[Udi]

I want:
- 35mm clamp (obviously)
- 50mm length
- 7075 alloy construction
- Large clamping width for 800 bars
- 130g with all steel hardware or close (just for comparison - I'll BYO the Ti)

Hopefully all in a package that won't break in <5yrs.
I'm not flexible on any of those requirements, so I've ruled out virtually everything except for the Transition/ANVL Arc DM stem (edit: not getting the ANVL since they refuse to respond to emails, poor service) and maybe the Easton Havoc 35 DM.

Anyway, just wanted to check if I missed any options since there are a lot of small and potentially worthy brands making stems.

I've ruled out plenty of the other common options because they don't fit one or more of my requirements list - doesn't necessarily mean they are bad products.

 

[HAB]

Renthal carbon bars actually suck.

Care to elaborate?

Race Face Atlas seems to fit the bill if you can get over the fact that it's 2014 instead of 7050.

 

[Udi]

Argh I actually just edited that out so I don't have to deal with a sea of fanboys.

Since it's out there now though - seen a fair few Renthal carbon bars broken, and a lot of their stems cracked and twisted as well - the latter in my book is unacceptable and just shows poor engineering form. Their alloy bars are also heavier than the competition with no appreciable benefit so I think the MTB wing of their company is riding purely on their brand name rather than any functional benefit. With that said, their alloy bars work fine, it's just the rest that actually sucks. In the same breath I've seen a higher percentage of Easton Haven and Havoc carbon bars cracked than other brands too (along with cracked and/or twisted Easton Haven stems), and while it's impossible to analyse the circumstances of each failure, I've seen enough cases of each failure mentioned in this paragraph that I would never personally buy any of those products.

But yeah - ruled out the Atlas stem (which I liked otherwise) based on 2014. Nothing wrong with that alloy at all, I'm just very particular about what I want here - mostly stemming ( ) from experience over the last decade.

FWIW I've had good experiences with the SIXC 785mm carbon bar on my trailbike and picked it after deciding they had the lowest failure rate vs. number of products in service. I'm probably going to give the SIXC 35/800mm bar a go based on that, unless a pile of snapped ones suddenly show up.

 

[jstuhlman]

answer says sorry for being 20g too heavy: https://www.answerproducts.com/components/stems/dh-stem/

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Funn?
Should clamp wide.
And it looks almost like the point one stem.

• Material: AL6061-T6 full CNC well not really 7075...
• Rise: 15 Degrees/35 Degrees
• Bar Clamp Diameter: 35mm
• Extension (mm): 45/50
• Color: Anodized red/orange/blue /silver/black
• Clamp Bolt: Steel
• Weight: 130g (steel)/140g (steel)

 

[Udi]

Not negotiable on any of the points unfortunately (particularly that one), but for anyone interested, the 2014 alloy (used by RF and Hope) is much closer in strength to the 7075 I desire than 6061, the latter is far behind and probably isn't the best material for a 130g DH stem.

There's a really old but interesting post from DW on the topic here:
http://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/direct-mount-stems-whats-up.225631/

Anyway keep them coming. There's usually some small Euro brands doing cool stuff in this realm, had a quick look at Syntace / Reverse / Numbernine and nothing fits. Will grab the ANVL if nothing better shows up.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Not negotiable on any of the points unfortunately (particularly that one), but for anyone interested, the 2014 alloy (used by RF and Hope) is much closer in strength to the 7075 I desire than 6061, the latter is far behind and probably isn't the best material for a 130g DH stem.

I have worked with 7075 on several occasions while constructing high accelerating parts for plants, I never even looked at 6061, because I needed high strength to weight ratio in that area and money was no object.
It's good to know that 6061 T6 has about half the strength of 7075 T6.

Now I also understand why you won't bother with 6061 for a stem that light. I am starting to seriously question some of the options on the market right now.

 

[troy]

This.

https://www.bike24.com/p249154.html

 

[Udi]

This.

https://www.bike24.com/p249154.html

Meets all the criteria! Added to the shortlist, thanks.

Although the website description is confusing on the material - do you think it's just a typo?
http://www.syncros.com/syncros/us/en/products/2347680001222/Syncros-DH1-5,-35-0mm-Stem

Now I also understand why you won't bother with 6061 for a stem that light. I am starting to seriously question some of the options on the market right now.

Yeah, I mean it also depends on the design / intended use and a whole bunch of other factors, but it's nice to be aware of the differences at least. I've got a forged 6061-T6 stem on my trailbike and haven't had any issues, but my DH bike sees a lot more usage, and more importantly I tend to keep parts on it for a very long time - so I want products I'll still feel safe using after 5 years of riding.

I'm a big fan of the Point1 stem you mentioned, a brilliant product and unfortunate that the company dissolved.

 

[Flo33]

Anyway keep them coming. There's usually some small Euro brands doing cool stuff in this realm, had a quick look at Syntace / Reverse / Numbernine and nothing fits. Will grab the ANVL if nothing better shows up.

Did you ask Syntace if they are planning on a 35 mm release? Worth a try, always a quick responding comp and awesome products.

 

[Udi]

Did you ask Syntace if they are planning on a 35 mm release? Worth a try, always a quick responding comp and awesome products.

I'd certainly consider their product if they did release one - but things I don't like about the current Syntace DM stem:

- 44/55mm length? Just make it 50
- Unknown material? Likely 7000 series but disclosure is better
- Clamping width could be greater, I think this is important for wider bars (especially carbon) since it reduces the lever arm length, and most modern bars have wide clamping zones to cater

I appreciate their strength/weight optimisation but for the prices they charge it'd want to be much closer to perfect.

 

[Gary]

Why 35mm?

Genuinely interested in what it offers you over 31.8?

 

[troy]

Although the website description is confusing on the material - do you think it's just a typo?

Might be a typo. Just ask them. You may try to ask @buckoW , as Syncros is owned by Scott.

 

[Udi]

Why 35mm?
Genuinely interested in what it offers you over 31.8?

Good question - with an answer that'll make you happy.
Nothing in my book. Just another standard I'm being forced into really.

They allow wider bars at lighter weight (eg. an 800 wide bar can be lighter for equal strength in 35 compared to 31.8 clamp) with the sacrifice being reduced wall thickness. I don't really agree with or approve of the latter, and would rather carry the small amount of extra weight and stick with 31.8, but the bar I want is a 35 so here we are.

With that said, a) 31.8 has plenty of valid benefits over 25.4 for anyone with >710mm bars - since it's very difficult to get a 780-800 wide bar at adequate strength + reasonable weight with a 25.4 clamp, and b) the jump from 31.8 - 35 isn't as big, so while I don't really like the wall thickness reduction, it's not a huge change from what everyone except Gary was running for the last 8 years anyway.

 

[Flo33]

I'd certainly consider their product if they did release one - but things I don't like about the current Syntace DM stem:

- 44/55mm length? Just make it 50
- Unknown material? Likely 7000 series but disclosure is better
- Clamping width could be greater, I think this is important for wider bars (especially carbon) since it reduces the lever arm length, and most modern bars have wide clamping zones to cater

I appreciate their strength/weight optimisation but for the prices they charge it'd want to be much closer to perfect.

Just shot them an email and received an answer 7 min later from R&D guy. No 35 mm option in near future and yes, 7075 alloy.

 

[troy]

Given that both 31.8 and 35mm bars would weight the same and would be designed in the same way, the bigger one, in theory, would be roughly 20% stiffer (~70% difference between 25.4/31.8 bars). So if You go lighter - then the stiffness wise, it should be the same as 31.8 bar, yet more expensive with limited bar/stem combo options. If the bars would weight the same, than the question is - do You really want to sacrifice some compliance for a stiffer handlebar?

 

[kickstand]

I'm on my third season of anvl bar/stem combo at 800mm and not so much as a creak out of them, I have zero complaints. I like the wide clamping area on the stem, makes me feel like it should slip less and cut into bars less, but I have no science behind it.

Wife is running the Easton combo that came stock on her v10, I like my set up a touch better, but mostly because I had to use a small stem spacer to get her bars out of the compression adjustment of her fork in the 45mm setting. There's also something I just don't like about the Easton combo, but in fairness I haven't ridden it other than in the parking lot.

I'd buy anvl parts again they seem to be of good quality.

 

[lobsterCT]

 

[Mo(n)arch]

What about the needed rise of the stem?
The ANVL stuff seems to be nice, although I am not a fan of the bar clamping on the direct mount stem...

Edit: Just checked it out on their homepage. To be honest it looks awesome.

 

[kickstand]

What about the needed rise of the stem?
The ANVL stuff seems to be nice, although I am not a fan of the bar clamping on the direct mount stem...

Edit: Just checked it out on their homepage. To be honest it looks awesome.

what no likey about the bar clamping? I've had no slippage issues, and I kind of like how the bolts are out of site, gives a clean appearance.

 

[TrumbullHucker]

Not sure about what series aluminum they are made out of, but I have 35mm diameter Havoc bars ( 780mm ) with Havoc DM 35mm stem.. but it made my front end way low

for the cheap I found Nukeproof 35mm DM, rose my bars up perfectly
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/nukeproof-warhead-direct-mount-stem/rp-prod85537
meets your requirements except for weight

 

[Sandwich]

I thought this was going to be about 35mm reach instead of 35mm diameter, so i'm useless as usual.

That being said, have you considered the twenty6 stem? It's 6061 and 31.8mm, but it comes in pretty colors.

 

[Sandwich]

oh, it also has a very narrow clamping width, so that helps.

 

[shirk007]

Joystick?

http://ridejoystick.com/joystick-products/8-bit-integrated-stem/

But what is 8-bit alloy? 6000 series or a 7000 series?

 

[mykel]

@Udi - what has you locked into a 35mm bar?

This year I put a carbon 31.8 - 780mm Syntace bar on the big bike, and am very happy with it.
I considered the Sixc (Canukian afterall...) but I liked the reports of the vibration damping on the syntace, (nerve damage in my hand makes vibration killing a priority ) and the 10 year warranty was a bit of icing on teh cake.

 

[Gary]

>710mm bars

25.4 & extended to 740mm (I habitually run my outer lock-on collars *2mm over each side)

I do actually have one bike with 31.8 stem/bars.
My Rose Jester. (Short travel Slope/DJ/nonDuro piss about bike). I've been running 760mm Renthal bars on that since day one and have hated them every ride. They're simply too wide and my hands creep inwards the more tired I get. Rather than cut them down I thought I'd persevere. Despite my seemingly stuck in the past choices I'm not actually one to dismiss new stuff without good reason... The Renthals will be losing 10mm each end next time I need to do any work on it.

I had a look recently to see what decent 25.4 bars are still available and other than pretty weighty DJ bars there's kinda nothing anymore :'( so it looks like my next bar purchase will have to include a stem.. Hence my question.

I too would definitely have a Point1 stem again if they were still around. Unhelpful I know... but you already knew any reply from me here would be, eh?

* a hang up from all the years running 20c coins for end plugs

 

[Udi]

What about the needed rise of the stem?
The ANVL stuff seems to be nice, although I am not a fan of the bar clamping on the direct mount stem...

Edit: Just checked it out on their homepage. To be honest it looks awesome.

Yeah I think it's still my favourite pick so far. Always nice to see what's out there though.
I'm not too fussed on rise, ideally around 0 which is what I currently run, no real desire to have the base of the bar below the top of the crown. I run 38mm rise bars at the moment, next ones will be 35mm rise (closest I can get to my old ones).

I'm on my third season of anvl bar/stem combo at 800mm and not so much as a creak out of them, I have zero complaints. I like the wide clamping area on the stem, makes me feel like it should slip less and cut into bars less, but I have no science behind it.

Great, thanks for the update. Any pics of the combo? Do the front bolts take a 4mm or 5mm key?

@Udi - what has you locked into a 35mm bar?

See post #14 - the bar I want only comes in 35mm. I don't love the idea of carbon bars for DH but feel like the SIXC is the best of the bunch (partially from observing a very low failure rate vs. number in service), and I've run the SIXC 785mm on my trailbike for a while now with no problems. I run 800 bars on the DH bike and you can't get 800 in 31.8mm clamp on the SIXC, only 35mm.

If the bars would weight the same, than the question is - do You really want to sacrifice some compliance for a stiffer handlebar?

I didn't bother mentioning the stiffness change because I don't have a choice in the matter to be honest (as above, the bar I want in the width I want only comes in 35mm clamp) but for interest's sake the claimed weight is ~10g lighter than their most similar 31.8mm clamp bar. Unfortunately I find the claimed vs. actual weights on carbon can vary by more than that (+/-15g, not cool, but reality) so I think it's impossible to know.

If I had a choice I suspect I'd prefer the compliance (there's definitely noticeable give in a 7075 alloy 800 x 31.8mm clamp bar), but I haven't compared a 35 fairly enough to make judgement, and honestly having carbon on one bike and alloy on the other, I can't feel any noticeable difference in vibration damping either (different forks/travel so hard to compare also). Do you have a preference?

 

[HAB]

I've seen issues with Renthal stems, no argument there. I've got a couple of their carbon bars, mostly because the bend suits me well and they've been fine, hopefully they keep holding up.

I do agree with your last point that I can't tell a bit of difference between a carbon and aluminum bar though.

 

[troy]

Do you have a preference?

Not really. I love my Kore Torsion OCD 7050-T6 800x31.8 bar tho.. very comfy, super strong, lightweight (there was a thread about kore bars started by @gemini2k IIRC).

I may have a little bit different approach to buying bike parts. I'm not using standards that are not commonly available at bikepark shops. I don't want a situation where I travel 700-1000 km, bend my handlebar 1st day riding and have my 10 day trip ruined, because a local bikeshop has no 35mm bars in stock (or spend billion $ for their overpriced stuff). It may be less of a problem elsewhere.

 

[Sandwich]

ahhh the kore torsion, _THE_ handlebar of RM.

 

[kidwoo]

Why you no like renthal?

Hella compliance yo!

 

[4130biker]

Why you no like renthal?

Hella compliance yo!

Does all that compliance help negate the graphs and lines associated with this?:

 

[kidwoo]

Does all that compliance help negate the graphs and lines associated with this?:


View attachment 123062

Ain't nothing wrong with the graphs and lines or actual riding relating to that bike. I wish SC made all their lines and graphs like that.

 

[TrumbullHucker]

unrideable squared

 

[toodles]

What's the Chromag BZA DM stem made out of? Can't find it listed anywhere, possibly too heavy at 160g but it's nice and wide.

The Joystick DM stem meets the weight criteria, but hard to find out what their proprietry "8-bit" alloy actually is.

Personally, I'd only go for a stem that has the fully removeable face plate, like the Chromag or Syncros. Sliding stems on and off bars is a pain in the arse and usually scratches something.

 

[kidwoo]

What's the Chromag BZA DM stem made out of? Can't find it listed anywhere,

Death metal

http://bti-usa.com/public/category/ST/STDM/HR#

 

[toodles]

Death metal

http://bti-usa.com/public/category/ST/STDM/HR#

Ermagherd! Given the comparative strength differences, either 6061 is heaps cheaper or 7075 is a massive pain to machine, because 90% of the market seems to be death metal.

As an aside, pretty cool how the Joystick one uses a pair of the direct mounting bolts to double as the faceplate clamping bolts.

 

[HAB]

The Joystick DM stem meets the weight criteria, but hard to find out what their proprietry "8-bit" alloy actually is.

6061, only with some snake oil as an additional alloying element.


I don't reeeeallly know, but I am completely unwilling to believe that it's not something readily commercially available. There's no way a true custom alloy would be price competitive, especially for a small volume stem run. I mean this both in terms of development cost and manufacturing. It's not like Joystick (or anybody else making stems, except maybe Easton) is actually making the material they're working with, and there's a TON of development that has gone into commercially available alloys (mostly from aerospace) that nobody in the bike industry has the resources to replicate.

Machinability is pretty good for 7050/7075 (which are fairly comparably strong), but they are a bunch more expensive than 6061.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

6061, only with some snake oil as an additional alloying element.


I don't reeeeallly know, but I am completely unwilling to believe that it's not something readily commercially available. There's no way a true custom alloy would be price competitive, especially for a small volume stem run. I mean this both in terms of development cost and manufacturing. It's not like Joystick (or anybody else making stems, except maybe Easton) is actually making the material they're working with, and there's a TON of development that has gone into commercially available alloys (mostly from aerospace) that nobody in the bike industry has the resources to replicate.

Machinability is pretty good for 7050/7075 (which are fairly comparably strong), but they are a bunch more expensive than 6061.

This. Someone should send them an email, what the fuck "8-bit alloy" really is.

 

[Flo33]

I had a look recently to see what decent 25.4 bars are still available and other than pretty weighty DJ bars there's kinda nothing anymore :'( so it looks like my next bar purchase will have to include a stem.. Hence my question.

Has CRC finally run out of Funn Full On bars? I might have an unused one in my bike hole, 25,4 and 750 wide, unsure about the rise, might be 15 or 20 mm. It's made of 7075 T6 too