As I said before, what do you think goes into QC of those fabs? I'll spoil it for you - it's an effort (domestic and foreign) that is far above and beyond the budget and technical capacity of bike frame manufacturing. Not comparable in any sense.
Frameworks DH frames are happening
- Thread starter SuboptimusPrime
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Its hard to compare that, I just cant see they frames having the same hipster tax on them in 10 years. Not a chance
The value of something is what someone is willing pay for it. If Neko can sell arun of them for that price, well there you go.
you live in a very, very small placeAre there 100 DH riders in Murca?
One that did not in fact invent pavement, but due to its tiny isolated locale, doesn't even know it
so sad......
the pride and joy of the nation of 6, scottireland
don’t. just don’t.
prehistoric germans from the stone age invented that shit. not your hundred some years old nation.
you have no culture. you have no history.
And yet, some companies are sitting on massive overstock and blowing their bikes out. The industry as a whole over-produced in response to covid, and the result is that its harder to get away with insane pricing and blame it on Covid. And its especially hard to charge premium prices when the guy next door that overproduced a premium bike is now blowing it out for 1/2 the price of your best price.
Heck, on the other side of the "premium" scale, YT is putting out a COMPLETE Tues with top of the line suspension and X01 build kit for $300 more than just the frame sans shock of a Frameworks frame. I get YT's customer service is pretty bare bones, but if somebody can break a bike and go buy a complete new one for the cost of a single build, you're in trouble if you're selling the single build.
Look. I get it, at smaller scale its harder to cut margins that far, he's got to pay people and so on. There are plenty of costs associated with starting a business, and the Athertons are going through the same shit (with similarly priced bikes). But the Athertons have a few gimmicks - like "carbon frame, 3d printed titanium lugs, custom geometry, world cup race winning bikes." And I'm not sure what special magic he's bringing to the table. "This bike is really well thought out and catches some small details that nobody's really noticed that haven't yet been sorted" doesn't inspire me to scream "take my money!"
With those kind of sales numbers and prices, he's not going to be making a lot of money, and factoring in expenses like labor, warranties, marketing etc, this screams passion project of "I want to continue rolling this train and need additional funding to make it happen," not "I want to bring the best bike possible to my customers and this is my path forward."
At the end of the day, he's attempting to break into a small mature market with low demand in the middle of a global pullback on consumer discretionary. The days of each new year of bikes producing something revolutionary are a over a decade past, and the sales pitch of "lets make imperceptible improvements" is a tough pitch to swallow. With a market as mature as the DH market is, I question if he's bringing enough to the table.
That said, I've never participated in a sport with so many suckers who have to buy the most expensive gimmicky shit or they wont be happy. And if some local dude who builds good trails for me to ride wants to take their money so he can keep his passion project rolling by selling them frames that are actually pretty good, and the only victims are that the big publicly traded companies like Santa Cruz and Specialized aren't able to get quite as much sucker money, more power to him. I wish him the best of luck.
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I heard through the non-cycling grapevine prior to the launch of the company that the Athertons have a very wealthy backer and don’t really need the numbers to work out.
While I agree with you that this is a hard sell, I cannot see someone that buys a YT being also interested in this. There are enough middle-aged guys with disposable income (....cough...cough... Ridemonkeys...) that do want something special for a bike. Yes, they could buy a V10, but at every local race or bike park you see 10 of those. Here you can get something not that common, apparently well thought out and tested with a cool story. In addition, you can feel good about supporting a program that supports the US DH scene.
I bet Niko's motivation is to fund bikes he gives away/sells cheap to local kids that way. The larger production run lowers the costs per frame for him and if he sells half of them at sticker price, he can help out a bunch of folks with the rest of the frames.
Not sure of he does, but if I would be him I would offer set-up clinics, "ride with Neko", etc. for an additional cost to add value that none of the larger manufacturers can and will offer.
Similar idea to what K9 tried to do a couple of years ago in the UK. Not sure why this project did not take off more, because I thought at the time it was a pretty good offer for a privateer racer to get a competitive platform with a full set-up session to get your baseline settings dialed, similar to what the pro teams do in the preseason.
The very wealthy investor is that the athertons, jokes aside one of the dragons den guys is invested in it. Hes not skint.
They also raised over $1 million USD from the kickstarter type investment crap they had prior to launch.
Forgot about that too.
Do any of you americans actually go to DH race in America these days? Parents buy dh bikes. Most races have less than 10 people in most adult classes.
These same parents are already paying the Mullaly’s nearly a grand in entries and shuttling their kids around to 7+ events… many of the regional juniors in the Southeast now race in Europe a few times a year. Having “factory” support at literally every race you attend seems pretty useful in the days of Commencals and Transitions that crack when you look at them wrong, just like having spare dampers on hand that are tuned for your bike….
These same parents are already paying the Mullaly’s nearly a grand in entries and shuttling their kids around to 7+ events… many of the regional juniors in the Southeast now race in Europe a few times a year. Having “factory” support at literally every race you attend seems pretty useful in the days of Commencals and Transitions that crack when you look at them wrong, just like having spare dampers on hand that are tuned for your bike….
nah we just congregate for the annual boys trip at whistler, drink too much, ride blue velvet poorly all day and then oggle at 20 year old women in the village every night while we're either away from our wives or get back at the world post divorce
we are 50
all the youngins just buy tight pants, welding shades and explain to everyone how their enduro bike is just as good as a dh bike, which of course none of them have ever ridden
you been to whistler and looked around lately?
I can make fun of old fucks like gary just like I make fun of 20 year olds.
I'm versatile
My point is that most of the true dh population has aged out from previous era, and most noobs don't even know what a dh bike really is. Hubs like whistler seem to be the only places that foster dh stuff anymore. And old middle aged men on blue velvet talking about pAlMeR still crack me up
Damn, I resemble that. Wish I had thought to invite you to join us for Palmer's Hall of Fame induction last week at the MTB Museum in Fairfax.
See a fair amount of the yoofs on proper downhill bikes 'round the local bike park. Fair amount of old-timers too. It's them fuckin' millennials I see on the enduro bikes.
Saw the Mullaly special up close last weekend under one of them kids. Cole-something? It looked great and he was ripping on it. I'd be one of those old people with more money than sense and get one, if I wasn't staring down the barrel of 4 years of college expenses.
Saw the Mullaly special up close last weekend under one of them kids. Cole-something? It looked great and he was ripping on it. I'd be one of those old people with more money than sense and get one, if I wasn't staring down the barrel of 4 years of college expenses.
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I was astonished that I couldn't find any real DH bikes to rent at Sun Peaks this summer. Only some Enduro bike with a low end Boxxer on it. I went out and bought a V10 the week after that just to take with to BC over the next couple years and not deal with the rental garbage at Whistler. Nowhere in the states I'd actually want one however.
speak for yourself
You know I'm not 50 or even close right?
see, one can be aware of a thing, without being that thing......
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It's spelled V E H E M E N T
Dude, you're only like 343 dog years.You know I'm not 50 or even close right?
Just a spring chicken.
Plenty of young folks on proper DH bikes at both Sun Peaks and Whistler this year. Some ludicrous riding on display in Sun Peaks in particular. I think the weekends the places filled up with tourist and rental squids etc, but I'm sure there's still a good market for DH bikes.
Actually reckon DH bikes will come back big time now the EWS has been murdered. Enduro bikes will end up being for us scum that don't have lift or shuttle access handy.
Actually reckon DH bikes will come back big time now the EWS has been murdered. Enduro bikes will end up being for us scum that don't have lift or shuttle access handy.
you can't see it but there's a happy dance going on halfway around the world
but really, was it murdered, or did god just realize he made a mistake?
I know how horrible it was that a social and inclusive form of gravity racing developed that didn't require trust funds, French citizenship, a single use bike and access to chairlifts all while showcasing riding spots all over the globe. But you're safe now - we've returned to watching private school boys racing motorway wide courses solely within a baguette throw of Paris wearing skinsuit-tight outfits.
The world is healing.