 40(other than the kashima coating, and relocation of the adjustment knobs was there any internal changes?)..
the one thing I hate about the boxxers is the maxle. I get that its lighter, but I just like the old system better (20 mm axel and clamping bolts), I felt it was way stiffer. If you already have a dh bike / fork, its not like your going to be changing or dismounting your wheel every other ride... just my 2c
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Other than what is above, Boxxer is significantly lighter especially World Cup version. And Bullcrew's WC w/ Avalanche internals felt pretty good if you are going to go this route. And has anyone tried Enduro seals on Fox 40? Should get rid of leaking.
All top guys on Boxxers? The Athertons, Trek, Yeti, Lapierre are all on Fox. I would say it is split pretty even.Yeap, as tempting as it is to get a Boxxer because all the top guys run it, prob the worst reason to get a Boxxer over a 40
Concerning stiction: the Boxxers that are run in the group I ride with are on average smoother than the 40s. Also there seems to be less variation how the Boxxers feel in comparison to the 40s. With the Fox it seems to be hit or miss. But to be honest, nothing can touch the 888s for smoothness.
The 40 is like a dating a redhead. Sure, it can be fun, but it requires more maintenance to keep things running smooth.
I have been running a 2010 Boxxer Team this season and I think it's a brilliant fork. Stiction issues went away after I updated the rebound seal head to the latest iteration from SRAM. Make sure you pull the sealhead off the rod and put some Slick Honey or similar grease on the o-rings and seals. Also, pack the space in the main oil seals with Slick Honey and stiction will be non-existent.
I agree that the dual-flow rebound is not very effective or at least it is hard to tell exactly what the end-of-travel adjuster is doing. The early-travel rebound acts as expected and it controls most of the demeanor of the fork.
One thing I really like about this fork is how easy it is to customize the "high-speed" compression shim stack. It's a reasonably deep stack and there is a bit of extra space on the threaded rod so it can even get a tad deeper as well.
I agree that the dual-flow rebound is not very effective or at least it is hard to tell exactly what the end-of-travel adjuster is doing. The early-travel rebound acts as expected and it controls most of the demeanor of the fork.
One thing I really like about this fork is how easy it is to customize the "high-speed" compression shim stack. It's a reasonably deep stack and there is a bit of extra space on the threaded rod so it can even get a tad deeper as well.
Best quote ever, just cause I've dated a redhead before.
Anyone run their boxxer with enduro seals? What makes the enduro seals so much better than stock seals?
http://service.foxracingshox.com/consumers/index.htm
Click Service- Forks- 40
It's all in there. Granted it's more of a b***h, and you need more tools and seals, it's still user serviceable with a slightly mechanically inclined person.
I love my 40. Everything I dislike about it has been fixed for 2011.
I have owned 2 Boxxers now, (2010 team and 2010 WC) the team never felt right to me. it was a great fork and everything worked but it never felt 100% dialed. that being said my new Boxxer WC corrected all the problems i had with the team. very smooth and very easy to get dialed in.
I have spent a good amount of time on a hand full of friends 40's (similar weight and riding style) and IMO the do not compare to the feeling of my boxxer.
I have spent a good amount of time on a hand full of friends 40's (similar weight and riding style) and IMO the do not compare to the feeling of my boxxer.
2011 40 should have less unsprung weight when compared to the 2010 (or at least thats what i have been hearing)
Id also give the 40 a + for still being "heavy" i have seen alot of broken boxxers this year, granted none of it was internals, it was all crowns and clamps, but maybe less isnt more?
Id also give the 40 a + for still being "heavy" i have seen alot of broken boxxers this year, granted none of it was internals, it was all crowns and clamps, but maybe less isnt more?
Boxxorz for the winz
I really dont think "Can have completely different new internals put in to make it a totally different fork" Is grounds for the boxxer to be better.
ive had 09 40's, i loved them.
Ive also had 07 Boxxer races, 09 Teams, 2010 Races and 2010 Teams, and the 40 beats them all.
ive had 09 40's, i loved them.
Ive also had 07 Boxxer races, 09 Teams, 2010 Races and 2010 Teams, and the 40 beats them all.
What are the changes made to the 40s across the years? That always confused the hell outta me.. Can someone breakdown the changes over the years, or post a link where it breaks down the changes?
not that many changes. I think they were unchanged from after the first year which was '06 I think, so '07 until '09 or '10 they are more or less identical
2011 uses a larger and reworked bladder that is no longer contained within the cartridge. Supposedly this solves the bladder eating issue. I'm not sure if they changed the stock valving at all.Yeap, as tempting as it is to get a Boxxer because all the top guys run it, prob the worst reason to get a Boxxer over a 40
I'm wondering how the improvements with the '11 Boxxer stack up against the '11 40(other than the kashima coating, and relocation of the adjustment knobs was there any internal changes?)..
Boxxers
I find the 40s a little too stiff and i like the slight flex you get from the boxxer. I found with 40s when you caught the edge of your front tire on rocks with the 40 id be thrown off line as were with the Boxxer there is a little bit of give which keeps you going in a straight line. The damping in the 2010s and after was a huge upgrade over the older ones. Having owned the 09 world cups and riding 40s and finding them an upgrade worth considering. Since i got the 2010 Boxxers i haven't ridden a set of 40s and found them in anyway better. If you consider the boxxer teams or r2 c2 being a more comparable fork to the 40 than the world cup I can't see there being any advantage with the 40s to justify the extra money.
I find the 40s a little too stiff and i like the slight flex you get from the boxxer. I found with 40s when you caught the edge of your front tire on rocks with the 40 id be thrown off line as were with the Boxxer there is a little bit of give which keeps you going in a straight line. The damping in the 2010s and after was a huge upgrade over the older ones. Having owned the 09 world cups and riding 40s and finding them an upgrade worth considering. Since i got the 2010 Boxxers i haven't ridden a set of 40s and found them in anyway better. If you consider the boxxer teams or r2 c2 being a more comparable fork to the 40 than the world cup I can't see there being any advantage with the 40s to justify the extra money.
so a flexy fork is good thing? i never thought the 40 was too stiff for me. how much do you weigh?
I currently own a 40 but I'm thinking about making the switch to a world cup. The only big advantage I can see is the airspring and the weight savings. I've always liked the feel of an airspring over a coil.
With the AVA cartridge coming out for the 40, I don't have to worry about the bladder issue anymore, but my stanchions are starting to get old so I will probably have to replace those within 2 years. After replacing the stanchions and upgrading to the AVA cartridge, I'm looking at the same price it would cost me to get a WC. I'm used to the extra stiffness of the 40. I rode a friends 32mm boxxer for a day and it felt noticeably less solid. I haven't been on a 2010 so I don't know if the 35mm switch makes up for the difference
With the AVA cartridge coming out for the 40, I don't have to worry about the bladder issue anymore, but my stanchions are starting to get old so I will probably have to replace those within 2 years. After replacing the stanchions and upgrading to the AVA cartridge, I'm looking at the same price it would cost me to get a WC. I'm used to the extra stiffness of the 40. I rode a friends 32mm boxxer for a day and it felt noticeably less solid. I haven't been on a 2010 so I don't know if the 35mm switch makes up for the difference
I think it does.
Rode my friend's '10 Boxxer Team, felt noticeably stiffer than previous Boxxers.
I have been less than impressed with the feel of any of the new Rock Shox forks though. I've owned a 2007 Totem Solo Air, 2009 Lyrik U-Turn (with and without the upgraded DH damper) and I've done a few runs on a '10 Lyrik 170 and a '10 Boxxer Team.
Maybe because I'm used to the older Marzocchi forks, but they all felt a bit harsh, no matter what we did to them. I had to run all the settings out, lighter springs, less oil and they still felt too harsh.
I rode a 2007 40...that fork felt awesome. But it was fragile, the thin lowers dented/tore too easily. Haven't tried the new stuff.
I miss my old 2006 888RC. That fork was awesome. Just heavy and would dive under braking like my old Monster T.
From My experience.
Fox 40:
+1 superior damping
+1 stiffness
+1 less stiction
+1 small bump
+1 fork showing up not broken out of the box
-1 weight
-1 fragile lowers
-fragile bottom out
2010 boxxer team (based on 1 ride)
+1 ease of service
+after market options
+1 direct mount stem (useless comparison now)
-1 bottom out (spring side bumper wtf?)
-1 maxle
-1 worst casting ever
-1 that I like my manipoo travis way better than this fork.
Ive also seen way less structural issues with the 40 in comparison to the boxxer. I think i dont really care for any RS product either. I dont like the totem and I hated my vivid.
Fox 40:
+1 superior damping
+1 stiffness
+1 less stiction
+1 small bump
+1 fork showing up not broken out of the box
-1 weight
-1 fragile lowers
-fragile bottom out
2010 boxxer team (based on 1 ride)
+1 ease of service
+after market options
+1 direct mount stem (useless comparison now)
-1 bottom out (spring side bumper wtf?)
-1 maxle
-1 worst casting ever
-1 that I like my manipoo travis way better than this fork.
Ive also seen way less structural issues with the 40 in comparison to the boxxer. I think i dont really care for any RS product either. I dont like the totem and I hated my vivid.