I can get this for $360, pretty much the same thing.
Frameworks DH frames are happening
- Thread starter SuboptimusPrime
- Start date
my comment was more that the DH market is different then vs now. lots of IH sold because so many of the other bikes on the market back then were total crap by comparison. nowadays basically all the bikes on the market are more or less well sorted. sure, there was the sam hill effect. but also the whole "win on sunday sell on monday" mantra doesn't exist in DH anymore, and its debatable if it ever truly did.
Not talking about the Ironhorse Sunday...
The Ironhorse SGS... It was as crappy as all the other bikes there. The Mad Catz team basically put Ironhorse on the map for DH in 2002/3. Is it any coincidence that you were seeing a bunch of Ironhorses at east coast races in 2005?
You guys seriously trying to suggest that as a new entrant to the market, race results would have no effect on marketability of a DH frame??
The Ironhorse SGS... It was as crappy as all the other bikes there. The Mad Catz team basically put Ironhorse on the map for DH in 2002/3. Is it any coincidence that you were seeing a bunch of Ironhorses at east coast races in 2005?
You guys seriously trying to suggest that as a new entrant to the market, race results would have no effect on marketability of a DH frame??
Does it come with a motor?
yes. the only reason my interest in this is non-zero is because it's being welded by Frank. i suspect I'm not the only one either.
I'd bet more than a few racers would buy one to also get a bit of race set-up / tuning connection with Neko. You could be just a dude with a Transition Tr11 with no help in setting up, or you could pay a bit more and get to connect with the Frameworks crew at the East Coast US races. A tighter connection to a scene.
a lot of the new england racers from way back know him personally, myself included.
no t-bar @ gwinrock needed!!!!!11111
As cool and storied as FTW is, he is nothing special in terms of what he does currently. Especially these days, his shop is very low tech. As sad as it may be, Taiwan is light years ahead in terms of alloy frame production and technology. The tube forming/shaping processes, use of forged parts, full test lab at the factory for prototyping, etc. They have that shit dialed.
You're paying a premium price for Neko and Frank, not the actual product.
It's a little disappointing, I was hoping for a solid full alloy frame for a decent price. But I guess you have to fund that race team somehow. But no way I'm paying $4500 for a $2000 frame to help the cause.
I think this will be my next DH rig, you can get a full bike for the price of a Frameworks+shock.
You're paying a premium price for Neko and Frank, not the actual product.
It's a little disappointing, I was hoping for a solid full alloy frame for a decent price. But I guess you have to fund that race team somehow. But no way I'm paying $4500 for a $2000 frame to help the cause.
I think this will be my next DH rig, you can get a full bike for the price of a Frameworks+shock.
personally, if i'm dropping money on a bike and there's an opportunity for my $$ to go somebody I know rather than an overseas factory, that's certainly a factor i'm going to consider. i also understand that's not a deciding factor for everyone, and many people, such as yourself, shop primarily on price point.
despite his low tech shop, he somehow still manages to produce a bike that can raced at world cups.
Yeah, with cracks everywhere after not even a full season.
Makes the old tin can Sessions look durable.
Neko having to pick through frames looking for one that was "cracked the least" is pretty funny.
I don't shop by price point alone, and I pay attention to the company putting out the product and where my money goes. Check out Airdrop, they are doing some things very right IMO.
But based on what I know about frame production, the Neko bike is over priced for what it is.
I am super pumped on the whole project and was willing to put up my money, but not to the point I feel like I am taken advantage of.
If Neko started a USA DH non-profit organization to help kids get on the WC scene, or something to help grow the sport domestically, I'd have no problem sending him a few hundred bucks.
But based on what I know about frame production, the Neko bike is over priced for what it is.
I am super pumped on the whole project and was willing to put up my money, but not to the point I feel like I am taken advantage of.
If Neko started a USA DH non-profit organization to help kids get on the WC scene, or something to help grow the sport domestically, I'd have no problem sending him a few hundred bucks.
it's not like ASPAC frames never have pre-production prob........ oh.....
even if i were in the market for a DH bike i wouldn't spend that much on a frame, but i get why it costs what it does.
Neko is definitely doing a lot to help develop the US DH race scene, and i can't readily think of anyone else doing more.
Have you listened to this?
He goes into some pretty good detail about what happened, when, where, why etc.
Yeah. I realise plenty people will know him. Same deal here, cycling is kinda a big.clique afterall.
Sure, other bikes are sorted now. But e.g. Commencal and Trek have reliability issues. If Neko has really sorted out all issues of his frame, it could be a great option for a privateer that needs a trouble-free bike. Especially in the US, I would also expect great spare parts and race support.
BTW: in the old days the Sunday was so popular because other bikes that were also good were more expensive, e.g. V10, M3, M6, DHR.
we get it. You’re a fanboi. But are you actually gonna buy the damn thing? it’s easy to say you would buy the frame. But woulds alone aren’t gonna make this Frame Work..
I hope he sells enough to break even and maybe even a little more to keep funding whatever good things he's up to. But come on guys, you can't look at it from a purely logical/objective perspective. Lots of people have big appetites (and wallets) for small batch products with good stories but murky futures. Not for me but I won't yuck their yum.
I personally think all mountainbikes should cost 200k
would keep out the riffraff
.....actually that might make it all rifraff, exclusively. Nevermind.
Okay, only one mountainbike per year can be made. You have to compete gladiator style for last man standing to the death to get it. Of course this will be reality tv that no one will care about except for a select few physicians and walmart family descendents but they'll totally care about it a lot. Because of instagram.
In! But only if it's an e-bike. 
oh of courseIn! But only if it's an e-bike.
the entire point is to appeal to raging egotistical douchebags who are more into the idea of mountainbiking than mountainbiking itself...so it wouldn't be anything else. Gotta be something of the highest perceived value
We'll get more blood that way
Yep, spent lots of time there. Taiwan has it's shit together.
You must be thinking of China, huge difference.
Not yet.
Signing Asa was the best business move Neko could ever make.
When that kid gets his bike on a WC podium next year, those things will start flying off the shelves over priced or not!
Like hell.
are you the real Kanye?
If Taiwan can make the world’s most advanced semiconductors they can sure as shit slap together a few tubes of metal and lay up some carbon…
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So a Chinese made Santa Cruz frame is bad?
Slightly different in that they (PON) own the factory and it just does their products. I know some carbon is made in Vietnam and Taiwan as well.
But if you're working with a carbon frame vendor in China the sketch factor is high. Which is why all the bike companies like SC and Specialized have their own factories in China, or factories that just make parts for them and they have their own employees on the floor full time.
I think it's related to the culture and workers, typical Chinese factories are almost like labor camps. The employees live there in housing, are fed there, get paid shit and really can't leave. Which is why after Chinese New Year holiday ever year, when all the factories shut down for 3-4 weeks and people go home, typically about 30% of the workers just don't come back. In general the workers don't give a shit about the product they are making.
And of course there is the Chinese government.....
Taiwan is normal in that the workers/employees go home and night and don't live at the factory. They take more pride in what they are doing and their job/career. Taiwan is very different from China culturally and in terms of governmental control.
Pretty sure Neko is using a Taiwan vendor (VIP) for his carbon parts.
I think prices are insane everywhere.
I was checking out the Chromag Lowdown just for the hell of it...$4000 CAD for a steel front end and aluminum rear. At least it comes with a shock. If you want mulletness, you have to buy a link for $350 at checkout (why not swap links before the frame is shipped and keep the price the same??).
Then yesterday I was toying with the idea of switching from a Fox 40 to the Ohlins DH38. Between 2021 (when I bought my 40) and now, the price has gone up about $300. The new boxxer retails for $2700-something!
Garbage.
I was checking out the Chromag Lowdown just for the hell of it...$4000 CAD for a steel front end and aluminum rear. At least it comes with a shock. If you want mulletness, you have to buy a link for $350 at checkout (why not swap links before the frame is shipped and keep the price the same??).
Then yesterday I was toying with the idea of switching from a Fox 40 to the Ohlins DH38. Between 2021 (when I bought my 40) and now, the price has gone up about $300. The new boxxer retails for $2700-something!
Garbage.
Inflation is real. The last time there was a domesticatlly produced race bike option they cost more than $4k in today’s money.
Imagine if the M1 actually ends up getting produced domestically… frame only it will end up just as if not more expensive…
Imagine if the M1 actually ends up getting produced domestically… frame only it will end up just as if not more expensive…