cougars are much harder to scrore
Windham USA World Cup ..on or off?!
- Thread starter Tiago79
- Start date
pumas stone, not the large predatory cat. 
I'll tell you what doesn't add up. You just based the your impression of American tracks on one rather unique mountain in Northern California. In a nation with a dozen mountain ranges, just under 500 ski resorts, a land area only about 150,000 square miles smaller than all or Europe, and a geography arguably more diverse, do you really think that makes sense? The same mountains that are home to the Whistler bike park and Bromont/MSA World Cups extend well into the US; mountains, of course, have no appreciation for international boundaries.
One of the steepest, most technical tracks ever (the Champery of its time) was in Snoqualmie Pass, Washington only 45 minutes outside of Seattle. No surprise it was Steve Peat's first win.
as for yet another tired, misguided comparison between DH and F1, I can't be bothered . . . .
Ummmm I think you must have been riding the beginner trails at Mammoth or something (which admittedly is easy to end up doing - the trails are marked like total crap). Northstar is flat and smoother and easy, just has some chop and occasional rocky sections. If that's representative of European WC tracks then the videos sure do a great job of making them look about 100x harder than they actually are. There's some sections at Mammoth that are harder than anything at Northstar. The old pro course at Mammoth makes Northstar look like a flat paved road, or most other US resorts for that matter.
I can say True to this as well. I went to 2 of those races thanks to Michelin. Great times!!! The cool thing was all the tail gating going on. It was like being at a football game, just bigger. Everyone there was dressed up in their team colors and cheering them on.
I hope that I get to make another race sometime in the future....
As for DH racing in the US. Well a friend of mine said it best! If there was a Lance Armstrong of the US racing DH, then we would see some things change here. Look what he has done for Road biking in the US. The same as Tony Hawk did for Skate Boarding and Dave Mirra did for BMX freestyle. Their sports were dead before they made it big. They helped reshape their sports and help bring the sponsors back. For now its NASCAR, Football, Baseball, etc.
Cecil
Flatstar? Clearly you haven't been to a modern WC track in Europe or Canada then. Each of us likes to think our local trails are just like the classic WC tracks, but they aren't.
I think you mean pumice. Pumas are shoes, or cats.pumas stone, not the large predatory cat.
Yeah adopt a name given by skiers for the SKI terrain compared to places like squaw, alpine meadows and kirkwood, and just pretend it has something to do with bikes. Good plan.
Northstar has plenty of really good pitch for dh trails. The problem is just that none of the existing routes stay on them for very long without zig zagging all over the place. Wouldn't be hard to just join up some of the existing steep sections for a more sustained pitch fest.
You really think bromont or mount saint anne are steeper? They're not.
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thank you. spoken from someone who has clearly biked there, not just talked to the bro-brah ski-bags that overwhelm this region.
Yer, OK. I agree the race was always a success, but eventually it all boiled down to the coorporations wanting more cash...
True that. I can think of a couple places around the states that would be somewhat representative of a WC track, and they aren't everyone's local spots I keep reading about on here.
That's why Dogbone is the only trail I ride there besides Karp.
Bromont looks like it's steeper for sure. Probably not Mt. St. Anne,
well this spot you "keep reading about" is an enormous resort capable of such an event, both in terrain and accommodations (it seems as though you've been there so this shouldn't come as a shock). But I guess you only ride Karp and Dogbone so you must rule. You zinged me though, you must be core bro.
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I've been to Northstar, plenty. It would sure have the accommodations for it, but hardly the trails. It basically needs a fall-line built down the hardest sections on the hill for a WC caliber course.
Don't underestimate me... I'm SO 'core brah...b!tches don't know.
Don't underestimate me... I'm SO 'core brah...b!tches don't know.
I really don't know what they've done with the bike trails because I've only skied at both places. It's obviously more in line with what the UCI looks for I guess (along with all the zillions of other things that come into play).
But they both seemed like flat assed east coast mountains with just a bunch of ski paths cut through trees.......JUST LIKE NORTHSTAR
EDIT: I don't even know why I'm typing this. Northstar under its current management would NEVER EVER in million years try to host a UCI event. And for all my complaints with how the place is run, that's one where I really can't blame them. Downhill Ben summed that part up pretty succinctly I think.
I have always felt that it would only take minor mapping to make a wc caliber course there.The Karpiel/Dogbone,/Sticks&Stones area would be ideal in my opinion, especially when it is compared to places like MSA. I'm not underestimating you, it just turns out that most people on bike forums talk directly out their 17 year old ass...With all this being said, there is no way a place this far west in America is going to hold an event a week after MSA. If Windham doest happen, I really don't see this WC at any other place than Bromont.
Yeah I'd agree with that, particularly MSA. Looks fast and rough, sure, and a decent grade for a DH course, but it seems so well built/laid out that it makes up for the lack of steepness. Looks like you COULD make it to the bottom fast without much pedaling except out of the gate. Helmet cams of the Bromont WC course looked a lot steeper in the wooded sections, even though every other helmet cam I've seen of the place looks pretty mellow.I really don't know what they've done with the bike trails because I've only skied at both places. It's obviously more in line with what the UCI looks for I guess (along with all the zillions of other things that come into play).
But they both seemed like flat assed east coast mountains with just a bunch of ski paths cut through trees.......JUST LIKE NORTHSTAR
EDIT: I don't even know why I'm typing this. Northstar under its current management would NEVER EVER in million years try to host a UCI event. And for all my complaints with how the place is run, that's one where I really can't blame them. Downhill Ben summed that part up pretty succinctly I think.
I'm curious about that oldschool Squaw Valley WC. I've always wanted to go up there and see if the course could still be found/ridden. Keep hearing horror stories about it, but that was a course that was run, what, almost 10 years ago? Completely different ballgame these days.
I agree that most WC courses are probably a bit steeper than some of the mountains mentioned in the U.S. But I said it before and I'll say it again, Canberra proved you DON'T need Alpine mountains to put on a good show. That race was amazing with almost no steep sections, very little vert, and lots of pedaling.
1998. I went and looked for it when I first moved here in 2000. Definitely steep and gnarly. Definitely completely grown over now.
But again.....who cares about steepness. Where were the world champs this year and one world cup last year held? The lesson I take from that is that terrain has very little to do with venue choice in some cases. EDIT: what he^ said.
There's just no money in it here to motivate someone to do what it takes to host. And THAT is what the american way is in a nutshell.
I do hahaha.
did either of you attend the Squaw WC in '98? I have asked at least 10 riding buddies out here about it and it is apparently news to most of them. VERY curious as to what that was like. Long before I moved here, just curious as to what the spectator turn out was for such an occasion.
hmmmmmm
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Exactly.....both flat as shlt east coast style hills.
You blow up that northstar map to a similar scale as windham and they're pretty much indistinguishable.....discounting the 'steep' side of northstar where none of the bike trails are.
Lower left zone is the where the old squaw course is for reference. Definitely different.
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Shhhh!
exactly.Exactly.....both flat as shlt east coast style hills.
You blow up that northstar map to a similar scale as windham and they're pretty much indistinguishable.
See above
edit: i searched all over for any footage of the Squaw track from '99. No luck. I remember watching it on TV and again in some video (Real Sick?), pretty nasty for its day especially being as loose as it is out there.
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If steepness is somehow the only requirement for 'uci style' courses, you guys on the east coast need to get out to tuckerman's ravine this summer and get that trail in!
In meantime I'll get a course scratched in on the palisades at squaw. Tires won't even touch dirt for about 70 feet off the start. The UCI just CAN'T say no!
In meantime I'll get a course scratched in on the palisades at squaw. Tires won't even touch dirt for about 70 feet off the start. The UCI just CAN'T say no!
I kinda want to know what the turn out was at Squaw . Its crazy they had a 6 hour xc race here on L.I. two weeks ago ,they got 200+ riders and guess who won? Derrick Nobman(pro dh'er on a SS
.This is the first race this promoter ever put up, it was a grass roots project not bad for the first time and was a usac event. My point is there are some eager promoters out there that can put us back on the map, with venues that are willing. too bad it came down to the 11th hour. Now there was talk of puma can we please see some Cougar pic's!!!!! It would be a nice change
Just to play, I don't see bromont or msa on 3dskimaps.comSee above
Just tried looking a bit too, couldn't find anything. There was some Youtube or Broadband sports channel that had highlights from all the WC's through the 90's that I was trying to find, but no such luck.
Stikman, you know where to find any of this stuff?
One of the coolest courses I've ridden was Upper Velocity at Mammoth. It was fairly easy to tell where the start was. It's the only sanctioned racecourse I've ever seen that had braking skidmarks out of the gate.....fvcking awesome. That one sorted the men from the boys very easily.
No, but you will find Killington, Jay, Sugarbush, Mad River, and Sugarloaf. All pretty much on par with both.
Anyway, all sort of silly, but it started with someone proclaiming Northstar was somehow as tech as any Euro WC round and went on from there.
Will never figure out what it is about that place that everyone from there loves and visitors can't seem to figure out. Not a bad place to ride by any means but its online rep seems to be awfully inflated.
It's the fact that nowhere else in the Bay area has anything rocky or technical at all. Just relative perspective.
Nope. You missed it if you're referring to me. My point was only that there's nothing about the pitch of northstar that is is any different than other mountains that regularly host UCI races. I'm not saying that because I love the place, I'm saying that because I've been to Bromont and Mt saint anne, and as far as pitch alone goes, they're indistinguishable. And that your 'flatstar' label comes from skiers, not anything to do with the biking there. That's just the truth. Surely you understand the difference.
I'd never defend a mountain that as a business and as a form of biking infrastructure flails so wholeheartedly and fully as that place. I for one see that place as so much wasted potential it makes me sick to my stomach.
EDIT: Plus what hack said^
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there is a bike trail on tucks??????? WOAHF
what do you think, 55 or 56 degree head angle? I can't decide.
We're off topic, but Windham was getting boring anyway . . . life supports about run out and we're all just sitting around waiting for it to die anyway.
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Stay away from giant.
I just typed in "1999 squaw valley + uci + mtb" into google images and this is one of the pics that came up.
No wonder no one takes this sport seriously.
Optional base jumping pack? I haven't ever seen them without snow but I am sure that it would be insane.
Anyway, I don't get this whole needs to be steep BS. Big balls, no brains or go home.
So where's the race? I just read another 5 pages and don't see it. Nice pic above btw. That's the best thing Squaw has going for it verses Alpine Meadows.