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Musical chair game 2016 or Teh offseason prophecy

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,612
5,930
in a single wide, cooking meth...
No doubt he'll just #Ednuro the fuck out of a few select Downhill events to second places as usual.

Racing just wouldn't be true to the spirit'
I dunno if he's planning on hitting a few 'select' WC races, but there's not much on the menu that would be SB6-able other than maybe Cairns. He'd obviously be able to get down the hill on his Endurbro, but I'd be super impressed if grabbed a podium at a WC race (i.e. not PMB). Maybe he's looking to hit non-WC DH events.

EDIT - keep forgetting he's on Big S now, so I guess he could just race a sweet ass asymetrical Demo.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO
How many top 5's did Graves get at WC DH races in his career? I don't think he is faster now unless Yeti was hydrating him from the Fountain of Youth?
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,654
1,129
NORCAL is the hizzle
http://www.outsideonline.com/2055881/why-did-aaron-gwin-leave-specialized

Not sure if this was already posted but it provides pretty good insight. This was never about Specialized's ability to pay, it's all about willingness to pay, and how much DH means to them. They have enough money to build their own wind tunnel but they're not willing to pony up and pay a top guy what he can command in the market because their DH bike “accounts for almost nothing.” Nice.

The Demo might account for more if it was better-liked (zing!), but regardless, that's a heck of a bitch-slap to an entire sport that means a lot to many people.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,001
24,549
media blackout
http://www.outsideonline.com/2055881/why-did-aaron-gwin-leave-specialized

Not sure if this was already posted but it provides pretty good insight. This was never about Specialized's ability to pay, it's all about willingness to pay, and how much DH means to them. They have enough money to build their own wind tunnel but they're not willing to pony up and pay a top guy what he can command in the market because their DH bike “accounts for almost nothing.” Nice.

The Demo might account for more if it was better-liked (zing!), but regardless, that's a heck of a bitch-slap to an entire sport that means a lot to many people.
let's not forget that there were a number of years where they didn't have a DH race program, yet alone a DH bike.
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,697
13,051
Cackalacka du Nord
I have no problem with companies investing money in what makes them money. If it's not making money, don't invest in it. And we can take our business elsewhere too. Untwist those panties, ye statistically insignificant ones . . .
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,001
24,549
media blackout
http://www.outsideonline.com/2055881/why-did-aaron-gwin-leave-specialized

Not sure if this was already posted but it provides pretty good insight. This was never about Specialized's ability to pay, it's all about willingness to pay, and how much DH means to them. They have enough money to build their own wind tunnel but they're not willing to pony up and pay a top guy what he can command in the market because their DH bike “accounts for almost nothing.” Nice.

The Demo might account for more if it was better-liked (zing!), but regardless, that's a heck of a bitch-slap to an entire sport that means a lot to many people.
having now read that article, the big takeaway is that road is still king. always has been, always will be. mtb in general is peanuts compared to road. DH is the dust from the peanut shell.
 

squiby

Chimp
Jul 26, 2010
91
13
Gwin is a soldier of faith. YT has soul? Specialized is the soulless incarnation of the antichrist?

Can't wait for the battle of good and evil to play out on the world stage.....BRING ON LOURDES!
 

schwaaa31

Turbo Monkey
Jul 30, 2002
1,435
1,024
Clinton Massachusetts
So is Brosnan a one man show for DH this year? I know Graves is listed on the team, but he won't likely do many, if any WC's. Bruni and co. are completely separate from what I understand.
 

Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,441
1,422
Italy/south Tyrol
So is Brosnan a one man show for DH this year? I know Graves is listed on the team, but he won't likely do many, if any WC's. Bruni and co. are completely separate from what I understand.
Seems like it. They listed Graves probably to get the trade team status, though.
They will get a VW bus, an umbrella as a tent and be good to go.
Hopefully Brosnan is fully back up to speed after his shoulder injury.
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,926
671
Hard to argue that Specialized is a soulless entity that doesn't give a shit about DH (and MTB in general) when they're currently sponsoring Brosnan, Loic and Loris, and Graves, with Brosnan and Graves on their factory team. Current DH World Champ, 3rd overall, and one of the top Enduro riders. In addition all the other smaller outfits, local teams, and smaller sponsorships they hand out. I know the internet is a great place to make sweeping generalizations, but at the end of the day, Specialized seems pretty driven to have a strong presence in the MTB world despite admitting that the amount of sales resulting was peanuts. If somebody is out of their budget range for what they're willing to spend in exchange for very little return, hard to be pissed off. Should somebody buying a road bike have to pay more to subsidize some mountain bike rider they've never heard of?
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,224
4,479
Hard to argue that Specialized is a soulless entity that doesn't give a shit about DH (and MTB in general) when they're currently sponsoring Brosnan, Loic and Loris, and Graves, with Brosnan and Graves on their factory team. Current DH World Champ, 3rd overall, and one of the top Enduro riders. In addition all the other smaller outfits, local teams, and smaller sponsorships they hand out. I know the internet is a great place to make sweeping generalizations, but at the end of the day, Specialized seems pretty driven to have a strong presence in the MTB world despite admitting that the amount of sales resulting was peanuts. If somebody is out of their budget range for what they're willing to spend in exchange for very little return, hard to be pissed off. Should somebody buying a road bike have to pay more to subsidize some mountain bike rider they've never heard of?
William42 sounds like a special-ed rider! :P

Seriously though, Specialized sells a hell of a lot of mountain bikes and have since they started making them. If that's what they consider peanuts, they're really out of touch with their audience. It's more likely that they've calculated the influence of sponsored race teams on their target market and realized in the case of gwin it isn't strong enough to warrant paying him his asking price.

"business"
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,612
5,930
in a single wide, cooking meth...
Needless to say, I know fuck-all about how big/any bike company advertising budgets are developed, but I've always seen investing in WC-DH teams similar to Honda investing in F1. It's more of a prestige/visibility effort with the potential benefit of developing and testing new technology that could trickle down to the "Accord" models. Likewise, I'd guess the new Acura NSX sales will be peanut dust compared to how many Accords and CRVs they sell, but its still pretty cool they've built a flagship, dick waving machine which I am sure they will reference in even the lowly Civic DX's "performance inspired lineage".

I'd also be curious to know if Spesh can make the case that their sponsored road race teams make a meaningful ROI for their road bike sales. Maybe they do, as I'd guess Lance certainly "enhanced" Treks' road sales for a time, but I got the sense that was more of an unicorn phenomenon given the whole saga of his return to cycling, America fuck yeah, etc...and of course we all know how that ended.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,001
24,549
media blackout
Seriously though, Specialized sells a hell of a lot of mountain bikes and have since they started making them. If that's what they consider peanuts, they're really out of touch with their audience.
hate to burst your bubble, but for every mountain bike spesh sells, they sell at least 10 road bikes. numbers don't even compare.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,612
5,930
in a single wide, cooking meth...
hate to burst your bubble, but for every mountain bike spesh sells, they sell at least 10 road bikes. numbers don't even compare.
I'm not denying your claim, but any idea what they consider "road bikes"? Do hybrid bikes and CX bikes fall into this category, or are they lumped into something else? I ask because while I do see a fair number of Allez's out there, I seem to see a lot more greenway cruisers and low end stuff that I personally would not consider a "road bike" per se. Just anecdotal observations of course, and very well may not be anywhere close to reality.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,001
24,549
media blackout
I'm not denying your claim, but any idea what they consider "road bikes"? Do hybrid bikes and CX bikes fall into this category, or are they lumped into something else? I ask because while I do see a fair number of Allez's out there, I seem to see a lot more greenway cruisers and low end stuff that I personally would not consider a "road bike" per se. Just anecdotal observations of course, and very well may not be anywhere close to reality.
hybrids don't count. not sure about CX.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,224
4,479
hate to burst your bubble, but for every mountain bike spesh sells, they sell at least 10 road bikes. numbers don't even compare.
That wasn't the point I was making. The number of mountain bikes they sell is a large number from an objective standpoint. The fact that they sell 10x more road bikes doesn't change that. We all know road is a big market.
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,926
671
I'm willing to bet the margins on road bikes are significantly better, and the cost of warranties and problems significantly lower. I don't ride a Specialized, I have no affiliation with the company, but fuck me it sure gets a lot of hatred from the internet for no good reason. They make a lot of bitching products. They're not the only company to do so. If they don't want to use road bike income to funnel into mountain bike sponsorships that nets them very little exposure of the bicycles that are their bread and butter, I don't think there is anything objectionable to it. Likewise, if YT can afford to pay Gwin what he wants, its a huge score for them since their only bikes cater to an audience that would know who Gwin is. Seems like both Gwin and Specialized understood that, and there were no hard feelings. Apparently the internet is having a tough time getting its head wrapped around that one though.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,224
4,479
I'm willing to bet the margins on road bikes are significantly better, and the cost of warranties and problems significantly lower. I don't ride a Specialized, I have no affiliation with the company, but fuck me it sure gets a lot of hatred from the internet for no good reason. They make a lot of bitching products. They're not the only company to do so. If they don't want to use road bike income to funnel into mountain bike sponsorships that nets them very little exposure of the bicycles that are their bread and butter, I don't think there is anything objectionable to it. Likewise, if YT can afford to pay Gwin what he wants, its a huge score for them since their only bikes cater to an audience that would know who Gwin is. Seems like both Gwin and Specialized understood that, and there were no hard feelings. Apparently the internet is having a tough time getting its head wrapped around that one though.
Some of it is just good old-fashioned ribbing (i.e. how many stays does the demo have?).


The actual dislike for the company and its policies is well documented, warranted and has nothing to do with Gwin... look it up.
 

wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
668
72
the land of cheap beer
hate to burst your bubble, but for every mountain bike spesh sells, they sell at least 10 road bikes. numbers don't even compare.
Not true. DH bikes for sure, but MTB bikes are pretty big numbers. There have been recent years where the $15,000 S-Works Epic has out sold the S-Works Tarmac. S still shells out lots of cash for the WC XC team.

Non-DH MTB bike numbers are the power log that clogs the shitter, while DH numbers are the skid left behind.

But the reality is that the wind tunnel was super expensive (among many other things), and Big Essey is hurtin' for cash. The only loyalty that company has is to the all mighty DOLLAR.

Very evident by the fact that they dissolved the Advanced R&D team in this round of job cuts. Lots of very smart and passionate folks have gone elsewhere.
"We built this cool wind tunnel, then fired all the guys that actually used it. Now it is just the worlds most expensive photo studio."
But I do like the Marketing Dept spin put on it....always good for a laugh :drag:
 
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StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,505
In hell. Welcome!
The number of mountain bikes they sell is a large number from an objective standpoint. The fact that they sell 10x more road bikes doesn't change that.
That's not how it works, is it? Businesses that invest significant sums of money in areas where their return on investment and market opportunity is seriously smaller than in their other areas either won't do well long term, or they can do it as an advertising exercise for their most profitable markets. I wonder if there is any correlation and brand recognition in effect between DH WC results and road bikes sale numbers (or low-end XC sales).
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,224
4,479
Very evident by the fact that they dissolved the Advanced R&D team in this round of job cuts. Lots of very smart and passionate folks have gone elsewhere.
"We built this cool wind tunnel, then fired all the guys that actually used it. Now it is just the worlds most expensive photo studio."
But I do like the Marketing Dept spin put on it....always good for a laugh :drag:
Wait, specialized had engineers?! I'm pretty we previously established that it was art, marketing and legal. Well, now that the engineers are gone, I suppose it's back to art, marketing and legal. :P :D
 
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dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,224
4,479
That's not how it works, is it? Businesses that invest significant sums of money in areas where their return on investment and market opportunity is seriously smaller than in their other areas either won't do well long term, or they can do it as an advertising exercise for their most profitable markets. I wonder if there is any correlation and brand recognition in effect between DH WC results and road bikes sale numbers (or low-end XC sales).
I hear you... there are many ways to structure a business. ALLS I'M SAYIN' is in MTBs specialized is selling a LOT of MTBs... this has nothing to do with DH, Gwin, their ability to pay or whatever... I don't even remember what brought me here.

carry on.