Looks pretty sweet. I'd like to get up there and help out, but school is a bitch. Maybe some time. Not sure if I can justify the cost to race though.
Firestone Walker Race
- Thread starter Zark
- Start date
Compared to other DH entry fees its a deal ... a 2 run format, unlimited pre-rides on Friday before the race and it's in your back yard. 
I still say do a 2 man up format, it seems like that would be awesome
It looks like the course will be fun though, that drop thing was fun.
It looks like the course will be fun though, that drop thing was fun.
I realize all that, but racing is not really my thing and there are just so many other things I could use the money for. Plus, it is most likely I will be working on that Fri. I am definitely not trying to say the race is overly priced.Originally posted by hecktone
Compared to other DH entry fees its a deal ... a 2 run format, unlimited pre-rides on Friday before the race and it's in your back yard.
Plus I forgot something else, if you stick around the entire weekend not only does your $40 entry fee (the going norm from what I can gather is $43-45) get you unlimitted pre-rides on Friday, a 2 run best combined time format, a local race in SB, but if you come back on sunday you can roam the new improved expo area, win prizes in the huge prize raffle, eat some killer food, listen to some great loacl bands, use your race number to get a FREE GLASS OF FIRESTONE and if your one of the first 500 (XC or DH) to register you even get a FREE FWMTB Weekend pint glass to put your free swill in!
Wow is that justification?
Right on, just didn't want others to take it that way, I try my best to provide races that are a vaule to my peers, and oftn I take things only the way they come across to me.
Hope that you can work your sched out to be able to attend, if you want I'll be glad to speak to your boss
Mike
I completely understand, and may have to take you up on your offerOriginally posted by hecktone
Right on, just didn't want others to take it that way, I try my best to provide races that are a vaule to my peers, and oftn I take things only the way they come across to me.
Hope that you can work your sched out to be able to attend, if you want I'll be glad to speak to your boss
Mike
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Crap! $45!? To ride my bike 12 miles and drink a glass of beer?! That is almost $4 per mile. I mean, it sounds like fun. I'd probably do it for $10-15, but sheesh...where does the $ go? Insurance?
You're forgetting the incentive to train (which boils down to an excuse to ride your bike more), a chance to support a local event in a sport you love, a chance to hang with a bunch of like minded individuals and maybe meet some riding buds, there may be some bike-ridin hotties, and last but not least, you still will get more out of it than your monthly cable bill...
Yeah...my wrist has been injured for 4 months now (from a bike crash), so even if I did race, I'm pretty sure I'd finish in the back 25%. I'm just out of practice. So I'm mostly interested in going just to meet other local riders/hang out with like minded indivduals.
My wife would go too, so bump that up to $90. After food, gas, T-shirt, etc. It would probably be a $150-$200 weekend. I want to go, but that is a lot of coin just to hang out for a while and get my ass handed to me.
BTW...I get the most basic Dish Network package. It is only $25/month, and the only reason I pay for TV at all is that I otherwise receive 0 reception where I live.
My wife would go too, so bump that up to $90. After food, gas, T-shirt, etc. It would probably be a $150-$200 weekend. I want to go, but that is a lot of coin just to hang out for a while and get my ass handed to me.
BTW...I get the most basic Dish Network package. It is only $25/month, and the only reason I pay for TV at all is that I otherwise receive 0 reception where I live.
Where does the money go?
Misc. items like course markings $1000
1000 number plates @ $.35 ea $350
Rental of the portabale toliets $1000
One roll off dumpster plus dump fee $300
T shirts $2000
Medals $800
Registration Tent $500
Food supplies $2500
ABC permit $40
USAC Permits $400 (3 Events)
CHP permit for the DH Shuttle Truck $500
Renting the Shuttle Truck $400
Timing Services $5000
Additional insurance on the Shuttle Truck $125
Advertizing $3000
Printing costs $1200
Mailing 1500 flyers $700
Insurance surcharge @$2 per rider $1600
This is not everything either.
This event roughly costs $25000 to promote. It is a full time job that I do because I want there to be a local race for all mountain bikers on the Central Coast.
After the event we donate some coin to a local non-profit. Like I said this is a full time job, and often thankless job, that I do out of a sence of service to my sport. I have a real full time job as well. It takes me 10 solid months to do this right. So do the math thats 4 weeks in a month, 40 hours a week, that's 1600 man hours that I the organizer and promoter put into this event. So we get, lets say with the DH this year 800 racers @ $52 (Pre-reg & lunch) that is $41,600. Subtract the $25,000 from that and you get $16,600 divide that by 1600 that comes to $10.37 an hour.
Yep I'm in it for the money all right. Jeez I might just have to quit my real job because this race promoting gig is really starting to pay! Hell maybe I could get a job at a 7-11?
There is a whole lot more to it than just saying hey lets have a mountain bike race, oh what do say? What about here you guys, this looks like a great spot? Luckily the property owner doesn't charge me a site fee. Do you know what one day rental for a wedding is at Firestone Meadow? It's $8500! So thank god that I'm not having to toss that $25,500 on top of the budget.
Then there would be no race.
This race costs less than any other mountain bike race to enter that I know of and you, the racer, my peer, get more than at any other race too. Have you seen the entry fee for Sea Otter or a National or even othe CA State Series Races?
And one more thing there is no guarantee that even enough racers will show to cover all the costs, shoot I might loss my shirt and risk my families future because I chose to give something back to my sport.
I'd be greatful that there is even a race like this to do in my own backyard.
I hope to see you there.
Enjoy the ride,
Mike
I didn't mean to offend, and I appreciate all your work and dedication.
However, I was merely comparing it to two other races I have experience with. My father in law puts on a half marathon every year. Product promoters and sponsers show up. Entry fee is roughly $20, including a medal for everyone (although I doubt most care about it- but he does), some snacks at the end, watering stations, toilets, timing equipment, etc. etc. Attendance is 300-400 people. He usually turns a tidy profit, though not anywhere near the $17,000 you are expecting. The low thousand dollar range profit is put back into the running club he belongs to. He advertises on a couple of running websites and a running magazine. That is good enough where we get at least some east coast runners every year (the run is in Vancouver Washington)
The last Mtb. race I went to (back when I lived in Ohio) cost about $20 to $25. Granted it wasn't as big of an event as you are putting on, but there was only a fraction as many riders to put up the cash too- maybe 80 riders.
I was suprised at the expense of the timing equipment- over $6 per rider! I sure hope this is something more high tech than a set of timing lights...like maybe individual line-to-line times for each rider regardless of starting position. Otherwise that is one expensive stop watch/timing light/tag collecter. Aren't points based on place rather than time?
Making the DHers pay for their own truck rather than being subsidized by the XCers might help bring the price down (for most) by a couple of bucks. There is about $5k total in advertising too...seems kinda spendy. I've only heard of it via word of mouth (or keyboard, I guess) myself. Aren't T-shirts an extra $12 too?
Maybe with the profits this year you could buy your own timing equipment or tent or something- that might help in the future.
I don't mean to rain on your parade- I really appreciate your devotion and time you put into this event. I'm just saying that $50 is a lot of money to ride 12 miles with other guys, get a time slip, and drink a beer. Maybe it is a good deal for the hardcore racers, but it is definitely a roadblock for people like me who just want to do it for fun.
Since you asked, the SeaOtter entry fee is $45 early/$55 late, and the total prize list is $5000. Perhaps a bigger sponsership might help?
I wish you the best all the same.
-Adam
However, I was merely comparing it to two other races I have experience with. My father in law puts on a half marathon every year. Product promoters and sponsers show up. Entry fee is roughly $20, including a medal for everyone (although I doubt most care about it- but he does), some snacks at the end, watering stations, toilets, timing equipment, etc. etc. Attendance is 300-400 people. He usually turns a tidy profit, though not anywhere near the $17,000 you are expecting. The low thousand dollar range profit is put back into the running club he belongs to. He advertises on a couple of running websites and a running magazine. That is good enough where we get at least some east coast runners every year (the run is in Vancouver Washington)
The last Mtb. race I went to (back when I lived in Ohio) cost about $20 to $25. Granted it wasn't as big of an event as you are putting on, but there was only a fraction as many riders to put up the cash too- maybe 80 riders.
I was suprised at the expense of the timing equipment- over $6 per rider! I sure hope this is something more high tech than a set of timing lights...like maybe individual line-to-line times for each rider regardless of starting position. Otherwise that is one expensive stop watch/timing light/tag collecter. Aren't points based on place rather than time?
Making the DHers pay for their own truck rather than being subsidized by the XCers might help bring the price down (for most) by a couple of bucks. There is about $5k total in advertising too...seems kinda spendy. I've only heard of it via word of mouth (or keyboard, I guess) myself. Aren't T-shirts an extra $12 too?
Maybe with the profits this year you could buy your own timing equipment or tent or something- that might help in the future.
I don't mean to rain on your parade- I really appreciate your devotion and time you put into this event. I'm just saying that $50 is a lot of money to ride 12 miles with other guys, get a time slip, and drink a beer. Maybe it is a good deal for the hardcore racers, but it is definitely a roadblock for people like me who just want to do it for fun.
Since you asked, the SeaOtter entry fee is $45 early/$55 late, and the total prize list is $5000. Perhaps a bigger sponsership might help?
I wish you the best all the same.
-Adam
Adam - I won't go tit for tat with you too much, and yes you did offend me.
But a few things I will touch on.
First this is not a running race. This is a mountain bike race where in the XC aong we have 68 different age groups with differnt start times.
Second we used to time our event with a group from the local running club with their timing equipment and they always screwed it up. So we brought in Tem Big Bear last year and nobody went home without their time and placing.
Third, every racer who finishes in the top 3 will get a medal and some sort of merc prize. Then there is the $5000 prize raffle that every racer receive a ticket for as part of their $40/$46 entry ($10-$9 cheaper than the otter). Your entry at Firestone is not $50 as you stated above. It is only that much if you late to reg or if you choose to buy the great BBQ. There is a $1500 cash purse for the Pro-Semipro XC field, $500 for the Pro Women XC, & $200 Cash for each of the Expert Age Groups. Our total prize list including the raffle is approaching $10,000.
Again for your entry fee you will receive a goody bag filled with Cfif sars and Shots, Platnium Bars, a Raffle Ticket, a FWMTB W Pint Glass (1st 500 racers), and with you number you get on free glass of Firestone. Then after your race you get to hang out at the great Crossroads Meadow on Firestone Vineyard, eat food (if you chose to pay the cheap price for the great BBQ!) listen to great local bands, win a prize in the huge prize raffle, walk the 10 or so expo booths (sponsors), and if you choose to buy more beer you can do so for less $ than your local bar.
Oh wait one more thing. I have been in this sport for 25 years. If I did not promote this race it would not happen. This event does donate to a non-profit, it should be expected to pay for itself, and as the event director, I should expect to get something other than a pat on the back for organizing it.
Do you get paid for your work? You do right?
So I don't see the issue. BTW I used to give each racer their BBQ and a free shirt for their $40, but this cause the race to always finish in the red. I had to change that this year, and frankly I'm bummed about it. Yest the racers do need to pay for the T-Shirt and the BBQ and I hope that this action will pay for both of these features.
I wish it was as easy as getting $30,000 worth of cash sponsors, but it is not and that is an imposible number to achive for.
Shoot I don't see where I'm going wrong, and I don't see how for all the time and energy that I put out to make this event happen that what little bit I do make even is anywhere near a "tidy profit." It isn't a profit, financialy I am under paid, But that is not why I do this. I get satisfaction form all the happy racers, hard core and not that bring their families and thourghly enjoy the day.
And when I get questioned by someone who accuses me of ripping them off, I get pissed.
Sorry about that.
I hope to see you at the race.
Enjoy the ride, now I'm off to my real job!
Mike
how big is the pro mens purse for the downhill?
Prize List: All prizes will go to TOP 3. Pros are to split $500 in cash and medals to TOP 3, merchandise, and medals to all other categories, and will be awarded at the Pasta Feed Dinner at the Brewery.
Pretty good I reckon, but I haven't looked into what pro purses at other races are like.
Hey since your in SLO you should come down and give us some input on the course, I'd love to see what you think of it
yeah. let me know when you guys go. we've been digging some trails up here so we've all been busy. this xc guys split $1500 and the dh guys get $500? what's with that?
According to HeckTone, all the shuttle truck expenses come out to over $1000, so considering that there will likely be fewer DHers than XCers, you guys are probably still ahead of the field $ wise despite the smaller prize purse. Also, from Zark's pictures, it looks like they are having to pretty much build the entire DH course from scratch. I'm not sure, but I'd bet the XC course is pretty much pre-existing from previous races and existing trails and roads. Just having fewer contestants in an event alone usually makes for a small for a smaller purse, which is probably why the women's event doesn't pay as much either.
You guys are all right on mark regarding prize money. I wish everything could be equal but it can't. One reason the XC guys get more money is because their race is part of the American Mountain Bike Challenge and the CA State Championship series. The DH is not.
This DH race is a test. It's our first year. I don't know if 10 DH'ers or 1000 DH'ers are going to make it. Yes the smaller the projected field the smaller the purse. It also has to do with cash sponsorship or a lack of regarding the DH. Please note though that in the past some of my prize purses have grown in the weeks leading up to race day.
So I hope you all understand and can make it. I tell ya what spread the word get us 300 pre-reged DH racers before the dead line of April 19th and I'll do you one better, I'll bump it up to a $2000 cash pro purse and $200 for each Expert age group.
See I'm not really a bad guy.
Mike
Ps. Adam were cool, I hope. I'm a bit of a hothead sometimes
yeah. that makes sense. i was just wondering. not trying to complain at all. it's still better than what norba pays. im stoked that local races pay pros. fontana should take after you guys. they don't pay squat.
THANK YOU beaverbiker!
That's all I want a little bit of props. But seriously if we can hit 300 pre-reg DH racers I will bump the prize list up, make it 10 deep for the pros too!
Hecky
ill be able to get every downhiller i know in the san luis obispo area to come. i guarantee that. they'd all be stoked on a local race.
Next weekend we are working the course both days (11:30 till ?) Saturday we'll be working the lower sections into the finish line and through the trees. We need jumps and to shape a little.
Sunday we will continue the work on the upper section with the über-berm and making......more jumps!
The course is coming together, but there is still so much to do. Come on out and help. The more folks help, the better the race is, the more fun we all have
PM me if you need directions
Noah
Sunday we will continue the work on the upper section with the über-berm and making......more jumps!
The course is coming together, but there is still so much to do. Come on out and help. The more folks help, the better the race is, the more fun we all have
PM me if you need directions Noah
I think if there's one kinda unavodable stupid section on the course, you should name it the FRONJ section....or anything that lands on flat.Originally posted by Zark
Next weekend we are working the course both days (11:30 till ?) Saturday we'll be working the lower sections into the finish line and through the trees. We need jumps and to shape a little.
Sunday we will continue the work on the upper section with the über-berm and making......more jumps!
The course is coming together, but there is still so much to do. Come on out and help. The more folks help, the better the race is, the more fun we all have
Noah
909
To uphill, even?
619
There is no uphill ...
805
Uphill landings, man. Orven raves about them hourly.
East County 4 LYFE
Originally posted by Zark
How about a chicayne that you have to dump all your speed?
FRONJicayne?
Any chicane that dumps speed is like a 90 degree turn..ala Fontana.
1-800
Sounds like a regional battle. I'll get some of ol sic NorCals down to race.
We're sponsored but we don't race or more so ride but we like to talk a lot about it and smooch but regardless we'll provide exposure there.
Thanks to my sponsors, bro.
We're sponsored but we don't race or more so ride but we like to talk a lot about it and smooch but regardless we'll provide exposure there.
Thanks to my sponsors, bro.
Attachments
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Thanks to my sponsors, bro!
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Thanks to my sponsors, bro!
This pretty much sums up today... awesome!
We dug, we shaped, we rode. The course is looking real good and one or two weekends its should be close to done (i hope)
Kat from Rockgardn came out and helped. His family made burgers, which were tasty! Thanks again!
Here is a shot from today. One of the only good ones since I'm still figuring out my camera. I just met this guy today and I think his name's Joe (sorry if I'm wrong, I'm bad with names sometimes)
Thanks to Ed Brown, Dave, Carlin, Kat& his family, Mike Hecker & Joe for all the work today.
Noah
We dug, we shaped, we rode. The course is looking real good and one or two weekends its should be close to done (i hope)
Kat from Rockgardn came out and helped. His family made burgers, which were tasty! Thanks again!
Here is a shot from today. One of the only good ones since I'm still figuring out my camera. I just met this guy today and I think his name's Joe (sorry if I'm wrong, I'm bad with names sometimes)
Thanks to Ed Brown, Dave, Carlin, Kat& his family, Mike Hecker & Joe for all the work today.
Noah
Damnit, I want to ride there! My first two races were the Firestone XC race, so much fun. Looks like a great addition to the event, props!
The Ito
The Ito
rad! props on the hard work and keeping racing alive!
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