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Would you pay $60 for a lightbulb?

dante

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
"Would I pay $50 for a lightbulb?" Sure, if the return on investment is worth it. I have no problem paying the money upfront to lover the overall costs that I pay. The biggest isue I see with it is that the energy savings aren't really that much different than CFL. Sure, it looks better, and it'll last a lifetime, but is it worth it when CFLs are ~$2-3? I'm not so sure on that part. We've already got mostof our lights switched over to CFLs, and so there wouldn't be much/any savings in our electric bill. Maybe if/when they come down in price we'll slowly switch bulbs over as they burn out.

What I'm really interested in is permanent light fixtures with these... I mean, who needs a screw-in bulb if the LED portion is going to last far longer than you'd ever want to keep the light? So manufacturers should just hardwire the LED into the fixture. It would cut costs, cut complexity and allow for better construction (instead of having to deal with a 4" oblong "bulb". Will be interesting to see.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
dante said:
What I'm really interested in is permanent light fixtures with these... I mean, who needs a screw-in bulb if the LED portion is going to last far longer than you'd ever want to keep the light? So manufacturers should just hardwire the LED into the fixture. It would cut costs, cut complexity and allow for better construction (instead of having to deal with a 4" oblong "bulb". Will be interesting to see.
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The claimed lifetime and actual will vary just as they have with CFLs though they will be better than CFLs.

Poor quality control or installations with limited circulation will result in shorter lifetime with electronics failure just as they have with CFLs. Existing infrastructure far outweighs new installations and A19 fixtures are cheap and common. When we rebuilt one of our buildings I caught the electrician trying to install some proprietary nonsense CFL fixture. He said they would be no problem but the real reason he bought them was because the local supply store had them. Those things have been unreliable POS and they take proprietary overpriced CFLs which only one company makes and they cost over twice as much as A19 CFLs you can get anywhere. **** proprietary bull****, it usually offers no advantage and it was just as crappy as I predicted in our case. LEDs are more suited for a form factor change but they still require special considerations for reflectors/TIR optics, electronics, and heatsinking.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
????? said:
Kind of like how Architects and Engineers don't make anything either.
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Nope. Samsung designed the displays that Apple sources and the A4/S5PC110 (and the heart of older products - see below) with no input from Apple (however after the A4/S5PC110 was designed, Apple bought the company that Samsung collaborated with, Intrinsity). The A5 was the first Apple chip they had any significant input on but that's because they bought the companies a la Microsoft, it wasn't not in-house design or engineering.

Samsung Exynos S5L8900 90 nm ARMv6 412 MHz Single-Core ARM11 PowerVR MBX Lite eDRAM 2007 Apple iPhone, Apple iPhone 3G, Apple iPod touch 1G, Apple iPod touch 2G

Samsung Exynos S5PC100 65 nm ARMv7 667/833 MHz Single-core ARM Cortex-A8 PowerVR SGX535 LPDDR2, DDR2 2009 Apple iPhone 3GS, Apple iPod touch 3G
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DirtyMike

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
syadasti said:
Actually the best screw-in LEDs bulbs match but do not yet exceed CFLs in lumens/watt and aren't found in higher sizes than 850 lumen/14watt/60watt incad equals unless you go with a larger flood style bulbs (LEDs need adequate heatsinking)

You can easily get CFL bulbs in 1600 lumen/23watt/100w or 2600/42watt/150watt equal). LED bulbs are more directional as they have reflectors or TIR optics - CFL produce a more diffuse light but the same total lumens. CFLs are not well suited for flashlights.

Your electric bill will be the same with either unless you prefer to dim your lights in which case LED would function well and use less power since CFLs don't dim well. Either uses far less than incads and thus produces less waste heat in your home.
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Yeah I am not up to date on home lighting as far as what bulb uses more or less, Just giving a comparison on what I know on a simple flashlight. Interesting that in a 120 AC system that the CFL and Diode would use the same power, yet in a 12v dc the Diode uses considerably less while producing more lumen's........ Make me curious as to why that is.
 
jdcamb

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,857
8,457
Nowhere Man!
DirtyMike said:
Yeah I am not up to date on home lighting as far as what bulb uses more or less, Just giving a comparison on what I know on a simple flashlight. Interesting that in a 120 AC system that the CFL and Diode would use the same power, yet in a 12v dc the Diode uses considerably less while producing more lumen's........ Make me curious as to why that is.
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Magic. Pretty sure it's magic.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
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HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,784
5,683
I just glossed over the posts but I don't think anyone mentioned Deal Extreme for cheap LED lights, you do have to read the specs or you may end a horrible coloured light.

In Australia most houses were given a box of CFL's for free however one of ours would normally blow every couple of weeks as the voltage was up to 20V over spec at times.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,428
7,811
I replaced nearly all of the non-CFL lightbulbs in my (rented) house with fresh new LEDs over the past week or two. I also had to replace a few antiquated 1960s era dimmer switches with standard on-off ones, as even with purportedly dimmer-friendly LEDs there was mad flickering action going on now and then. (For the EE types, I wonder if old dimmers did pulse width modulation instead of simply reducing the current…?)

Anyway, I'm pretty psyched to be able to replace numerous 40W and 60W bulbs with 8.6W and 13W LEDs that are subjectively as bright and brighter, respectively, and the price of the LEDs wasn't even that bad. $60 bulbs, hardly: Try under $8/bulb for the 8.6W EcoSmart omnidirectional ones, and $14/bulb for both the 13W EcoSmart omnis and the 13W Feit Electric floods.

The floods as pictured are my favorite, and I highly recommend them for any recessed-can type fixtures you all may have around your houses. (The "PowerLED" 4W bulbs in the bottom right of the below picture were awful, btw. Save your money and skip 'em.)



More on this mini-saga here: https://plus.google.com/115479414905422234350/posts/Ah6Tobhq4CC
 
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syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
You have to compare models in the same class - omni vs. omni or TIR floor vs TIR flood. The pancake shaped LSG (Ecosmart) omni are better than the Feit Electric or LSG model which looks like a half dome. I've only used the mini Feit TIRs so I'm not sure how they compare to the Ecosmarts but Ecosmarts use a more reliable/modern single LED design. In the CFLs Ecosmarts typically come out on top (CR and many others): http://www.consumersearch.com/light-bulbs/ecosmart-soft-white-14-watt

I think most people would like the can down light replacement fixture/bulb for its aesthetics, but they are more a PITA to install, cost more, and aren't quite as bright (still plenty bright and efficient). It will be harder for people to steal too. They look nicer than bulbs though:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202240932/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=ecosmart&storeId=10051

 
Austin Bike

Austin Bike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
1,558
0
Duh, Austin
I have put a bunch of led lights in my house and they have cut the electric bill, but I cannot get exact. I started with all of the lights that are on the most and have been slowly working through the house. Wife really hated cfl bulbs because they were slow to ramp, flicker too much and dir pretty quick. LEDs have been great as a replacement for halogen puck lights in the kitchen where heat is an issue.

But I have servers in my house that draw less power than a standard bulb. Incandescent bulbs are stupid at this point, highly inefficient.
 
dante

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
For can lighting, can there be insulation over these LED bulbs since they don't run anywhere near as hot? We have can lights in our kitchen that were installed by a not-so-handyman previous owner, and the fact that they vent up into an unheated portion of the house means we lose heat that way... We were thinking of just taking them out, but if we can switch over to LEDs and seal the openings better it might be worthwhile.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
All of the LED bulbs and can replacements are basically a tiny LED, a driver board, a big heatsink and some sort of standardized bulb interface. They weigh a lot more than CFLs and incandescents due to the heatsink design (still they consume similar power to CFLs so heat should be comparable). The can replacement seals the can in the sealing more than the regular can with bulb. You might be able to silicone seal around the perimeter and it could still vent some heat into the unheated portion of the home.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202240932/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=ecosmart&storeId=10051
 
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Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,428
7,811
dante said:
For can lighting, can there be insulation over these LED bulbs since they don't run anywhere near as hot? We have can lights in our kitchen that were installed by a not-so-handyman previous owner, and the fact that they vent up into an unheated portion of the house means we lose heat that way... We were thinking of just taking them out, but if we can switch over to LEDs and seal the openings better it might be worthwhile.
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I'm curious about this as well, as we have two can lights in the kitchen that protrude up into the attic. When I insulated the attic I made sure to leave an uninsulated "cave" several inches around the lights to avoid dying in a fire and all. Realistically, though, those two uninsulated spots probably won't make a whit of difference in the grand scheme: This leaky old house will remain a leaky old house until the day we move out of it.
 
C.P.

C.P.

Monkey
Jan 18, 2004
547
8
SouthEastern Massachusetts
Toshi said:
I'm curious about this as well, as we have two can lights in the kitchen that protrude up into the attic. When I insulated the attic I made sure to leave an uninsulated "cave" several inches around the lights to avoid dying in a fire and all. Realistically, though, those two uninsulated spots probably won't make a whit of difference in the grand scheme: This leaky old house will remain a leaky old house until the day we move out of it.
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On a few projects (electrical contractor) we used to have the GC build boxes out of fire-rated plywood up in the attic/loft whatever above these kinds of recessed light installations, where a homeowner wanted to do an insulation/infiltration project. In the end, it really depends on the kind of recessed housing (new work or renovation) as to whether it is just cheaper to replace the whole housing with a sealed, UL rated renovation style housing, then to build a box over each one. Whatever you do, don't seal up ones that are not rated to be sealed. Many newer housings have high-temp protection (they cut out) but many older ones do not ~ you dont know if someone would just put a replacement incandescent in there, and cause a fire...
 
jezso

jezso

Chimp
Dec 31, 2010
81
68
Dubai, UAE
Da Peach

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,684
4,915
North Van
Toshi said:
I replaced nearly all of the non-CFL lightbulbs in my (rented) house with fresh new LEDs over the past week or two. I also had to replace a few antiquated 1960s era dimmer switches with standard on-off ones, as even with purportedly dimmer-friendly LEDs there was mad flickering action going on now and then. (For the EE types, I wonder if old dimmers did pulse width modulation instead of simply reducing the current…?)

Anyway, I'm pretty psyched to be able to replace numerous 40W and 60W bulbs with 8.6W and 13W LEDs that are subjectively as bright and brighter, respectively, and the price of the LEDs wasn't even that bad. $60 bulbs, hardly: Try under $8/bulb for the 8.6W EcoSmart omnidirectional ones, and $14/bulb for both the 13W EcoSmart omnis and the 13W Feit Electric floods.

The floods as pictured are my favorite, and I highly recommend them for any recessed-can type fixtures you all may have around your houses. (The "PowerLED" 4W bulbs in the bottom right of the below picture were awful, btw. Save your money and skip 'em.)





More on this mini-saga here: https://plus.google.com/115479414905422234350/posts/Ah6Tobhq4CC
Click to expand...
Are you the neighbour?

http://www.27bslash6.com/halogen.html
 
jimmydean

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,298
13,418
Portland, OR
I have been doing a lot of research for my test/demo wall. The issue I have is my control system is MK7 (0v-10v dimming) and I am not finding many LED setups that support that interface. Granted, I have been working with lighting fixtures for about a week now.

My current setup uses four 4' florescen fixtures (2 bulbs per) with dimming ballasts. It works, but damn is it bright (I think my right side is getting tan). Plus it takes up 10' of display. I would like to use dimming LED's because I can theoretically control 32 fixtures with my relay bank.

So, anyone know of a good 0-10 LED fixture that would cost less than $50 a piece (as I need about 32 of them)?
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Wrong forum newb:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?91-LED

Even this one is much more likely to yield results:

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/

jimmydean said:
I have been doing a lot of research for my test/demo wall. The issue I have is my control system is MK7 (0v-10v dimming) and I am not finding many LED setups that support that interface. Granted, I have been working with lighting fixtures for about a week now.

My current setup uses four 4' florescen fixtures (2 bulbs per) with dimming ballasts. It works, but damn is it bright (I think my right side is getting tan). Plus it takes up 10' of display. I would like to use dimming LED's because I can theoretically control 32 fixtures with my relay bank.

So, anyone know of a good 0-10 LED fixture that would cost less than $50 a piece (as I need about 32 of them)?
Click to expand...
 
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