[N8 v2.0]

Woman Fired For Eating 'Unclean' Meat
Attorney: 'It's A Classic Case Of Religious Discrimination'
August 4, 2004

ORLANDO, Fla. -- A Central Florida woman was fired from her job after eating "unclean" meat and violating a reported company policy that pork and pork products are not permissible on company premises, according to Local 6 News.

Lina Morales was hired as an administrative assistant at Rising Star -- a Central Florida telecommunications company with strong Muslim ties, Local 6 News reported.

However, 10 months after being hired by Rising Star, religious differences led to her termination.

Morales, who is Catholic, was warned about eating pizza with meat the Muslim faith considered "unclean," Local 6 News reported. She was then fired for eating a bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwich, according to the report.

"Are you telling me they fired you because you had something with ham on it?" Local 6 News reporter Mike Holfeld asked.

"Yes," Morales said.

Holfeld asked, "A pizza and a BLT sandwich?"

" Yes," Morales said.

Local 6 News obtained the termination letter that states she was fired for refusing to comply with company policy that pork and pork products are not permissible on company premises.

However, by the company's own admission to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, that policy is not written, Local 6 News reported.

"Did you ever sign to or agree to anything that said I will not eat pork?" Holfeld asked Morales.

"Never," Morales said. "When I got hired there, they said we don't care what religion you are."

Attorney Travis Hollifield is representing Morales in a lawsuit against the company.

"It's just un-American," Hollifield said. "It's not in compliance with the laws of this country."

Local 6 News reported that the case has precedent-setting issues because it addresses employee rights and religion in the workplace.

"It's a classic case of religious discrimination," Hollifield said. "They have not articulated a single reason other than religious reason behind the policy."

The CEO of Rising Star, Kujaatele Kweli, told Local 6 News that they have tried to create an office that accommodates anybody's religion -- not just Islam.

"Clearly you're accommodating," Holfeld said.

"Yes." Kweli replied.

"And you have an ecumenical philosophy," Holfeld said.

" Yes," Kweli replied.

"(Then) shouldn't you be able to accommodate all faiths in the same lunch room?" Holfeld asked.

"We do, we can," Kweli said.

"But you've dismissed one of your employees for eating pork in the lunch room," Holfeld said.

"Yes, pork is considered unclean," Kweli said.

The Koran forbids Muslims from eating pork. And according to Kweli, Morales and every employee at the company is advised of the no pork policy.

"Our point of view is to respect the laws of the land and the laws of the land as I understand it is to the accommodate people's right to practice their religions if you can," Kweli said.

"Even if it impacts other people?" Holfeld asked.

"Well, it always impacts other people," Kweli replied.

Orlando attorney Mark Nejame is close to the Muslim community, Local 6 News reported. He said Kweli's intentions may cross constitutional parameters, according to the report.

"They're making it seem that if you don't follow a certain set of religious practices and beliefs then you're going to be terminated and that's wrong," Nejame said. "If this case prevails, what it will mean -- the implications of this case -- is it will eliminate accommodations of religion."

Both sides are steadfast in their belief that they are right. Morales is taking the company to court charging discrimination, Local 6 News reported.

 

[Slugman]

Do oyu have the link? I gotta send this to my Wife so she can put it in her show tonight...

 

[N8 v2.0]

Do oyu have the link? I gotta send this to my Wife so she can put it in her show tonight...

Link: http://www.local6.com/money/3614199/detail.html

 

[BostonBullit]

well, she knew about the policy and had a previous warning but still chose the BLT. Fortunately for her this is the US of A where you can't actually decide things like this in your own business because you might offend someone. she'll sue the chit out of the place and get a lot of money and the government will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and 6mos debating the new "freedom of lunch" bill there in DC.

I'm buying an island and starting my own country

 

[Ridemonkey]

well, she knew about the policy and had a previous warning but still chose the BLT. Fortunately for her this is the US of A where you can't actually decide things like this in your own business because you might offend someone. she'll sue the chit out of the place and get a lot of money and the government will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and 6mos debating the new "freedom of lunch" bill there in DC.

I'm buying an island and starting my own country

Agreed. Except for the own country part.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Orlando attorney Mark Nejame is close to the Muslim community, Local 6 News reported. He said Kweli's intentions may cross constitutional parameters, according to the report.

"They're making it seem that if you don't follow a certain set of religious practices and beliefs then you're going to be terminated and that's wrong," Nejame said. "If this case prevails, what it will mean -- the implications of this case -- is it will eliminate accommodations of religion."

Good lord....*shakes head*

WA state is a "hire/fire at will" state....they don't need a reason. How is it in Florida?

Woman should get nothing. She works for a muslim company and she was warned...

"Did you ever sign to or agree to anything that said I will not eat pork?" Holfeld asked Morales.

"Never," Morales said. "When I got hired there, they said we don't care what religion you are."

for the love of .....:angry:
Did you sign anything? WTF kind of question is that? Do you Ms Morales agree to not eat pork on the property.......stupid law suites like this is why there are stupid waivers and things to sign.

I am going to get a job with a christian church and then start killing chickens and praying to the devil on my lunch hour....but you can't fire me. It is my protected right to practice my religion.

The lady is stupid and her lawyer is a tool.

R

 

[Silver]

I say fvck the company.

Pork is legal in this country. It doesn't have detrimental effects on workplace performance. Why should she have to alter her diet because her employer happens to think pork is bad?

 

[bushwacker]

I know some companies have banned microwave popcorn.

 

[Silver]

I know some companies have banned microwave popcorn.

I'm cool with that. Nothing makes an entire office smell like pig feces quicker than microwave popcorn

 

[Slugman]

Although I HATE how lawsuit happy people are... I have to agree with pork girl.

Local 6 News obtained the termination letter that states she was fired for refusing to comply with company policy that pork and pork products are not permissible on company premises.

However, by the company's own admission to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, that policy is not written, Local 6 News reported.

They would need to have her sign something for it to be binding in the work place, however that policy would be illegal in the USA:

"It's a classic case of religious discrimination," Hollifield said. "They have not articulated a single reason other than religious reason behind the policy."

 

[LordOpie]

I thought no link = onion

Anywho, she has no case. She'd get fired from many other companies for eating a cat in the lunchroom, there's no difference to muslims. I don't see how this is religious intolerance.

They should counter sue her cuz I bet she did it to get fired and have a lawsuit.

 

[bushwacker]

Although I HATE how lawsuit happy people are... I have to agree with pork girl.


They would need to have her sign something for it to be binding in the work place, however that policy would be illegal in the USA:

I bet she doesn't get much more than an undiscolsed settlement which pays her lawyer.

Can you eat pork rinds while working in the Kosher factory making hotdogs/pickles/bread/etc?

I kind of doubt it, so it looks like the Muslim lawyer will have to chat to the Jewish lawyer to see how to defeat the evil white Americans.

 

[BostonBullit]

How about if this wasn't tied to religion at all? What if I go get a job at McDonalds and then after working there a couple weeks refuse to wear the uniform because it infringes on my freedom of expression?

if I'm running a business and I say "no one that works here can eat sushi on the premises because I find it disgusting and it makes me sick" and you bring sushi to the lunchroom I should be allowed to fire you...it's my damn business, if you HAVE to eat sushi go get a job somewheres else

 

[LordOpie]

...if you HAVE to eat sushi go get a job somewheres else

Or just eat it off the premises.

I think people who file frivilous lawsuits should be penalized.

 

[golgiaparatus]

I say fvck the company.

Pork is legal in this country. It doesn't have detrimental effects on workplace performance. Why should she have to alter her diet because her employer happens to think pork is bad?

Yeah, I hope she wins. Muslims cant eat pork, fine... she's not muslim.

 

[El Jefe]

How about if this wasn't tied to religion at all? What if I go get a job at McDonalds and then after working there a couple weeks refuse to wear the uniform because it infringes on my freedom of expression?

if I'm running a business and I say "no one that works here can eat sushi on the premises because I find it disgusting and it makes me sick" and you bring sushi to the lunchroom I should be allowed to fire you...it's my damn business, if you HAVE to eat sushi go get a job somewheres else

Big difference between a uniform dress code not tied at all to religion, and the eating of pork, directly tied to religion.

The world would be a much better place without any religion at all IMO.

 

[Silver]

Would anyone (LO, BostonBullit) be ok with a Muslim employer who required all women to wear burqas as a uniform then?

 

[Tenchiro]

Would anyone (LO, BostonBullit) be ok with a Muslim employer who required all women to wear burqas as a uniform then?

Yes. Because every single employee has a choice to work there or not. If you choose an employer that has certain rules, and then choose not to abide by said rules. The employer should be able to fire you. After all when accepting thier employment, you are also agreeing to follow their rules.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

First of all, yes Florida is a fire at will state.

How about if this wasn't tied to religion at all? What if I go get a job at McDonalds and then after working there a couple weeks refuse to wear the uniform because it infringes on my freedom of expression?

if I'm running a business and I say "no one that works here can eat sushi on the premises because I find it disgusting and it makes me sick" and you bring sushi to the lunchroom I should be allowed to fire you...it's my damn business, if you HAVE to eat sushi go get a job somewheres else

Not quite the same as either of the above examples. First off the policy wasn't written so that is a big no no. Secondly if you employ more than 10 people (dont quote that # since I am not positive) your company must meet a bunch of Federal equal opportunity regulations.

 

[Silver]

Yes. Because every single employee has a choice to work there or not. If you choose an employer that has certain rules, and then choose not to abide by said rules. The employer should be able to fire you. After all when accepting thier employment, you are also agreeing to follow their rules.

Sorry, bad analogy.

Let's say that it wasn't in your employee handbook..but that it was encouraged. And if you didn't show up wearing a burqa one day, you got warned, and then you got canned. That might be a bit better.

 

[LordOpie]

Would anyone (LO, BostonBullit) be ok with a Muslim employer who required all women to wear burqas as a uniform then?

You're trying to confuse and blur the issue. There's a difference between forcing someone to do something and forcing them to not do something.

With that said, if the company's primary clients were muslim and they wanted their female employees covered up when meeting with the clients, then I have no problem.

Would you be okay if you went to Hooters and was waited on by a woman who looked like Tenchiro?

 

[Slugman]

Anywho, she has no case. She'd get fired from many other companies for eating a cat in the lunchroom, there's no difference to muslims. I don't see how this is religious intolerance.

Has anyone ever approached you (not just LO, any of you) and demanded to know what the meat is that you are eating?

Can you eat pork rinds while working in the Kosher factory making hotdogs/pickles/bread/etc?

I kind of doubt it, so it looks like the Muslim lawyer will have to chat to the Jewish lawyer to see how to defeat the evil white Americans.

Yes you can. Kosher food is about the way it is prepared and treated (must keep thing separate from non-kosher items /cleanliness / there is some blessing in there as well), NOT about the contents of your GUT.

You can't eat anything while preparing any food anywhere in the US, it's a health code violation. But if you want to eat those items in the cafeteria, that does not affect the items that are being made in a different room... (just don't belch! )

Besides there are a lot of foods that you eat everyday that are Kosher. Look for a 'U' inside a circle (I think...). That means the food you are eating was prepared Kosher. It's on Ketchup and a lot of prepared foods. Does that mean that Heinz (keeping it political!) can forbid anyone from eating non-kosher foods?!?!

How about if this wasn't tied to religion at all?

It’s still an issue of infringing on someone else’s rights…

What if I go get a job at McDonalds and then after working there a couple weeks refuse to wear the uniform because it infringes on my freedom of expression?

Dress codes are very easily enforced… so that is a totally irrelevant item. Can you go to your job (assuming it’s at a professional site) in shorts and a T-shirt? How about walking in one day in a thong and a wife beater? Do you really think that your freedom to express yourself will be OK?

if I'm running a business and I say "no one that works here can eat sushi on the premises because I find it disgusting and it makes me sick" and you bring sushi to the lunchroom I should be allowed to fire you...it's my damn business, if you HAVE to eat sushi go get a job somewheres else

If you can’t stand sushi do not go to the café, eat in your office. Fact is that people have the right to do what they want… it’s America.

You would probably loose the lawsuit if you did fire them, but they would not be able to get as much $$$ b/c it would simply be a wrongful termination rather than a religious freedom issue.

 

[Silver]

You're trying to confuse and blur the issue. There's a difference between forcing someone to do something and forcing them to not do something.

With that said, if the company's primary clients were muslim and they wanted their female employees covered up when meeting with the clients, then I have no problem.

Would you be okay if you went to Hooters and was waited on by a woman who looked like Tenchiro?

I wouldn't go to Hooters...but that's besides the point. Plus, the Hooters women know up front what the uniform is. That's a little different.

I guess what is bugging me here is that it is a one way street. I can't start a company and fire people for being Muslim or Christian, that infringes on freedom of religion. So why can a religious person fire someone for disobeying thier religion? Doesn't that infringe on the religious beliefs of the person getting fired?

I'm getting dizzy from going around in a circle

 

[LordOpie]

I guess what is bugging me here is that it is a one way street. I can't start a company and fire people for being Muslim or Christian, that infringes on freedom of religion. So why can a religious person fire someone for disobeying thier religion? Doesn't that infringe on the religious beliefs of the person getting fired?

Think of it like an error in baseball... did the shortstop just miss the ball cuz he didn't put forth the effort or did it take a funny bounce just before getting to him.

You can't fire someone for a passive action (like being a witch), but you can for actively disobeying the rules (like sacraficing an animal in their office).

 

[Slugman]

but you can for actively disobeying the rules (like sacraficing an animal in their office).

Ok... now your just being N8, err I mean ridiculous.

 

[Tenchiro]

Would you be okay if you went to Hooters and was waited on by a woman who looked like Tenchiro?

You should be so lucky! :eviltongu

 

[RhinofromWA]

It’s still an issue of infringing on someone else’s rights…

what rights exactly? To eat a ham sandwich (For President!) at work? I don't think that is protected anywhere.

Dress codes are very easily enforced… so that is a totally irrelevant item. Can you go to your job (assuming it’s at a professional site) in shorts and a T-shirt? How about walking in one day in a thong and a wife beater? Do you really think that your freedom to express yourself will be OK?

So it is OK to tell people what to wear *crushing their right to free speach via their dress*, but not to tell them not to eat a particular product *crushing their right to practice a religion?* as the business is sensisitive it?

If you can’t stand sushi do not go to the café, eat in your office. Fact is that people have the right to do what they want… it’s America.

Except: the bajillions of things it is illegal to do.

 

[ridetoofast]

is the world about to end...because i actually agree with slugman and was certain that would never happen

i guess this is a stellar example of the much ballyhooed 'tolerance' of the islammic religion

 

[Changleen]

This reminds me of that thread about that singer bint and Michael Moore. Everyone basically said "Do politics in your own time - while you're at work you're getting paid to do whatever your boss says".

In this case I think I have to agree with that - It was a Muslim company (and despite that I think the not eating pork thing is stupid), they have rights too, not just the white middle class. As has been said - this is America. Everyone suposedly has the same rights (yeah right). They asked her not to eat Pork, it would have been easy as sh1t to just eat it outside.

You ask me fire the Bitch. She sounds like she was making trouble to me. Plus I agree with the frivolity of her lawsuit. In the UK, cases like this get thrown out for wasting court time. You guys should get into a bit of that.

I also agree with El Jefe though. No religion = VERY GOOD.

 

[Transcend]

well, she knew about the policy and had a previous warning but still chose the BLT. Fortunately for her this is the US of A where you can't actually decide things like this in your own business because you might offend someone. she'll sue the chit out of the place and get a lot of money and the government will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and 6mos debating the new "freedom of lunch" bill there in DC.

I'm buying an island and starting my own country

can I move there too? And will it mean i have to lay mulch around all the trees and stuff like you get forced to do? neaky:

 

[BostonBullit]

if the company uniform was a burlap sack with a giant "I'M A RETARD" sign on it, and you knew about it when you got the job then tuff noogies. now if something changed after you got the job, a little different, but I still say tuff noogies. the policy wasn't written down which could be an issue, but again, she was warned before so tuff noogies.

The overall point I'm getting at here is that we have gone too far off the deep end with the federal equality laws and waaaay too much chit has been officially "protected". If I run a business and all employees have to be naked all the time while their in the building who is the government to say I can't? why can't I make it a requirement that all women who work for me give me a hummer at least once a month? How does that infringe on thier rights? and doesn't the government not allowing that infringe on my rights? telling a dirty joke is "harrassment"? you can't even pay anyone a complement anymore without fear of being fired and sued into the stone age.....when will the madness stop? this is all the result of letting women vote

 

[Slugman]

why can't I make it a requirement that all women who work for me give me a hummer at least once a month?

And since you live in MA, maybe your male boss will adopt this policy about all the men at your work blowing him... ENJOY! Don't forget your mouthwash for monday morning "STAFF" meetings.

 

[BostonBullit]

And since you live in MA, maybe your male boss will adopt this policy about all the men at your work blowing him... ENJOY! Don't forget your mouthwash for monday morning "STAFF" meetings.

actually my boss is a chick, but I see your point....and raise you one "I'll just go find another job..."

 

[Slugman]

"I'll just go find another job..."

As I receptionist I am sure she could too... so I'll agree with you on that one.

However what if I don't want a different Job? What if I like the company and like what I do, but they have some rule I thinks is ridiculous and on a purely constitutional basis wrong? What if I am so specialized in my job that I'd have to move away to do continue working?

Of course all these are pure hypothetical situations that I think are silly. The fact is that in the original topic they told her that she could not eat pork b/c the muslim faith does not allow it. They never had her sign something to agree to it upon starting her job. Based on those 2 facts, I think she has a case and I think the company F'ed up and will be paying out a lot of money tosomeone who was earning probably $8/hr.

Rags to riches... the american dream.

BTW - shouldn't you be out riding...

 

[RhinofromWA]

However what if I don't want a different Job? What if I like the company and like what I do, but they have some rule I thinks is ridiculous and on a purely constitutional basis wrong? What if I am so specialized in my job that I'd have to move away to do continue working?

It is shaky grounds at best, that it is a constitutional issue. If a company is going to go to court against you, even if you win, you won't work there very long after you do go back.

You don't want a diff job? Tough titties, the job doesn't want you. and if you are that specialized and the only place you can work is a muslim fanatic company.....time to diversify. lol

Of course all these are pure hypothetical situations that I think are silly. The fact is that in the original topic they told her that she could not eat pork b/c the muslim faith does not allow it. They never had her sign something to agree to it upon starting her job. Based on those 2 facts, I think she has a case and I think the company F'ed up and will be paying out a lot of money tosomeone who was earning probably $8/hr.

Rags to riches... the american dream.

BTW - shouldn't you be out riding...

Don't need to sign anything....office rules can change and if you don't like it you can leave.....or in this case be fired.

What is everyone so stuck on her not signing a statement saying she would not eat pork? That is one of the dumbest things i have heard.

This is so far fetched it is insane but since a lawyer said "constitution" and "religious descrimination" everyone one is convinced it is so.

No where does it protect your right to eat pork in the constitution.

She wasn't fired for her religion

There are no what if's......find a job where eating pork is accepted. Silly lady.

 

[Slugman]

even if you win, you won't work there very long after you do go back.

The point is to win so that oyu don't have to go back to work, or you re properly compensated while you search for new work. It's actually not that uncommon. If you sign a Non-compete and can't find work in your feild becasue of this, your former employer has to compensate you... happened at my old place in MA, not to me unfortunately.

Don't need to sign anything....office rules can change and if you don't like it you can leave.....or in this case be fired.

What is everyone so stuck on her not signing a statement saying she would not eat pork?

Actually it is really hard to prove anything unless it is in writing... a handshake or verbal agreement will never hold up in court (unless it is recorded on video or audio). So since she never signed anything they can't prove that she ever agreed not to eat pork.

This is so far fetched it is insane but since a lawyer said "constitution" and "religious descrimination" everyone one is convinced it is so.

No where does it protect your right to eat pork in the constitution.

The whole reason she was fired was because she did something that went agains't islam. So that means she was fired for not following the rules of a religon. i.e. she was being forced to live (while at work) under someone else's religous rules and she was not allowed to live under her own religous guidence. Therefore, her religous freedoms were being supressed.

 

[BMXman]

I thought no link = onion

Anywho, she has no case. She'd get fired from many other companies for eating a cat in the lunchroom, there's no difference to muslims. I don't see how this is religious intolerance.

They should counter sue her cuz I bet she did it to get fired and have a lawsuit.

I think you're right...she knew the policy ahead of time so I don't see how she has any right to sue.....but the law system is pretty screwed, she will probably win and the media will turn it into a muslim bashing circus....D

 

[RhinofromWA]

Actually it is really hard to prove anything unless it is in writing... a handshake or verbal agreement will never hold up in court (unless it is recorded on video or audio). So since she never signed anything they can't prove that she ever agreed not to eat pork.

You don't have to agree to refrain from eating pork. You do ...and get fired or you don't and keep your job. She didn't fall in line with the rest of the office....so she can find a different place to work.

In a fire at will state you don't need a big reason....they can jsut drop your arse.

The whole reason she was fired was because she did something that went agains't islam. So that means she was fired for not following the rules of a religon. i.e. she was being forced to live (while at work) under someone else's religous rules and she was not allowed to live under her own religous guidence. Therefore, her religous freedoms were being supressed.

No she was fired for eating PORK. Not because she wasn't Islam....or didn't convert. She was warned about eating pork products and she did anyway.

Not eating pork on the premises is alot different than not following the rules of another religion.

If I was of a society that it was acceptable to eat cat and dog....we know there are some out there. I then go around finding strays and slaughter and cook them up....some cop is going to arrest me if I am caught. It is not acceptible in this country (as a whole) to eat cat or dog. If I knew that and I go to jail....what then? I am having my religious rights trampled on? No I am breaking the rules. Is it exactly the same as this issue? No, but close.

The whole prosecutions case rests on the fact that she was fired because she was not muslim. That is not the case. As far as I can see it 1 worker chose to eat something that was for all other purposes was forbidden in her work place. If she didn't eat this product there was no problems...she did anyway. Offending and angering the rest of the office. She is then let go, because that act created a hostile work environment for the other coworkers.

I say the coworkers should sue her for eveything she gets, plus a shinny penny, so she just drops the stupid case.

She was fired for eating pork...not because of her religion. Pork is not protected under the constitution as far as I know.

Again I hope she gets nothing.....or denied the case.

 

[Silver]

She was fired for eating pork...not because of her religion. Pork is not protected under the constitution as far as I know.

Again I hope she gets nothing.....or denied the case.

Pork isn't illegal either. For the record, I'd feel the same way if she got fired from a predominantly Jewish workplace for the same thing. Bottom line, it's a stupid thing to get fired for. It's not my employers business what I eat for lunch, as long as I'm not eating marijuana brownies...

 

[LordOpie]

so would it be okay to wear satanic symbols/icons/jewelry at a christian workplace?