[stoney]

So I have been putting more time/money into my Impreza as I am starting to AutoX and track my wagon. With each successive drive, I am finding things that I can upgrade that lend to better handling. The problem is, I am now at the point where my next upgrade is the suspension, outright. New struts, adjustable shocks (Koni inserts), STI Pink springs, adjustible camber plates, sedan front control arms, sedan front sway, endlinks, lateral links, trailing links, strut tower bars (f/r), cowl brace, and some smaller assorted pieces. After the suspension it's big brakes, which means I need to get new wheels to clear the rotors and calipers. New wheels means two sets, as the second set will be track tires (type r compounds). I am looking at ~$5-7k and that is without even touching the engine which will undoubtedly be another $3k or so to max it out. And even then, once I have done that, I still have a normally aspirated that I *might* be able to get over 200whp without polishing the heads and running racing cams. And I'm not interested in cracking open the engine case until my warranty has run out.
Basically, I am looking at ~$10k worth of work to my car to get it not even close to where the STI comes stock. So here is my debate, do I just stop putting funds into my wagon with the exception of repairs and maintainance and just start saving for a down payment for a WRX or STI, or do I keep upgrading the wagon and then upgrade to an STI or WRX once I have maxed out the car's abilities (ie once it truley becomes the car holding me back).

If I go for the WRX, I am looking at about $23-25k for a new 06/07, or $17-19k for a used 06. By year end, I can have about $15-18k worth of deposit after selling my car and savings. That will leave me with a small loan (~$7k) and I should be able to pay it off entirely w/in a year. That being said, I know I will want to start the upgrade game again right away. I will be wanting to do most of the same suspension/braking upgrades as on my wagon, so I'm looking at $5-7k again. Which puts me back up into the $30k range (see STI) I do not need more engine than the WRX makes stock, and I'd much rather have an underpowered car that handles/stops incredibly.

If I got STI, I will not buy used. There are too many rider boi's who trash their STI's that I will not risk buying from one of them (see pink bike analogy). Due to this, I am looking at $32-35 for a new STI. Out of the box, there is little I would do to an STI other than sways, endlinks, and aluminum control arms. That's only about $1000 total. I need to spend a LOT more time behind the wheel on the track and doing autoX before I can get even close to the point that I can get even close to maxing out the STI.

The handling differences between my wagon full-mod, the wrx full-mod, and the STI minimal-mods, will be minimal. Braking, again, will be mimimal. The huge difference will be power. The wagon with serious investment *might* be able to hit 200whp, maybe. The WRX comes out of the box with ~ 200whp, while the STI is closer to 230whp.
As it stands, I am only able to pull people in hyper-curvey courses. If there are any straights, all my gains from cornering are lost due to a lack of power. The best analogy would be a locksmith opening a lock: the wagon is a proper lock pick - it takes more skill and time, and is easily overpowered by force. The WRX is a crowbar- it takes a bit of talent to open it fast and is beat by power, but it's faster than picking the lock. The STI is a sledge hammer - with talent, you can open it quickly (crowbar), with a lot of experience, you can become a master (pick), but when all else fails, you can win through brute power.
As it stands now, I can give a lot of people a good run for their money through straight driving skill. Should I continue my education (wagon) such that when I get a more powerful vehicle I am able to widen the gap quickly, or should I start with the proper tool and learn how to use it correctly? The money is an issue too. I currently own my car outright, so I don't have payments. Going with a WRX will leave me with payments for a year or so. The STI will leave me with payments for 2-3 years. My insurance rate will also go up with the WRX (2x), and exponentially with the STI (3x).

Any thoughts? Steve? Toshi?

 

[GravityFreakTJ]

if it doesnt strap you finacially i think you should try to go for a new STI. altho the insurance will be higher it sounds like the upgrades you would have to do to the other cars (if you don't get a STI)would offset that. if the STI is what you want Mark thats what you should get IMO.

 

[Jimmy_Pop]

you know, there are plenty of '04, '05, '06 STI's out there with low mileage who are the 3rd or 4th car in a doctor/lawyers driveway that dont trash or hot rod'd that are perfectly fine to buy used.

Get an STI.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

seems racing is your top priority.
are you set on subaru? evos make freaking awesome tarmac munchers too. specially the 9, which is undoubtly on another league performance wise.

there are algo other cars that can be made pretty competitive for much less.

 

[Toshi]

i have similar priorities to you, and you would do well to read my thread on NASIOC:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1149820

synopsis: for $17k i picked up a 29k mile 2004 RX-8. B Stock champ two years running, double wishbones (not found on STI), no turbo lag (ditto), ~3000 lbs (ditto), 50/50 weight distribution (ditto). while the STI is doing ok in A Stock, the RX-8 is clearly the BS and SCCA T3 car to have, and it's a fun drive to boot.

oh, and make sure to figure out what class your planned mods would put you in. i ran SM in my "stage 4+" WRX, and that's a tough class to keep up with...

 

[stoney]

I am sticking with AWD. No questions. I go to Tahoe enough that I have a set of winter wheels, so AWD stays. I don't like the evo, so that really leaves the Subaru and Audi. I would love an S4, but price is my limitation. That and it weighs more, by alot. And I would feel bad about flogging an Audi that wasn't rack prepped.
As for classifications, I don't care if I get bumped up, to a certain extent. AutoX is a learning site for me. I can push my car and myself to the limits, while in a controlled location. Right now I am spending a lot of time carting and trying to get track time so I can get a decent skill base before I really start racing heavily. That being said, doing the suspension and brake work I want to my wagon will push me into modified. Which would suck, as I would be so far off the back it's not even funny. At least the STI will allow me to be STX.

 

[BMXman]

I say stick with your current ride...do as many of the upgrades you can yourself and you will save a good chunk of change. It will still be a while before your car holds you back if you make the mods you refer to. Maybe buy a WRX or STI in 08-09....D

 

[Toshi]

the STI goes into STU, not STX. WRXs are in STX.

and ultimately it may well be cheaper to have one fun car (a la my RX-8), and a $2000 1993 Impreza L AWD... as for me, flexcar.com is my backup in case i need more space or awd on those rare occasions.

 

[bean]

Another part of insurance to consider. From what I've heard insurance companies generally don't cover mods to a car. So if you modded a WRX to match the STI, and then it was stolen, you wouldn't get much more than the value of a WRX without mods. So you'd lose whatever you put into it. If it was an STI you wouldn't have the mods so you'd basically get the entire value of the car.

 

[BMXman]

Another part of insurance to consider. From what I've heard insurance companies generally don't cover mods to a car. So if you modded a WRX to match the STI, and then it was stolen, you wouldn't get much more than the value of a WRX without mods. So you'd lose whatever you put into it. If it was an STI you wouldn't have the mods so you'd basically get the entire value of the car.

depends on the insurance company...I have logged all my mods and kept receipts. My insurance company has even come out ot look at the car.....it's FULLY insured in case something happens to it...D

 

[stoney]

I don't have that flexibilty. I have space and finances for one car. If I need something larger, I have access to friends SUV's. As it stands now, we (g/f and I) have the wagon and her Jetta. Getting apporval for the STI is difficult, as she does not like the Subaru's at all, especially the STI because of the wing and scoop.

 

[stoney]

depends on the insurance company...I have logged all my mods and kept receipts. My insurance company has even come out ot look at the car.....it's FULLY insured in case something happens to it...D

Agreed. Toshi did the same. If I go that route, all of my mods will be logged and reported to insurance. I have already thought about this.

 

[caputo1989]

check out http://iwsti.com/

 

[BMXman]

Getting apporval for the STI is difficult, as she does not like the Subaru's at all, especially the STI because of the wing and scoop.

I have to agree....those are the only 2 things I don't really like about the STI's....it just screams rice rocket show car to me...D

 

[bean]

Agreed. Toshi did the same. If I go that route, all of my mods will be logged and reported to insurance. I have already thought about this.

I suppose it depends on the insurance company. I know somebody on a Jeep forum who kept all his receipts and paid for more insurance for them. But then had to take the insurance company to court after it was stolen and they refused to make a reasonable offer.

 

[BMXman]

I suppose it depends on the insurance company. I know somebody on a Jeep forum who kept all his receipts and paid for more insurance for them. But then had to take the insurance company to court after it was stolen and they refused to make a reasonable offer.

well there are exceptions to every rule...D

 

[Sandwich]

Hold onto your wagon until you can find a sufficiently modified wrx to buy. There are plenty of people out there who wanted to do what you want to do, but got tired/poor/bored and now have to sell their ride off for half what they paid.

Yeah, you take a risk buying a used car, but you need to know what to look for. Plus, even if you buy new, the warranty may not cover breakages, so you're screwed if something happens whether it's used or new.

I would try to keep the wagon then get a miata or even a lo-cost.

Of course, if I had the money I'd buy an STI, no doubt. But I don't have money, so, coming soon again to a theatre near me,

 

[stoney]

up for the weekday crew

 

[mrbigisbudgood]

1. You're in for a hell of an insurance shock going from a wagon to an STi.

2. STi Limited for that "anti boy racer" look.

3. Sell me your go fast wagon parts.

 

[stoney]

As noted, I'm aware of the insurance difference - triple roughly.
As anti-ricer as I am, I still want the wing for the downforce. The difference is huge. That being said, I can always get a wingless trunk and install a adjustible wing for track days...
If you're lucky. I have local guys currently taking dibs on my susepension bits.

 

[psychobiker]

go audi, i've worked on my buddys...s-4 twin turbo with adjustable shocks...chips and turbos its now 450 horse...that tning is scary for a sedan

 

[stoney]

I've worked on Audi's too. They handle great, but without gutting them, they drive pretty heavy. I'm looking for something that drives great, is within my price range, AWD, AND will not need much work coming out of the box. Unless I get an S4, I'll need to drop quite a bit into an Audi to get it to handle how I want.
Not only that, I am used to how the Impreza feels. I will not be re-learning how to drive the car, I will be mastering. It's the same reason that you buy bikes from the same company year after year, you konw how they are going to handle.

 

[ElTORO]

No on Audi. My Bros are all BMW/Audi Tech's. They hate Audi with a passion!

I'm a Big fan of the WRX, a friend had one and he did every mod you could do to the thing. It was scary fast, would stop on a dime and turn on rails. It was a fun car.

 

[Sandwich]

1. You're in for a hell of an insurance shock going from a wagon to an STi.

2. STi Limited for that "anti boy racer" look.

3. Sell me your go fast wagon parts.

that car is so ugly. I still can't get over the fact that they dropped the 05 look, that was the best year, imo, with the bugeye pretty close behind it.

I still say keep your wagon and learn to drive it right without relying on horsepower...then upgrade to somebody else's car when they get out of the sport...but don't take my advice....just because everybody who's ever built a race car agrees with it... (not trying to be a prick, but it's widely accepted that buying a modified car is cheaper than buying a new car and modifying it)

 

[benno]

The S4 is a beautiful car but it isn't competitive with the WRX in stock or near stock form.

I would keep the wagon. It's going to cost you a lot of money in any of those situations and if you don't have a loan to keep paying then you have more money for car, bike or booze related expenses = fun.

Car loan + outrageous insurance = not cool

Edit: oh yeah, if it's power you want, can you buy a cheap front cut from Japan or an importer and drop a new donk in? It's pretty easily done here but our cars are RHD.

 

[stoney]

The thing that kills me is that I have a base level wagon. It fits my needs, but damn, having a powerful car is nice. That and I am finding out that it is not qualified for SCCA stock class, which is annoying. I need to figure this out though.

 

[Sandwich]

yeah the s4 is a pig, i can imagine it being fun on the street though.

You'd have fun in this
http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=58&cat=13

 

[stoney]

we're gonna need some industrial strength paper towels over here please.

 

[Demomonkey]

If you can swing your other half for a subie and can raise the cash for an STi, buy one, you will not regret it.

I brought my 01 version 7 STi wagon and have loved every mile Ive put on it. The STi's advantange IMO over the stock WRX is the gearbox (6 speed) how much of a sledgehammer the turbo is. 1st and second gears are like getting slammed by some WWF wrestling champ. The IC Waterspray is a actually more useful than the gimmick alot of people say it is. On its automatic setting, it definetly creates better boost pressure. The only hassle is havig to fill up the tank ever day or so.

And before you ask, yes its an 2001 V7, we get the newer models down here earlier than the US market.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159920

If you are buying 2nd hand, my suggestion is buy an umodified car if you can.

 

[stoney]

I still want an STI wagon, oh how happy I would be!
As for buying a modded car, no way in hell unless I'm buying a track prepped car and I have a garage. Because that thing will be on the stands a LOT!

 

[Demomonkey]

Ive seen some spy shots of the new Version 11 STi. Its an entirely new car and Subaru are going to re-introduce the wagon/hatch into the STi lineup. It will be pitched against higher brands like VW and Audi etc. It looks the farken business. My better half is already on notice that I want one (get in early, thats the trick). Happy hunting.

 

[Sandwich]

just saw a riced out sti on ebay . LCDs in the visors...sad.

if you can find a car that is tastefully modified, it might not be too bad. I understand the fear though, I was looking at eclipses and they're either stock or destroyed....but if you can find the few guys who put just a couple mods on it to make it a little better...might not be to bad.

save your pennies....although I do hear that stis aren't selling very well, a nearby dealer had 4 on their lot...then in one day sold three...so maybe you can get a deal.

 

[Ez-Cruiser]

STI
duh....

 

[stoney]

So, I've been thinking about this a lot. The one thing that I keep coming back to is that while I am taking more instructional classes and spending more time behind the wheel, I will still be driving a car with notable amounts of suspension slop. Which is not a good way to learn. I am probably going to keep upgrading the car, but in smaller steps. All the while, putting more into learning to drive properly and an amount away for savings for the new car (yet to be decided). It looks like I *might* be able to race the wagon in stock class on the track (WRX and STI can not), so I'll max out my available points towards the suspension, steering, and braking, leaving power for last. If I can swing it, I think I will run the wagon as long as I can in stock then reasses my options later. Worst case, I end up with a fun track car, that can take an STI engine and tranny. Throw in a front mount intercooler and I have the ultimate sleeper.

 

[julian_dh]

what about a lancer evo 9? $29,000us why, why not?

 

[Cave Dweller]

Im not a fan of cars myself, bikes are more my thing. But one thing i know from buying and upgrading bikes is to buy the stuff you want straight away, upgrading is a good way to waste alot of money.

You need to think about it, you don't want to buy a used STi because it will most probably be flogged out, so what makes you think that someone would want to buy your modified wagon? People don't spend $15k to drive to the shops, they do it to flog the piss out of it. You will end up selling the car for far, far less then what you put into it.

If you want STi spec, just buy it. It will hold its value better and you will save money in the long run.

 

[stoney]

That is why you keep your stock parts and convert back after you are done flogging it. That being said, I'm going to take the track car route and eventually turn the wagon into a track car.

 

[stoney]

Clutch just started slipping today. Only word I have for this is "sucks". I made 49k on my stock clutch, which isn't too bad, given that I essentially perfected my stick driving ability on it (ie beat the piss out of it for 10k+).
Now comes the fun part. Since I am now going to have the tranny/engine seperated to replace the clutch, do I go for the lightweight flywheel too? I can get a stock clutch and be done with it, putting the saved funds into my suspension, or...
Options:
a) Stock Clutch (including all necessary parts to install) - $280
b) Stock Clutch, Cobb fly wheel - $730
c) Stock Clutch, SS Braided STI Clutch hose - $365
d) Stock Clutch, SS Braided STI Clutch hose, Cobb flywheel - $825
e) Aftermarket Clutch** If I go this route, I'm going to include all in option D, less stock clutch**
Thing being, this car is not very poweful, so I don't think I really need the upgrade to the tranny. Eventually it will be getting an STI engine/tranny swap, but that's a LONG ways away.

 

[stoney]

Clutch wasn't hosed actually. I was the only person that was able to get it to slip, so I'm letting it got until it happens again.

I did however just get a bunch of new toys...
Koni Inserts, Whiteline Camber Bolts, Cowl Braces, STI transmission mount, and subframe locking bolts.
It just keeps getting stiffer and handling better.

My want list before I can install the camber bolts and Koni's is short but expensive. RaceCompEngineering lowering front camber plates, STI Goupe N Rear Strut tower mounts, and STI Pink Wagon Springs.

It's going to be a bit spendy to get the rest, so I'm looking at a little while to get the suspension all installed, but I can't wait to get it!

 

[stoney]

Just picked up an STI interior for uber cheap. Installed the front seats and steering wheel, which make a night and day difference feel wise. I'm selling the rest, as I don't care about the looks of the car, more the drive/feel. Should be able to get out with total cost on the seats and wheel around $200. Total steal!