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Minimum wage

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
in soviet honduras, minimum wage kidnaps you
Over the past three years, kidnappings for ransom in Honduras have steadily increased. According to Government of Honduras statistics, kidnappings rose from five in 2005, to 16 in 2006, 42 in 2007, and 121 in 2008. Ransoms were paid in 40 percent of the kidnappings in 2008, totaling an estimated US$ 850,000. The Regional Security Officer in Tegucigalpa notes that kidnappings are often underreported throughout Honduras, and these figures may not be representative of the real amount.

Honduran kidnapping gangs prefer to target affluent Honduran entrepreneurs or their family members. These gangs have targeted, to a lesser extent, foreign and local business managers of multinational corporations or their family members. U.S. citizens, although not specifically targeted for kidnapping, have been kidnapped in Honduras. There have been three kidnappings of U.S. citizens in February alone. In these cases, however, their abductions appear to have little to do with their U.S. citizenship but more to do with the victim’s family connection to an affluent Honduran entrepreneur.

Analysis

In January, Honduran President Manuel Zelaya increased the minimum wage 60 percent, raising monthly wages from US$ 181 to $289. As a result, an estimated 15,000 people have been laid off in urban areas. This number is expected to steadily increase as businesses cannot afford the new mandatory wages. Remittances from Hondurans in the U.S. have also decreased throughout 2008.

Some analysts predict increased crime in Honduras due to citizens unable to find legitimate sources of income. Many unemployed Hondurans could look to kidnapping for ransom in order to obtain large sums of money for a small amount of planning and effort. As the disparity between economic classes continues, wealthy Hondurans or foreigners of affluent appearance conducting business in Honduras could continue to be targeted at a higher rate.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
24
SF, CA
Being kidnapped is a great way to get someone else to pay for your tropical vacation.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,700
1,751
chez moi
Overseas Security Advisory Council is a State Department program which interfaces Regional Security Officers from embassies worldwide with the local US (and sometimes other third-country) business (and sometimes NGO) community.

They get together every once in a while (RSO and the country reps for the businesses), talk about the general situation, discuss possibilities and/or security recommendations, share information/contacts, etc. The website acts as a summary/clearinghouse of open-source information.
 

Defenestrated

Turbo Monkey
Mar 28, 2007
1,657
0
Earth
As a result, an estimated 15,000 people have been laid off in urban areas. This number is expected to steadily increase as businesses cannot afford the new mandatory wages.
I am going to utterly reject the idea that businesses have to pay slave wages in order to operate.

I want to see their profit margins, I bet they can't afford to profiteer and pay fair wages at the same time.

Either way, lol capitalism.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,410
13,537
Portland, OR
Digging up an old thread because I had an interesting conversation with my lady last night.

So we were talking about the idea of raising the minimum wage like Seattle just did. I thought it was a great thing until she pointed out something. What happens to those who already make $15/hr?

So you have folks in her office that are "dental assistants". They go through a 1 year or so training at some school for $10k or $15k. When finished they typically make about $15/hr. So rather than make minimum wage, they chose to get additional training to make more money.

But now you have people making $15/hr WITHOUT the additional training. So where would the motivation be to do a little bit more to make a little bit more when you can make the minimum @ $15/hr?

I think Scotland is doing it right.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/cap-wages-of-highest-earners-patrick-harvie-urges-1-3401849

“Inequality can’t be tackled without addressing the excesses at the top, as well as outlawing poverty pay at the bottom. That means progressive taxation, as well as a humane welfare system that’s designed to guarantee dignity for everyone instead of stigmatising and humiliating people.”
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
Kinda like, what about those that got busted for weed and now, weed is legal? :D

Will the educated entry level jobs mentioned above start at a higher pay rate now?

It will be interesting to see what becomes of this new minimum wage thing.

Will burgers go up in price? Rent goes up cause the landlord needs more money to buy his cheeseburgers...

Will the fast food joints finally automate their businesses? There is no need for humans to be working inside a fast food joint. I see them becoming giant vending machines soon. Like redbox...
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,506
In hell. Welcome!
I thought it was a great thing until she pointed out something. What happens to those who already make $15/hr?
Everyone will get a little poorer, with the exception of those deeply in debt. I doubt this inflation will go hand in hand with growth, expect to experience some good old stagflation.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,964
12,892
In a van.... down by the river
Digging up an old thread because I had an interesting conversation with my lady last night.

So we were talking about the idea of raising the minimum wage like Seattle just did. I thought it was a great thing until she pointed out something. What happens to those who already make $15/hr?

So you have folks in her office that are "dental assistants". They go through a 1 year or so training at some school for $10k or $15k. When finished they typically make about $15/hr. So rather than make minimum wage, they chose to get additional training to make more money.

But now you have people making $15/hr WITHOUT the additional training. So where would the motivation be to do a little bit more to make a little bit more when you can make the minimum @ $15/hr?
All wages go up, all prices go up, then we sit around wringing our hands because $15/hr is no longer a living wage.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,964
12,892
In a van.... down by the river
<snip>
Will the educated entry level jobs mentioned above start at a higher pay rate now?

It will be interesting to see what becomes of this new minimum wage thing.

Will burgers go up in price? Rent goes up cause the landlord needs more money to buy his cheeseburgers...

Will the fast food joints finally automate their businesses? There is no need for humans to be working inside a fast food joint. I see them becoming giant vending machines soon. Like redbox...
Yes.

Yes.

Yes. This is where the big $$ is going to be made. Once the cost of automation crosses the cost of a fully-staffed fast food joint... you bet your happy a$$ people are going to lose their minimum-wage jobs.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
so maybe my $5 sub won't go up in price much more, but the bread will be smaller, less fixins, and twice as long to make it due to fewer staff.

win/win/wut?
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Digging up an old thread because I had an interesting conversation with my lady last night.

So we were talking about the idea of raising the minimum wage like Seattle just did. I thought it was a great thing until she pointed out something. What happens to those who already make $15/hr?

So you have folks in her office that are "dental assistants". They go through a 1 year or so training at some school for $10k or $15k. When finished they typically make about $15/hr. So rather than make minimum wage, they chose to get additional training to make more money.

But now you have people making $15/hr WITHOUT the additional training. So where would the motivation be to do a little bit more to make a little bit more when you can make the minimum @ $15/hr?

I think Scotland is doing it right.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/cap-wages-of-highest-earners-patrick-harvie-urges-1-3401849
People who make $15 now will end up getting raises, because who the F wants to clean people's teeth all day when you can work as a cashier at Home Depot for the same amount of money? So people at the minimum wage will get a big raise, people between the minimum wage and $15/hour will get a smaller raise, and people making more than $15 will get an even smaller raise, decreasing as the pay scale goes up. People making ~$20-25/hour probably won't see much of any change.

The result will be the poorest people will get the most, then lower-middle-class, and middle-class and up won't get much of anything, other than any economic benefit of poorer people having more money.

Personally as a small business owner I'd LOVE for that to happen here. The possibility of my customers having more money in their pocket to buy my product?? I'd go for that in a HEARTBEAT! Of course, the Republicans in the state legislature passed a bill back in '11 prohibiting any municipality from setting a minimum wage higher than the state's... Yay, local control.... :rolleyes:

edit: Of course, a higher minimum wage rewards small business owners who actually, you know, WORK for a living instead of just exploiting low-wage workers by telling them to go on food stamps.
 
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$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
http://gothamist.com/2014/06/05/living_wage_casino_workers.php

so after reading this, i'm wondering: are we returning to 'the good ol days' when a bus driver, a vending machine refiller, a retail clerk, can all be the single household earner & everyone's going to be all right?

i further wonder: if healthcare costs were also restored to 'the good ol days' (i.e., negligible), will this suffice?

i get the feeling the answer is still 'no' all around. hope i'm wrong, or this is the dawn of the day of reckoning for many tens of millions. guess we'll know more in 5-10 yrs.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,228
24,729
media blackout
http://gothamist.com/2014/06/05/living_wage_casino_workers.php

so after reading this, i'm wondering: are we returning to 'the good ol days' when a bus driver, a vending machine refiller, a retail clerk, can all be the single household earner & everyone's going to be all right?

i further wonder: if healthcare costs were also restored to 'the good ol days' (i.e., negligible), will this suffice?

i get the feeling the answer is still 'no' all around. hope i'm wrong, or this is the dawn of the day of reckoning for many tens of millions. guess we'll know more in 5-10 yrs.
maybe it means the top 1% won't be able to buy their 7th summer home or 22nd sports car :nopity:
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
i'm making a mental note to bump this thread when president bachman is coming up on the end of her third term
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,506
In hell. Welcome!
Just skip this and establish a full regulation of wages across all industries and occupations where a law will tell your employer what you must earn. After all, it worked really great in the Eastern bloc.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,228
24,729
media blackout
Just skip this and establish a full regulation of wages across all industries and occupations where a law will tell your employer what you must earn. After all, it worked really great in the Eastern bloc.
someone wants to go FR.


do you want a real response to this?
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
&#8220;Are you happy with the $15 wage?&#8221; I asked the full-time cleaning lady.
&#8220;It sounds good, but it&#8217;s not good,&#8221; the woman said.
&#8220;Why?&#8221; I asked.
&#8220;I lost my 401k, health insurance, paid holiday, and vacation,&#8221; she responded. &#8220;No more free food,&#8221; she added.
The hotel used to feed her. Now, she has to bring her own food. Also, no overtime, she said. She used to work extra hours and received overtime pay.
What else? I asked.
&#8220;I have to pay for parking,&#8221; she said.
http://www.nwasianweekly.com/2014/05/blog-seatac-tells-us-15-minimum-wage/
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,519
7,853
Minimum wage won't change that jobs at the bottom of the barrel suck. Having a floor for suckage seems a good idea, even if lateral transfers such as the above occur.