[mantra]

i cant think of any mfg that takes all your moneys in advance when you "pre-order" a frame/bike.

Please name one other mfg with the same parts and the same price as YT with their Tues LTD.

That said, i dont believe this company is out to screw anybody, and it should probably work out fine. I just worry about the "what ifs"

I admit that a deal like this feels strange, but if somebody thinks that this company deliberately deceives somebody....I´ve to say....this person clearly has no clue about German law system!

Anyway...even if I stand to my words above....I won´t take my shot on this bike, because in the past, this company has had major delays (week 2 moths) in their delivery and nobody wants to be without a bike half of the season!

 

[norbar]

Mantra - Canyon is a bit more expensive but the parts are even better (or at least more expensive in yurp )

 

[IH8Rice]

Please name one other mfg with the same parts and the same price as YT with their Tues LTD.

x1000

I won´t take my shot on this bike, because in the past, this company has had major delays (week 2 moths) in their delivery and nobody wants to be without a bike half of the season!

thanks again for proving my point

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

are you trolling?


no one said the price on their setup isnt good. paying full price for a bike 6 months before its purportedly going to be available is stupid.

I'm not, are you? I would just like you to clarify why its such a flawed business model and the deal is such a ripoff. You know, facts not just some redneck rambling.

To me it seems an awesome deal. Hell where I'm from you spend 3-4 months waiting for your bike and they don't give you a 50% discount off the bat for the privilege.

If a guy knows he's going to be buying a bike then it is pretty hard to beat the return on investment of this deal. As long as the vendor is reputable offcourse.

 

[tabletop84]

should've elaborated on that 1 a bit more, While the idea doesnt seem so terrible, what i dont like is paying for something that doesnt exist-it can work out fine, and probably would, but if some part of the bike were to go up, they would have to either ask for more money, or put it up themselves, it seems to me that once you pay. that money goes into the bike, so it sets up a situation where your money goes into making the frame, and once they start welding, you arent getting your money back... I think its kind of a gamble, I dont see why they dont do it like the rest of the manufacturers, If the bike is readily available, people will buy it. I wouldnt put my money on something "hoping" it would all work out.

That said, i dont believe this company is out to screw anybody, and it should probably work out fine. I just worry about the "what ifs"

Last year Race-Face was in trouble and then there were no atlas-cranks for the ltd but they got it worked out somehow. I wonder what would happen if Mz goes down although yt stated that their orders are "on time". I wouldn't want a boxxer or 40...

 

[IH8Rice]

I'm not, are you? I would just like you to clarify why its such a flawed business model and the deal is such a ripoff. You know, facts not just some redneck rambling.

If a guy knows he's going to be buying a bike then it is pretty hard to beat the return on investment of this deal. As long as the vendor is reputable offcourse.

taking customer's full payment 6 months before a product is actually available (and months before they are probably even built) is HORRIBLE business practice/ethics/fundamentals and like mentioned before, is illegal in many places. you are basically relying on 531 people to help run your business. $1.5mil goes a long way.
name ONE single mfg that does this in ANY industry.

and where the hell did i say the deal is a ripoff? maybe you should take your head out of your ass and read before you post dribble.

i also didnt know rednecks come from the north.

return of investment on a downhill bike?? now ive heard everything

 

[norbar]

x1000



thanks again for proving my point

It's a cost vs benefit situation. If you are willing risking a delay (the cost) you get the bike cheaper. Some people don't sell their old bike before they get their new one. I do that because even if I sold it and didn't pay for a new one delays may happen anyway.


As for any mfg that does it? High end car companies do it actually a lot of high end very expensive crap. I know it's not the best business practice but if they make it work it's a win win situation. Not to mention Politics

Though in no way I'm saying that you don't have a point. It's just I think you are overreacting. It will work for some people, for some it wont.

 

[IH8Rice]

Ferrari and Lambo dont charge you full price for their cars even w/ their up to 2 year waiting list.

it might seem like im over reacting because people are putting words in my mouth and making zero sense in the process.

 

[norbar]

Ferrari and Lambo dont charge you full price for their cars even w/ their up to 2 year waiting list.

it might seem like im over reacting because people are putting words in my mouth and making zero sense in the process.

Naah. I just read your posts. I understand your point when I think it in terms of being a business owner.I probably wouldn't risk it if I was at their place but I'm not. I just think you make the moral/business model thing a bit too big. I actually think looking at the components that the cash they get from the preorder will not pay for much more than that when you take into consideration high german vat, expensive parts oem etc etc. They did the same last year but with 1 limited edition / hour. I think it's more of a marketing sheme than a we need funds to pay for production runs.

 

[demo 9]

Last year Race-Face was in trouble and then there were no atlas-cranks for the ltd but they got it worked out somehow. I wonder what would happen if Mz goes down although yt stated that their orders are "on time". I wouldn't want a boxxer or 40...

i have no idea what your trying to say, i cant even read this. I am going to guess you are saying that some of the companies u stated run into issues delivering product. Raceface, marz, fox, and SRAM all make the products they sell, they may sell "out", but they never sell in advance. There are some companies that have done this, two come to mind, Lahar, and Nemesis-both semi custom, both with payment in advance, and both went out and screwed the customer (on purpose or not)

What were to happen if i told you send me X amount of money, and ill build you a sick bike. Would you? So i get that this company is more qualified, and they made a proto (although any welder can do that...) But I would be suspect on the delivery. They should make the bikes, than sell them-if they are worried bout not selling enough, make a limited run. Canfield, brooklyn, and FTW are small companies, they dont take your money before the bikes are built...

 

[PJivan]

Ferrari and Lambo dont charge you full price for their cars even w/ their up to 2 year waiting list.

it might seem like im over reacting because people are putting words in my mouth and making zero sense in the process.

you may like it or not but YT is very clear on their policy and no one is forced to buy them...

they did the exact same thing last year and it worked, they are doing it again and it worked for almost 600 peoples.

saying "what about if the company...." dons't make any sense...
what about if you buy a frame and than the company fail and after 4 month your frame is broken?
price of the components cannot rise cose there was just one day to order the bike and they probably order thos components the same day!!

if marza fail they may go with fox 40.... still an awesome deal...if not better!

 

[PJivan]

i have no idea what your trying to say, i cant even read this.

I can even if english is not my language.

last year they (YT) had problem with race face delivery but they make it work somehow

 

[staike]

taking customer's full payment 6 months before a product is actually available (and months before they are probably even built) is HORRIBLE business practice/ethics/fundamentals and like mentioned before, is illegal in many places. you are basically relying on 531 people to help run your business. $1.5mil goes a long way.

LOL, calm down. It's not like anyone is forcing you to buy the damn bike, they do it out of free will.

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

By the way, Hollywood uses exactly the same business model.

As does Apple for instance. But it goes on mostly on B2B level. But this is incredibly compelling model.

Heres how it all works:
1. Sell the biggest price, lowest profit item upfront for 0% profit. Defer delivery 6 months.
2. Use the demand on the initial item to gauge overall demand.
3. Use the capital from #1 to purchase and sell the rest of the inventory.
4. In the following 6 months you can repeat the cycle 4-6 times each time gaining a 30-40% ROI.
5. Order and deliver the initial item to the customers at the breakeven price point.
6. Profit!

In the future we will see more of similar crowdfunding initiatives. Like I said this is becoming pretty standard practice in B2B world. And will become more and more widespread in the consumer sector.

There is one big caveat. This kind of operation is extremely risky. Thats why the reputation of the vendor is of utmost importance. And it is still risky. For vendor and consumer.

So far, YT has proven reputable enough AFAIK.

 

[tabletop84]

Mantra - Canyon is a bit more expensive but the parts are even better (or at least more expensive in yurp )

Well if you take aftermarket-pricing into consideration the deals are on par. But I like the yt-frame better. Low center of gravity, sleeker angles and variable wheelbase. You can change the Headangle on the canyon but the yt is angle-set-ready too.

From all I've hear the 2011/2012 888 evo is better than any 40 out there.

i have no idea what your trying to say, i cant even read this.

Sorry, I'm no native speaker but I replied to this "paying for something that doesnt exist-it can work out fine, and probably would, but if some part of the bike were to go up".

And I know about the Lahar-case but that comany was run by one guy. Yt is very well known in germany and europe and has gained great ppopularity.

Yt is a GmbH and in germany it's possible to have insight in their business-stats via the bundesanzeiger-website. This data indicates that there's nothing to worry about.

 

[was?]

to me, it still is an unsound business practice. even if yt had to pay an advance to the manufacturer of the frames in taiwan, methinks the customer shouldn't be the one to grant that credit, and therefore bear all risks.

 

[norbar]

Well if you take aftermarket-pricing into consideration the deals are on par. But I like the yt-frame better. Low center of gravity, sleeker angles and variable wheelbase. You can change the Headangle on the canyon but the yt is angle-set-ready too.

From all I've hear the 2011/2012 888 evo is better than any 40 out there.



Sorry, I'm no native speaker but I replied to this "paying for something that doesnt exist-it can work out fine, and probably would, but if some part of the bike were to go up".

And I know about the Lahar-case but that comany was run by one guy. Yt is very well known in germany and europe and has gained great ppopularity.

Yt is a GmbH and in germany it's possible to have insight in their business-stats via the bundesanzeiger-website. This data indicates that there's nothing to worry about.

Canyon didn't have durability problems. Some gear is a bit better on the canyon. As for the marz/fox it's all personal preference. I'd probably prefer a marz but you can sell a fox 40 kashima and easily get a 888 rc3 ti + some cash left for some fancy shmancy stuff.

 

[IH8Rice]

LOL, calm down. It's not like anyone is forcing you to buy the damn bike, they do it out of free will.

another who missed the point. completely

to me, it still is an unsound business practice. even if yt had to pay an advance to the manufacturer of the frames in taiwan, methinks the customer shouldn't be the one to grant that credit, and therefore bear all risks.

stop bringing sense into this conversation! its not like you have to buy one!!

 

[tabletop84]

Canyon didn't have durability problems.

Lol, Canyon had even bigger durability-issues then yt. Sessions broke, Lapierres broke, everything broke. It's just that when a yt broke everyone was like "Oh I saw that coming when it's that cheap it has to break". But it was just one series of the 2010-frame where the chainstais broke and yt is changing them for free even to second-hand buyers.

Some gear is a bit better on the canyon. As for the marz/fox it's all personal preference. I'd probably prefer a marz but you can sell a fox 40 kashima and easily get a 888 rc3 ti + some cash left for some fancy shmancy stuff.

For the price-difference you can also sell the evo ti and buy a 40. The only other better part is the deemax ultimate rest is the same or not as good or missing (stem, bar, brakes, cranks, no pedals) The division pedals on the ltd are the same built than the Detiy Decoy lt, weigh about 350g.

 

[sethimus]

taking customer's full payment 6 months before a product is actually available (and months before they are probably even built) is HORRIBLE business practice/ethics/fundamentals and like mentioned before, is illegal in many places. you are basically relying on 531 people to help run your business. $1.5mil goes a long way.
name ONE single mfg that does this in ANY industry.

and where the hell did i say the deal is a ripoff? maybe you should take your head out of your ass and read before you post dribble.

i also didnt know rednecks come from the north.

return of investment on a downhill bike?? now ive heard everything

ever heard of this funny site named "kickstarter"? paying in advance is part of the deal. get it. if you dont want to pay in advance they still offer the not so well-spected/priced version of their bikes...

 

[IH8Rice]

ever heard of this funny site named "kickstarter"? paying in advance is part of the deal. get it. if you dont want to pay in advance they still offer the not so well-spected/priced version of their bikes...

kickstarter is completely different then this...it is for startup companies who have zero funding. last i heard, YT isnt a new company looking for startup funding for this "project".
get it?

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

kickstarter is completely different then this...it is for startup companies who have zero funding. last i heard, YT isnt a new company looking for startup funding for this "project".
get it?

You sure? They were last year, how come they are not anymore?

I believe you are applying some kind of double standard here.

 

[IH8Rice]

You sure? They were last year, how come they are not anymore?

your dates are a few years off slick

 

[Inclag]

taking customer's full payment 6 months before a product is actually available (and months before they are probably even built) is HORRIBLE business practice/ethics/fundamentals and like mentioned before, is illegal in many places. you are basically relying on 531 people to help run your business. $1.5mil goes a long way.
name ONE single mfg that does this in ANY industry.

and where the hell did i say the deal is a ripoff? maybe you should take your head out of your ass and read before you post dribble.

i also didnt know rednecks come from the north.

return of investment on a downhill bike?? now ive heard everything

http://www.kickstarter.com/

 

[IH8Rice]

http://www.kickstarter.com/

hi. welcome to four posts ago.

 

[Raingauge]

So if I pre-order the bike and pay up front I get a sweet deal on it but I have to wait for delivery or I can wait until they are in stock and pay more.

Seems like its up to the consumer to decide whether its worth the risk or not. No one is forcing them to pre-order and the terms are clear about when you have to pay. As long as the company is reputable and delivers the product it seems like a pretty good deal whether it fits the standard business model or not.

 

[norbar]

Lol, Canyon had even bigger durability-issues then yt. Sessions broke, Lapierres broke, everything broke. It's just that when a yt broke everyone was like "Oh I saw that coming when it's that cheap it has to break". But it was just one series of the 2010-frame where the chainstais broke and yt is changing them for free even to second-hand buyers.

I remember about YTs being broken because people waited a while for theirs to be warrantied. Though if canyons had problems than both bikes suck for me. One thing I hate is being constatly worried about my bike durability. Went through it once and it just isn't worth it.

 

[RedOne]

Don't know what's wrong about giving a reputable company some kind of a private credit, when in return you get a much better than standard spec'd bike for your money.
As some already said, if you don't like that deal, don't do it.

Ok, I'm biased as they are some kind of locals to me.

 

[Trekrules]

 

[tabletop84]

Tues 2.0 in Action:



This one is for laughs! on Vimeo

 

[Trekrules]

 

[tabletop84]

The colours on the standart-version are way better then the ltd.

 

[ArthurGreen]

Carbon version for 2013. Looks sick!!

 

[frango]

No way! It's like F117 cool

 

[dropmachine]

Now thats a nice lookin bike. Any feedback on how the current one rides?

This sport needs more wallet-friendly stuff like Tues. High end fluff can suck my balls.

 

[Gary]

a riding buddy got one a few weeks ago and wrote a review of it I'll cut n paste it for you.

It soaks up bumps and stuff.
It corners very nicely.
I even pedalled going downhill at one point.

 

[tabletop84]

Now thats a nice lookin bike. Any feedback on how the current one rides?

This sport needs more wallet-friendly stuff like Tues. High end fluff can suck my balls.

It rides great. Will be in Pds in one week for some serious testing.

 

[tabletop84]

http://www.yt-industries.com/fileadmin/downloads/testberichte/Test_TuEs2_Dirt_09_2012.pdf

 

[Dogboy]

http://www.yt-industries.com/fileadmin/downloads/testberichte/Test_TuEs2_Dirt_09_2012.pdf

I was just reading that review this morning. Sounds like an awesome bike.

 

[tabletop84]

told you so