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An even bigger tantrum?

hmcleay

i-track suspension
Apr 28, 2008
117
116
Adelaide, Australia
Hugh, from the images at bikerumor it seems to me that the sliding mechanism sits right between the lower attachment point on the front triangle and the pivot of the shock yoke on the swingarm. So that angle is relatively clear at top out. When the rear is compressed it changes its angle relative to the front triangle. How can that be modeled correctly?
The model would be pretty similar to a Banshee type layout. e.g. 4-bar linkage, with the shock connected between the front triangle and rear triangle. The 'very long link' that I described is one of the two intermediate links of this 4-bar model. The other intermediate link is exactly as on the actual bike.
Where this VLL pivots on the front triangle in the model should be the same position as where the slider pivots on the front triangle (on the real bike).
Where the VLL pivots on the rear triangle (in the model) can either be up high and far forward, or down low and far back (it doesn't matter which you choose), as long as the line of this VLL is perpendicular to the slider of the real bike.
So, to answer your question, because this swingarm pivot is part of the swingarm (even though it is a long way away from where the swingarm would normally be), it still moves with the swingarm as the suspension compresses, so line of the VLL will remain perpendicular to the actual slider.
 

Sandro

Terrified of Cucumbers
Nov 12, 2006
3,224
2,537
The old world
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/marin-wolf-ridge-first-ride.html

http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/Marin/Wolf-Ridge-Pro,18522#product-reviews/2722

We have never had a good kinematic for bikes before, and that's the bottom line... We've missed a critical element. Inertia of mass of human.
Yup, DW never ever made that one of the key considerations for his system and stated that explicitly for years. It would be nice to be able to calmly debate the merits of different systems, but bullshit statements like this disqualify you from that discussion instantly. It would also be nice if MTB "journalists" weren't so gullible and would at least call out manufacturers on such blatant b.s.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,017
1,719
Northern California
Marin is a funny company. I worked there years ago; there was 1 product manager for the entire company, and he barely rode. He had to spec 53 different bikes - from geometry to parts, and he didn't have experience riding a lot of the disciplines he was spec-ing bikes for. For example, they wanted to make a freeride hardtail, so they took a 71 degree head-angle xc frame, beefed up the tubing, added a gusset and put on a Dirt Jumper 3 and thought they could call it good. I was able to talk them into slacking the head angle from 71 degrees to 69 degrees but I couldn't get them off of the Dirt Jumper. They came out with the Quad Link while I was there (I was the rider they used in the product shots for the catalog and ad campaigns), and the first time I rode it I wanted to throw the thing off the trail...so fucking sketchy. You couldn't adjust the front derailleur without letting all the air out of the shock so you could get at the screws. We had a batch of high end road bikes that showed up from Taiwan with threaded headsets...WTF? That said the owner Bob Buckley treated his employees really well - catered lunch, in-house yoga, trips to Thailand, and a program to help employees buy houses in the Bay Area....pretty awesome dude. I also had a lot of good times on the Marin Team DH - 7-10" of travel with a triple clamp but it had a steep seat tube angle and could run a triple when you needed to earn your descents.
 

mrgto

Monkey
Aug 4, 2009
295
118
Threaded head tubes! The look of confusion on everybody's face must have been great!


Wait.... New standard????
 

troy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
1,008
742
Marin is a funny company. I worked there years ago; there was 1 product manager for the entire company, and he barely rode. He had to spec 53 different bikes - from geometry to parts, and he didn't have experience riding a lot of the disciplines he was spec-ing bikes for. For example, they wanted to make a freeride hardtail, so they took a 71 degree head-angle xc frame, beefed up the tubing, added a gusset and put on a Dirt Jumper 3 and thought they could call it good. I was able to talk them into slacking the head angle from 71 degrees to 69 degrees but I couldn't get them off of the Dirt Jumper. They came out with the Quad Link while I was there (I was the rider they used in the product shots for the catalog and ad campaigns), and the first time I rode it I wanted to throw the thing off the trail...so fucking sketchy. You couldn't adjust the front derailleur without letting all the air out of the shock so you could get at the screws. We had a batch of high end road bikes that showed up from Taiwan with threaded headsets...WTF? That said the owner Bob Buckley treated his employees really well - catered lunch, in-house yoga, trips to Thailand, and a program to help employees buy houses in the Bay Area....pretty awesome dude. I also had a lot of good times on the Marin Team DH - 7-10" of travel with a triple clamp but it had a steep seat tube angle and could run a triple when you needed to earn your descents.

Good old money laundering companies
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,610
5,925
in a single wide, cooking meth...
Haha.....

I thought that polygon was one of the ugliest bikes I've ever seen.

But good ole marin.

Marin bikes will NEVER be outdone on ugly. They definitely have their niche: goofiest looking bikes on the planet in any and every generation.

Truth...


And yes, I can only assume whoever took this picture did so just before he tried to kill it with (grill) fire.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,610
5,925
in a single wide, cooking meth...
There's an old dude who rides one on Highland.
I can't laugh too much since I'm fast approaching "old man curiosity" status myself with my 2010 TR450...

Look at those tiny wheels!!! Wait, wut?! It doesn't even have 162.7mm rear hub spacing!! Elle-Oh-Elle! And a wheelbase under 55"!!! How in the hell does that AARP'er even ride that thing?



Maybe I will set up a tent in the parking lot and charge people to see a "a weird contraption from yesteryear" like the giant rat exhibit at the State Fair.
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,696
13,050
Cackalacka du Nord
Truth...


And yes, I can only assume whoever took this picture did so just before he tried to kill it with (grill) fire.
GRILL IT WITH FIRE

I can't laugh too much since I'm fast approaching "old man curiosity" status myself with my 2010 TR450...

Look at those tiny wheels!!! Wait, wut?! It doesn't even have 162.7mm rear hub spacing!! Elle-Oh-Elle! And a wheelbase under 55"!!! How in the hell does that AARP'er even ride that thing?



Maybe I will set up a tent in the parking lot and charge people to see a "a weird contraption from yesteryear" like the giant rat exhibit at the State Fair.
Can I get in on this action with my 2009 uzzi?
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,480
422
Marin actually seemed to be turning things around with some really great budget full suspension models - this may have been a step too far.

I still don't get why the shock can't go where the tube is and why the swing arm has to be quite so clunky.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
Haha.....

I thought that polygon was one of the ugliest bikes I've ever seen.

But good ole marin.

Marin bikes will NEVER be outdone on ugly. They definitely have their niche: goofiest looking bikes on the planet in any and every generation.
I actually think the Marin looks a tiny bit better. I think because the top tube doesn't have 12 separate kinks in it.

This is like debating looks between Trump and Bannon though, so...
 

lobsterCT

Monkey
Jun 23, 2015
278
414
I saw in the Marin write up and the polygon write up that they both talk about shocks needing some percentage less damping.

Has this been discussed? Does the system have extra friction from the tube slider thingy slowing it down that makes it feel like it needs less damping?

In the slow mo of the Marin video, it didn't look like the rear wheel was tracking the rough terrain particullarly well on the downhill sections.