How did you achieve some negative pressure? Just assembled when halfway compressed?
2010 Marzocchi 888 Evo tuning thread
- Thread starter Kanye West
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does it make a difference if I establish negative pressure on the damper- or spring side? Does it affect sag?
Yes, it will have a very big affect on sag. The local zocchi guy here told me it was a bad idea to use this method to get full travel of the fork, as it just indicates that you're on the wrong spring rate and it's a much better idea to get the right spring so you get the full tuneability and performance of the fork.
It will be hard to establish enough negative air pressure on the spring side as you will have to compress the spring a hell lot when installing the topcap...
It will be hard to establish enough negative air pressure on the spring side as you will have to compress the spring a hell lot when installing the topcap...
ah my bad did't take that into account. I don't have my fork yet but the experiences of other guys with the same weight indicate that I will have som trouble getting the right sag or full travel too. The problem is that it's almost impossible to get a ti spring in europe. How much do you weigh rtr?
It should have a noticeable but not huge effect on sag/spring rate; short of using a vacuum tool, my damper leg has min air - maybe 10-15lbs negative pressure at full extension. I wound up doing this because of top out issues with the XHeavy spring versus upping the oil weight or otherwise. If you dont get full travel, and VA, comp and preload are open, you should be hopping to a softer spring.
What I was experiencing is that I couldn't get full travel with the spring totally out of the fork. And no, It wasnt caused by hydraulic lock (too much oil) as I took oil out - no affect. By playing with negative pressuse was the only way to get full travel (with the spring out of the fork).
I've been looking around for information about spring rates but most of what I come around seems in contradiction, either suggesting the stock spring will be spot on, too soft or too hard for me...
I'm about to buy a 2012 888 evo ti, I'm around 160lbs ready to ride and race the pro category.
Will the stock spring be ok for me??
Thanks!
I'm about to buy a 2012 888 evo ti, I'm around 160lbs ready to ride and race the pro category.
Will the stock spring be ok for me??
Thanks!
You should be fine. I weigh about the same and the stock spring works good. When I first got the fork I thought I needed a stiffer spring because I was blowing through travel and getting nasty fork dive. But the marzocchi guys in fontucky helped me get squared away. Turns out that volume adjust knob on the left actually works pretty good in helping to firm up the mid stroke.
Probably since you're a little smaller than me. I'm a 170lb pro (without gear) and it's a little softer than I'd like.
There's one line in the dirt 100 Marzocchi 888 Evo Ti articles that I don't get: "Talking of tuning, it has to be said that these forks can benefit from a high quality oil change."
http://dirt.mpora.com/zfeatured-box/2012-dirt-100-marzocchi-888-rc3-evo-v2-titanium.html
Are they talking about the damping or lubricating oil? What will be improvend? Damping, Smoothness or both?
Zokes use the same oil for both, as it's open bath. I'm not sure what the oil is, but most fork manufacturers, especially of moto forks I know of use an oil that is designed to prevent gumming and corrosion from long storage formost and performance 2nd.
On another note, can anyone give me pics of the mid valve on the 2012 zoke? (evo2 cartridge)
On another note, can anyone give me pics of the mid valve on the 2012 zoke? (evo2 cartridge)
I'll back up what the last guy said, you should be alright with the standard spring. At 85kg I was too heavy for the standard spring so I went up to the firm spring and it's just right. based off that I would say the stock spring will be perfect for you.
So for better lubrication can I use motor oil for the spring leg and can add a teflos additive to the damping side!?
just got a new evo2. holy cow. i see what i've been missing and i'll never be running anything else!
thanks for the advices! the fork is on it's way, I went for the non ti version when I saw the price difference. can't wait to test it out!
I myself use a diesel oil for my spring side and some Maxima fork oil for the other side, I couldn't even tell you the viscosity, as I just put that in it and tuned.
I'm of the opinion teflon additives put into the oil post manufacture are a bit of a waste of time, as they are particulates that tend to come out of suspension over time and sit at the bottom of the fork.
I need to replace the spring side stantion. How do I remove the spring seat shaft? I have the snap ring off but it won't budge. Do I just use more force and pull it out the bottom of the stantion? Thanks!
The pictures shown are for the older forks. I'm talking about a 2010 and up, where only one stantion is the spring side.
The silver retainer shown here at 2:10.
I've taken the spring out and the snap ring that holds it into the stantion. What else is needed to take it out of the stantion?
The silver retainer shown here at 2:10.
I've taken the spring out and the snap ring that holds it into the stantion. What else is needed to take it out of the stantion?
Ok so I've just finished reading through the whole thread and nowhere can I see any reference to how to identify what spring rate I have. Everyone talks of N/mm rating and/or "soft", "medium" etc. but no one has said what colours correspond to which rating. I have a red/orange spring and want to know what rating it is, can anyone shed any light? I''m not sure whether it is the stock spring or not.
I am 167lb (76kg) without gear. I've been doing a lot of suspension testing recently and cannot achieve the required low-mid speed (and also mid travel) support for not blowing through the travel in hard cornering or when popping off lips and jumps. The low speed external compression adjustment does not seem to have as much affect as I would like, even after changing to 10wt oil this afternoon. Rebound adjustment has a huge range from pogo to unusably slow (at least for this spring weight), but this is not replicated with the compression adjustment. Is this normal?
I will play more with increasing the volume adjust this weekend, but I want to target the mid range and not the end stroke so much. I can set a 40 up to have huge amounts of low speed compression damping but just can't get the same on this 888 RC3 Evo (2011).
Any ideas? I don't see that re-shimming will help as it feels like it lacks support at speeds well below that at which the shims/high speed kicks in, i.e. just pushing on the fork in the workshop. I think increasing my spring rate will help for starters but it would be handy to actually know what spring I currently have.
Thanks.
I am 167lb (76kg) without gear. I've been doing a lot of suspension testing recently and cannot achieve the required low-mid speed (and also mid travel) support for not blowing through the travel in hard cornering or when popping off lips and jumps. The low speed external compression adjustment does not seem to have as much affect as I would like, even after changing to 10wt oil this afternoon. Rebound adjustment has a huge range from pogo to unusably slow (at least for this spring weight), but this is not replicated with the compression adjustment. Is this normal?
I will play more with increasing the volume adjust this weekend, but I want to target the mid range and not the end stroke so much. I can set a 40 up to have huge amounts of low speed compression damping but just can't get the same on this 888 RC3 Evo (2011).
Any ideas? I don't see that re-shimming will help as it feels like it lacks support at speeds well below that at which the shims/high speed kicks in, i.e. just pushing on the fork in the workshop. I think increasing my spring rate will help for starters but it would be handy to actually know what spring I currently have.
Thanks.
If the fork was new you probably have the 5.5nm standard spring and you also need a higher spring rate or did you play with oil levels already?
red is the stock 5.5N/mm but at your weight I would probably suggest the firmer 6.5N/mm spring. Where do you run the compression adjuster? Changing to heavier oil will just make the fork spike on high speed hits. I would probably take a shim out (the smallest one) so you could run the adjsuter closed without making the fork too harsh. The 2011 fork is never going to have super firm low speed damping but that set up will give the fork a lot more support
Ok, good to know what spring I have, thanks.
I have the compression all the way closed at the moment and it still blows through the travel too easily. As I said, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference between fully open and fully closed. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm fairly new to shimming and tuning, I'm just coming from an engineering perspective) but surely it'll only spike if my shim stack does not open soon enough (i.e. its too stiff) or does not open far enough to let sufficient oil through when experience large high speed hits. Now that I have increased the oil weight, the shim stack should open at a lower shaft speed as the pressure is higher for a given shaft speed due to higher oil viscosity. If it opens at a lower shaft speed, I am actually reducing the chance of spiking, unless the shim stack does not open wide enough for the thicker oil.
I have not played with oil heights as this will mainly increase the progressivity and not mid travel support. I will try it with the volume adjust though as it may help a bit. I don't want to make the end stroke too progressive.
I have the compression all the way closed at the moment and it still blows through the travel too easily. As I said, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference between fully open and fully closed. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm fairly new to shimming and tuning, I'm just coming from an engineering perspective) but surely it'll only spike if my shim stack does not open soon enough (i.e. its too stiff) or does not open far enough to let sufficient oil through when experience large high speed hits. Now that I have increased the oil weight, the shim stack should open at a lower shaft speed as the pressure is higher for a given shaft speed due to higher oil viscosity. If it opens at a lower shaft speed, I am actually reducing the chance of spiking, unless the shim stack does not open wide enough for the thicker oil.
I have not played with oil heights as this will mainly increase the progressivity and not mid travel support. I will try it with the volume adjust though as it may help a bit. I don't want to make the end stroke too progressive.
Does anyone have the full range of colours for each rating for 2011-12 springs?
my ti spring is raw? are yours coated?
I would play with oil levels. It might effect more then you think. Also mess around with your shim stack, low speed compression.
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99% of your problem is spring rate, so I would go to the harder spring before worrying about anything else.
You are right the stack will open at a lower shaft speed, but there will be more force being applied by the stack (it is basically a spring so it will open wider for the heavier oil which increases the force) which will carry on accross the whole range of shaft speeds and cause the fork to be harsh. As you say, the shim stack doesn't do much until the fork is moving fast enough and this is why the 2012 forks have the "V2" piston to increase damping at low speeds.
Also check no oil has blown past the progression piston
As for spring colours, in general they will be totally coloured or just a small stripe at one end
Stock spring - Red for steel, light blue for Ti
Firm- green for steel, dark blue for Ti
X-Heavy - grey for Ti, can't remember steel
didnt the V2 just add some actual mid-stroke support?
Folks,
Looking to swap out my Boxxer WC. I've found a great deal on a 2011 Evo Ti, but a few things concern me. I want to run the new upper crown so I can run any stem I chose (more money), and I also gather from reading this entire thread I will need a firm ti spring (another what, $250 or $300?) So the smoking deal I found might not be that great in the end.
I weight about 215 lbs geared up, in regards to spring weight.
So it seems I might be just better off holding off and looking for a deal on a 2012 Ti? Bobby at Marz told me the 2012 comes with both a medium ti spring and firm steel.
Be nice if you could order one with a firm ti, and with black lowers.
Thanks for the help.
Looking to swap out my Boxxer WC. I've found a great deal on a 2011 Evo Ti, but a few things concern me. I want to run the new upper crown so I can run any stem I chose (more money), and I also gather from reading this entire thread I will need a firm ti spring (another what, $250 or $300?) So the smoking deal I found might not be that great in the end.
I weight about 215 lbs geared up, in regards to spring weight.
So it seems I might be just better off holding off and looking for a deal on a 2012 Ti? Bobby at Marz told me the 2012 comes with both a medium ti spring and firm steel.
Be nice if you could order one with a firm ti, and with black lowers.
Thanks for the help.
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Are the springs supposed to have the firm plastic wrap around them in the fork legs?
they rattle, use either the stock plastic wrap or some shrink wrap
Just a quick question for all you 888 gurus. I just picked up a 2012 888 evo ti v2 and love it. The only problem is I can not get the top 45% of the travel to be stiff enough. The second half of the fork feels great (I am using full travel but not blowing through it.)
I weigh 175 and am running the stock ti spring with 10 clicks of preload, 15clicks rebound and 6clicks compression. I also have 6 clicks on the va chamber.
Any advice is appreciated.
I weigh 175 and am running the stock ti spring with 10 clicks of preload, 15clicks rebound and 6clicks compression. I also have 6 clicks on the va chamber.
Any advice is appreciated.
which set of lowers will help me land 3's?
PS - oh yeah, thats a 7,7nm spring right there; and I aint not sharin it neither!