Can you imagine every pissed off mother of a dead soldier getting the chance to talk to him? He'd get his head torn off.stinkyboy said:
Yeah. Having to deal personally with the results of his actions rather than a number on a balance sheet, that might shake things up. It's easy to disregard casualties when they are numbers, it's a lot harder when they have faces, and when they are your friends ... it can just about push you over the edge.H8R said:Can you imagine every pissed off mother of a dead soldier getting the chance to talk to him? He'd get his head torn off.
(that'd be sweet!)
clancy98 said:very cereal box:
'I want to ask the president, why did he kill my son?'
Does someone get to say that to your wife and kid(s) when you die in the line of duty?manimal said:....oh wait, he VOLUNTEERED. get over it lady.
Depends.kidwoo said:Does someone get to say that to your wife and kid(s) when you die in the line of duty?
clancy98 said:see, told ya manzi, not his fault.
All very valid points of course. But telling a grieving spouse to suck it up just sounds so........I don't know......bushy with the camera turned off.H8R said:Depends.
Is his wife complaining to the chief of police about his death? If so, she may need to suck it up.
Was the chief indirectly at fault?
Is the chief ALWAYS on vacation at times like this?
So even if he is right, it is his tone that is offensive.....kidwoo said:All very valid points of course. But telling a grieving spouse to suck it up just sounds so........I don't know......bushy with the camera turned off.
RhinofromWA Bush didn't shoot him....so asking him why he killed her son is irresponsible.[/QUOTE said:Bush sent the kid to war for no fuqqing reason! Why can't he tell his mother/the country the truth?
WMD? No.
Because Saddam played a part in 9/11? No.
To install democracy? No.
Don't be a dumbass!
Tone mostly but I also agree with anyone who makes the case that our great leader is misusing our military. I think it's great that we're hearing about recruitment problems, concurrently cutting benefits for veterans and sending nat guard personnel who get nowhere near the benefits of the regular military. I'm down with H8Rs comment because he raises some valid points about our great monkey and his responsibilty to those who are dying right now due to his war profiteering BS. So although the woman's tone changes pretty dramatically between interviews, she has a right to hold bush responsible........since his reasons are questionable and wars lose lives, not just property/money/stock value etc. Yeah he signed up but his commander in chief failed him in his widows view. I happen to think she's right.RhinofromWA said:So even if he is right, it is his tone that is offensive.....
So other than aggreeing with him....just ask him to say it "nicer."
Bush didn't shoot him....so asking him why he killed her son is irresponsible. She is agnry at the wrong man/woman. Sadly she has reason to be angry.
Well if that isn't the pot calling the kettle......stinkyboy said:Bush sent the kid to war for no fuqqing reason! Why can't he tell his mother/the country the truth?
WMD? No.
Because Saddam played a part in 9/11? No.
To install democracy? No.
Don't be a dumbass!
Your views on the war and personal feelings slant your acceptance of how Pres Bush is attacked(verbally)kidwoo said:Tone mostly but I also agree with anyone who makes the case that our great leader is misusing our military. I think it's great that we're hearing about recruitment problems, concurrently cutting benefits for veterans and sending nat guard personnel who get nowhere near the benefits of the regular military. I'm down with H8Rs comment because he raises some valid points about our great monkey and his responsibilty to those who are dying right now due to his war profiteering BS. So although the woman's tone changes pretty dramatically between interviews, she has a right to hold bush responsible........since his reasons are questionable and wars lose lives, not just property/money/stock value etc. Yeah he signed up but his commander in chief failed him in his widows view. I happen to think she's right.
Explain.RhinofromWA said:Even though he is not responsible.....
The anaolgy doesn't work....manimal said:lets try an analogy:
say we're putting a DH race and it's a freshly cut course that no one has ridden yet. i've spent all my life dreaming about joining this DH cult and train daily for a race. Now, this race is different. The race promoter tells all the contestants that it is a no-practice course, meaning: no one will see the course before the race. He tells us that the course has a few dangerous spots that could lead to serious injury and only those who REALLY WANT TO DO IT and SIGN A CONTRACT/WAIVER will be allowed to race.
I go and dicuss this particular decision with my wife/family and we decide that it's really what I WANT TO DO and i UNDERSTAND THE RISK.
So here comes my race run......smooth sailing for a while, then a nasty rock garden. Then, just after a fast sweeper is a huge gap jump. I miss a pedal stroke and don't get the speed required to clear it. I case hard, go OTB and break my collarbone.
now....should my wife/family go and protest the promoter of the race because i busted my collarbone.....even after he told me it was a dangerous course?
(i know, kind of a weird analogy but it serves a purpose)
Which is why the army shows realistic recruiting commericials of what life in the military is like, right?manimal said:lets try an analogy:
say we're putting a DH race and it's a freshly cut course that no one has ridden yet. i've spent all my life dreaming about joining this DH cult and train daily for a race. Now, this race is different. The race promoter tells all the contestants that it is a no-practice course, meaning: no one will see the course before the race. He tells us that the course has a few dangerous spots that could lead to serious injury and only those who REALLY WANT TO DO IT and SIGN A CONTRACT/WAIVER will be allowed to race.
I go and dicuss this particular decision with my wife/family and we decide that it's really what I WANT TO DO and i UNDERSTAND THE RISK.
So here comes my race run......smooth sailing for a while, then a nasty rock garden. Then, just after a fast sweeper is a huge gap jump. I miss a pedal stroke and don't get the speed required to clear it. I case hard, go OTB and break my collarbone.
now....should my wife/family go and protest the promoter of the race because i busted my collarbone.....even after he told me it was a dangerous course?
(i know, kind of a weird analogy but it serves a purpose)
Yes....full pardon.RhinofromWA said:How about blaming the combatant who fired the shot? Apperantly he gets a full pardone. Good to see we are so objective.
Incidently I hold the shooter and the monkey in equally high regards.......worthy of the same respect I grant to the dogsh!t I scrape off of my shoes.RhinofromWA said:Your views on the war and personal feelings slant your acceptance of how Pres Bush is attacked(verbally)
Even though he is not responsible.....it is OK because of other reasons. Using an erroneous poster child as a mother and her fallen soldier son is OK as it hits who you want to where it hurts even if it is false.
Yes.Changleen said:Do you believe the American instigated invasion of Iraq was justified and neccassary, or do you believe Bush took us all to war based on lies and a personal agenda?
RhinofromWA said:How about blaming the combatant who fired the shot? Apperantly he gets a full pardone. Good to see we are so objective.
Hey, if he wanted compassion from this president, God should have made him a stem cell, not an actual human being...valve bouncer said:I love how the frother response to this is "suck it up you whiny bitch". Such compassion.
Tee hee. Love the fetus, hate the child, it's the republican way.Silver said:Hey, if he wanted compassion from this president, God should have made him a stem cell, not an actual human being...
I heard a new Republican slogan was going to be: "Life: Once it makes out of a vagina, we don't give a ****."
Ahahahahaa!manimal said:lets try an analogy:
say we're putting a DH race and it's a freshly cut course that no one has ridden yet. i've spent all my life dreaming about joining this DH cult and train daily for a race. Now, this race is different. The race promoter tells all the contestants that it is a no-practice course, meaning: no one will see the course before the race. He tells us that the course has a few dangerous spots that could lead to serious injury and only those who REALLY WANT TO DO IT and SIGN A CONTRACT/WAIVER will be allowed to race.
I go and dicuss this particular decision with my wife/family and we decide that it's really what I WANT TO DO and i UNDERSTAND THE RISK.
So here comes my race run......smooth sailing for a while, then a nasty rock garden. Then, just after a fast sweeper is a huge gap jump. I miss a pedal stroke and don't get the speed required to clear it. I case hard, go OTB and break my collarbone.
now....should my wife/family go and protest the promoter of the race because i busted my collarbone.....even after he told me it was a dangerous course?
(i know, kind of a weird analogy but it serves a purpose)
Send that in to T-Shirt hell. That's a winner for sure.kidwoo said:Tee hee. Love the fetus, hate the child, it's the republican way.
You selling t-shirts?
Then if that is what its about, then that has an easy answer.Reactor said:This thread is about why Bush won't see a woman who's son he commanded to invade another country and was killed in the process.
Bush, Sheehans share moments
By David Henson/Staff Writer
Since learning in April that their son, Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, had been killed in Iraq, life has been everything but normal for the Sheehan family of Vacaville.
Casey's parents, Cindy and Patrick, as well as their three children, have attended event after event honoring the soldier both locally and abroad, received countless letters of support and fielded questions from reporters across the country.
"That's the way our whole lives have been since April 4," Patrick said. "It's been surreal."
But none of that prepared the family for the message left on their answering machine last week, inviting them to have a face-to-face meeting with President George W. Bush at Fort Lewis near Seattle.
Surreal soon seemed like an understatement, as the Sheehans - one of 17 families who met Thursday with Bush - were whisked in a matter of days to the Army post and given the VIP treatment from the military. But as their meeting with the president approached, the family was faced with a dilemma as to what to say when faced with Casey's commander-in-chief.
"We haven't been happy with the way the war has been handled," Cindy said. "The president has changed his reasons for being over there every time a reason is proven false or an objective reached."
The 10 minutes of face time with the president could have given the family a chance to vent their frustrations or ask Bush some of the difficult questions they have been asking themselves, such as whether Casey's sacrifice would make the world a safer place.
But in the end, the family decided against such talk, deferring to how they believed Casey would have wanted them to act. In addition, Pat noted that Bush wasn't stumping for votes or trying to gain a political edge for the upcoming election.
"We have a lot of respect for the office of the president, and I have a new respect for him because he was sincere and he didn't have to take the time to meet with us," Pat said.
Sincerity was something Cindy had hoped to find in the meeting. Shortly after Casey died, Bush sent the family a form letter expressing his condolences, and Cindy said she felt it was an impersonal gesture.
"I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis," Cindy said after their meeting. "I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith."
The meeting didn't last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son's sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith.
While meeting with Bush, as well as Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, was an honor, it was almost a tangent benefit of the trip. The Sheehans said they enjoyed meeting the other families of fallen soldiers, sharing stories, contact information, grief and support.
For some, grief was still visceral and raw, while for others it had melted into the background of their lives, the pain as common as breathing. Cindy said she saw her reflection in the troubled eyes of each.
"It's hard to lose a son," she said. "But we (all) lost a son in the Iraqi war."
The trip had one benefit that none of the Sheehans expected.
For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.
For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.
"That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together," Cindy said.