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Nagaredama

Turbo Monkey
Nov 15, 2004
1,596
2
Manhattan Beach, CA USA
My 2011 large white/red Demo 8 will be here Tuesday...build pics on Thursday.

Funny part is I just bought a 2011 Glory frame since I never thought the Demo would show up. Glory is 98% built but will get torn down this weekend in preparation for the Demo.
 

BOOMSLANG

Chimp
Apr 6, 2009
95
0
Morgan Hill
@ BOOMSLANG

I ordered a 2011 demo in hopes of being able to run the vivid air at some point soon, but i just got off the phone with specialized and they said that they stopped working on making that an option.

I know you said earlier that the mounts for the vivid air would be available soon is this still true?
I ran the fox rc4 on my 2010 demo and then switched it to the vivid air towards the end of the season and i really don't want to ride the Rc4 again.
It's still going to be an option as far as I know. I'll look into it when I get back. On vaca this week. Went snow-biking in the Sierras.

JC
 

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
491
24
A stock vivid air wont fit, tried it yesterday, when you turn the can side and the eyelet a quarter turn the air valve gets in the way. So you have to some how turn only the eyelet and not the can. It seems a vivid fits the stock yoke in the high setting but its a tight squeze.
 

zdubyadubya

Turbo Monkey
Apr 13, 2008
1,273
96
Ellicott City, MD
it's too bad i don't have a 3D laser scanner and CNC machine, bet you could make a custom strut easily
I will go even further and say that I am pretty sure if you took the pictures from the pinkbike article, the vivid air shock, and the stock yoke to any machinist worth his salt he would be able to whip up something for fairly cheap.
 

jnooth

Monkey
Sep 19, 2008
384
1
Vermont Country
A stock vivid air wont fit, tried it yesterday, when you turn the can side and the eyelet a quarter turn the air valve gets in the way. So you have to some how turn only the eyelet and not the can. It seems a vivid fits the stock yoke in the high setting but its a tight squeze.
wow, I didn't think of that. the one that keene (i think it was keene) was riding must have been custom. i wonder if this is something sram would do for you if you asked.

anybody have any experience with spinning the eyelet but not the can?
 

JCL

Monkey
Aug 31, 2008
696
0
I don't see the point in running an air shock on a bike with a rate thats been designed around a coilover?
 

jnooth

Monkey
Sep 19, 2008
384
1
Vermont Country
I don't see the point in running an air shock on a bike with a rate thats been designed around a coilover?
You may not. But do you have any experiance with it? I have used the vivid air on my 2010 demo and it is far superior to the fox. Weight is not at all my reasoning for choosing the air over coil
 

ustemuf

Monkey
Apr 8, 2010
198
15
Bay Area
wow, I didn't think of that. the one that keene (i think it was keene) was riding must have been custom. i wonder if this is something sram would do for you if you asked.

anybody have any experience with spinning the eyelet but not the can?

if you look closely in the video hes actually riding a vivid coil in the footage.
 

JCL

Monkey
Aug 31, 2008
696
0
You may not. But do you have any experiance with it? I have used the vivid air on my 2010 demo and it is far superior to the fox. Weight is not at all my reasoning for choosing the air over coil
I haven't riddin it but have heard from people who have that it's 'okay'. Interesting that none of the Blackbox guys including Brendan or Sam choose to run the air shock.
 

jnooth

Monkey
Sep 19, 2008
384
1
Vermont Country
I haven't riddin it but have heard from people who have that it's 'okay'. Interesting that none of the Blackbox guys including Brendan or Sam choose to run the air shock.
Well opinions are opinions but with over five months on it I think it is much more then ok

And the gt guys ran it for about half the races. I think both mik and mark are blackbox

But really, I just want to know it it will work, not if the Internet is ok with me riding an air shock
 

KavuRider

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2006
2,565
4
CT
Local dude is running the Vivid Air on his Demo. Its a 2010 I believe. He loves it. Says its far superior to the Vivid Coil.
 

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
491
24
Originally Posted by EVIL JN
A stock vivid air wont fit, tried it yesterday, when you turn the can side and the eyelet a quarter turn the air valve gets in the way. So you have to some how turn only the eyelet and not the can. It seems a vivid fits the stock yoke in the high setting but its a tight squeze.
jnooth wow, I didn't think of that. the one that keene (i think it was keene) was riding must have been custom. i wonder if this is something sram would do for you if you asked.

anybody have any experience with spinning the eyelet but not the can?
Looking at cut aways of the air version it looks as if you could just turn the can while clamping down the eyelets, the metal piece with the small holes seems to be only a pressfit. So its three seperate pieces which can be turned independetly. Personally i am going to ask both RS and TF tuned and see what they say on how to do it.

It was keene that was in quite a big article and video. A bit of shock when i tried to install it when i had seen pictures of it mounted, seems typical that small but o so important details gets lost some where from testing to marketing. Starting to get quite annoyed with this frame, if it didnt ride so damn well and specialized didnt have a great CS it would be in the classifieds asap. Build quality is pretty poor and some things like the cable routing is quite stupidly done.
 
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illnotsick

Monkey
Jun 3, 2009
257
0
I don't know if this would help, I haven't seen one on a bike so I don't know where the clearance issue is. But the SRAM parts doc shows that you can flip the canister so the air valve points the other way.
 

Attachments

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
491
24
Found this on the service section on the sram site. Seems you can just turn the can to desired postion and even flip it backwards. But looking through the tech manual it have to be disasembled to change the position and go figures that requires special tools. This frame just keeps causing headaches.

 
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BOOMSLANG

Chimp
Apr 6, 2009
95
0
Morgan Hill
Ride Monkeys,

It saddens me to tell you that the Vivid Air is officially NOT compatible with the new Demo.

Long story short, the stock Vivid Air does not have the adjustability in the air can orientation that we originally thought it did.

Let the flaming begin.

Jason C
 

BOOMSLANG

Chimp
Apr 6, 2009
95
0
Morgan Hill
... some things like the cable routing is quite stupidly done.
Evil JN - We'd love to get your perspective on the cable routing. This is one of the toughest details to get right and make everyone happy.

How would you prefer to see it? What do you think works better?

Thanks for taking the time to provide honest feedback.

Boomslang
 

steelforeel

Chimp
Dec 2, 2009
23
1
I think the cable routing is pretty good. Theres one thing that I've noticed though. The cables will rub your rear tire when the suspension compresses. This is easily fixed with some cable ties so no big deal.
 

BOOMSLANG

Chimp
Apr 6, 2009
95
0
Morgan Hill
I think the cable routing is pretty good. Theres one thing that I've noticed though. The cables will rub your rear tire when the suspension compresses. This is easily fixed with some cable ties so no big deal.
There should be a little straddle clippy thing that snaps accross the cables underneath the shock link area. This is designed to keep the cables out of your tire. Is this missing on your rig perhaps?

Jason C
 

jnooth

Monkey
Sep 19, 2008
384
1
Vermont Country
well very very disappointed to say the least.

but thank for looking further into it for me. Maybe this is something you guys can look into getting sorted before 2012. I know a bunch of us were really looking forward to using the vivid air. In my case continue using the vivid air. It just sucks being limited to one maybe two shocks.

Boomslang thanks again for helping out!

Jordan
 

BOOMSLANG

Chimp
Apr 6, 2009
95
0
Morgan Hill
well very very disappointed to say the least.

but thank for looking further into it for me. Maybe this is something you guys can look into getting sorted before 2012. I know a bunch of us were really looking forward to using the vivid air. In my case continue using the vivid air. It just sucks being limited to one maybe two shocks.

Boomslang thanks again for helping out!

Jordan
Rock Shox can make it happen if they see enough requests for it.

JC
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
Rock Shox can make it happen if they see enough requests for it.

JC
dont get me wrong, i have nothing against spesh, but isnt making a link for a specialized frame, specialized's job, not rockshox. I also dont think that they should change their shock just to fit a single frame. That is just my opinion though, so take that for what it is. I still think that you guys should make a "universal" yoke that may alter the geo a tiny bit (maybe not favorable) bit with the extra Xmm in all directions, can get every shock to fit it. I would take a 10mm higher BB to get a ______ on there
 

JCL

Monkey
Aug 31, 2008
696
0
Ride Monkeys,

It saddens me to tell you that the Vivid Air is officially NOT compatible with the new Demo.
Oh well not to worry. I'm sure people will recover from the disappointment. No doubt the bike works sufficiently with a coil shock...

I'd be interested to see how people think the cable routing can be improved? Apart from going internal I don't see how it could be any different.
 

wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
668
72
the land of cheap beer
It appears as if the kind folks at Cane Creek can and will put a 2011 Demo compatible eyelet on their double barrel.
CCDB on Demo (go down to the pic of the green farme)

So that makes Fox, RS coil (someday), and CCBD.

Hopefully RS will follow suit with the Vivid Air. Weird how the bigger companies are the slowest sometimes.
 

BOOMSLANG

Chimp
Apr 6, 2009
95
0
Morgan Hill
It appears as if the kind folks at Cane Creek can and will put a 2011 Demo compatible eyelet on their double barrel.
CCDB on Demo (go down to the pic of the green farme)
Cane Creek has been a very active partner, and it would not suprise me to see a Demo specific shock from them ;)

Boomslang

Side Note - I am not a fan of putting a "stock" shock on any of our bikes. You really need to match the tune to the frame. The best scenario industry-wide is to offer bike specific shocks, as opposed to generic shocks that only work generically for most frame designs.
 
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demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
i dont think he's talking about the yoke for the end of the shock.
Dont get me wrong, idc how it happens, but isnt making the shock manufacturer comform to the individual frame kinda stupid? (after all, spesh started it) Do we need a shock for every frame, or a frame for every shock. IDK, i really dont, but i would think that it should be specialized's "problem" and not cane creek, imagine the burden (and problems) that would ensue if every manufacturer came up with a fancy yoke for 2012. Sure its spesh this year, and maybe it wont happen again, but now it seems that it "can" Id like to see the shock companies make spesh produce a new yoke. Why does there need to be multiple types of 1 shock?

/rant
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
It appears as if the kind folks at Cane Creek can and will put a 2011 Demo compatible eyelet on their double barrel.
CCDB on Demo (go down to the pic of the green farme)

So that makes Fox, RS coil (someday), and CCBD.

Hopefully RS will follow suit with the Vivid Air. Weird how the bigger companies are the slowest sometimes.
I'm having dinner with the CC guys tonight, I'll ask!
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
Dont get me wrong, idc how it happens, but isnt making the shock manufacturer comform to the individual frame kinda stupid? (after all, spesh started it) Do we need a shock for every frame, or a frame for every shock. IDK, i really dont, but i would think that it should be specialized's "problem" and not cane creek, imagine the burden (and problems) that would ensue if every manufacturer came up with a fancy yoke for 2012. Sure its spesh this year, and maybe it wont happen again, but now it seems that it "can" Id like to see the shock companies make spesh produce a new yoke. Why does there need to be multiple types of 1 shock?

/rant
its a conspiracy maaaaaaaan
 

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
491
24
BOOMSLANG: First off i have to say that i very much appreciate that you are on here and give the community a chance to directly interact with the company. Dont take my rants personally its just that these kind of things keep happening with most products in the industry and when you pay this kind of money there shouldnt be this many issues with them. Ex on my I9 hub the sunday rear axle wouldnt go through so i had to file down a small ridge that had been left on the inside and this was a brand new hub straight from the box.

It is not so much where the cable goes but how it it attached that is the biggest issue. The plastic parts on the down tube dont fit normal goodridge hoses and the top one is in a quite hard to reach place. So why not go with the same as the rest of the frame (those small bridge kind of tabs), its not like it would add any significant ammount of weight and then route them more on side of the downtube for easy access.

I guess mabye i have had a bit tougher time with my frame then other since it came with a severly misaligned rear triangel straight out of the box. Which was put toghter with brute force, i couldnt even rotate the shock yoke. So i had to warrant it even before i got to build it up. I got he replacement part fast and on time so specialized definetly disurves some credit in that area especialy since it was in the end of dec. The new part still did require some force applied to get everything to bolt up.

On top of this, i couldnt mount any of my wheels with out grinding down the dropout so it became almost flat, the hubs are I9 and Burgtec. To even get out the rear axle in the first place i had to use a fair ammount of force and then file out the driveside dropout a bit to even get the axle to slide backthrough the dropout.

And to top it of i have to take a part a brand new shock to even be able to fit it into the frame and also grind it down a little to fit the yoke. So it has been kind of a hard time getting the bike rideable.

But in terms of how it rides it is more than i hoped for so in the end it is all worth it and it always brings a smile when i am shredding some turns on it.
 

Hellpoker

Chimp
Nov 16, 2008
23
0
Is the RC4 that comes with the frame "tuned" to the frame ? If not, is there any place that does offer that service.
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,752
442
MA
BOOMSLANG: First off i have to say that i very much appreciate that you are on here and give the community a chance to directly interact with the company. Dont take my rants personally its just that these kind of things keep happening with most products in the industry and when you pay this kind of money there shouldnt be this many issues with them. Ex on my I9 hub the sunday rear axle wouldnt go through so i had to file down a small ridge that had been left on the inside and this was a brand new hub straight from the box.

It is not so much where the cable goes but how it it attached that is the biggest issue. The plastic parts on the down tube dont fit normal goodridge hoses and the top one is in a quite hard to reach place. So why not go with the same as the rest of the frame (those small bridge kind of tabs), its not like it would add any significant ammount of weight and then route them more on side of the downtube for easy access.

I guess mabye i have had a bit tougher time with my frame then other since it came with a severly misaligned rear triangel straight out of the box. Which was put toghter with brute force, i couldnt even rotate the shock yoke. So i had to warrant it even before i got to build it up. I got he replacement part fast and on time so specialized definetly disurves some credit in that area especialy since it was in the end of dec. The new part still did require some force applied to get everything to bolt up.

On top of this, i couldnt mount any of my wheels with out grinding down the dropout so it became almost flat, the hubs are I9 and Burgtec. To even get out the rear axle in the first place i had to use a fair ammount of force and then file out the driveside dropout a bit to even get the axle to slide backthrough the dropout.

And to top it of i have to take a part a brand new shock to even be able to fit it into the frame and also grind it down a little to fit the yoke. So it has been kind of a hard time getting the bike rideable.

But in terms of how it rides it is more than i hoped for so in the end it is all worth it and it always brings a smile when i am shredding some turns on it.
From what I've read on Pinkbike :p, Specialized will be offering replacement seat-stays sometime this summer. Some hubs due to steps about the axle interface have interference problems. Kind of a bummer that it was an oversight and that some folks may have to go all late 1990's with a dremel to resolve the issue, but JC noted in the Pinkbike thread to just get in touch with your Spec dealer this summer if you have this issue and they'll get you the revised seat-stay as soon as it becomes available.
 

zdubyadubya

Turbo Monkey
Apr 13, 2008
1,273
96
Ellicott City, MD
Is the RC4 that comes with the frame "tuned" to the frame ? If not, is there any place that does offer that service.
From what I understand (and I may be wrong, and I am sure that if I am, there will be a million people to correct me), but yes. The RC4 is "tuned" for the leverage curve of the demo. However, as we all know you still have to make a shock "general" enough that it will accommodate all types of riders, so it isn't ideal. And as well all know, PUSH makes everything moar better! That is why I am not sure what everyone's problem is.... unless you want the adjustability of a CCDB (which is turns out DOES work on this bike), just get your RC4 custom tuned to your riding style/body weight/etc. from PUSH.
 

Hellpoker

Chimp
Nov 16, 2008
23
0
From what I understand (and I may be wrong, and I am sure that if I am, there will be a million people to correct me), but yes. The RC4 is "tuned" for the leverage curve of the demo. However, as we all know you still have to make a shock "general" enough that it will accommodate all types of riders, so it isn't ideal. And as well all know, PUSH makes everything moar better! That is why I am not sure what everyone's problem is.... unless you want the adjustability of a CCDB (which is turns out DOES work on this bike), just get your RC4 custom tuned to your riding style/body weight/etc. from PUSH.
I've checked PUSH website, and i dont see any products / services that offer RC4 tuning. Maybe i should send them an email.
 

BOOMSLANG

Chimp
Apr 6, 2009
95
0
Morgan Hill
It is not so much where the cable goes but how it it attached that is the biggest issue. The plastic parts on the down tube dont fit normal goodridge hoses and the top one is in a quite hard to reach place. So why not go with the same as the rest of the frame (those small bridge kind of tabs), its not like it would add any significant ammount of weight and then route them more on side of the downtube for easy access.

I guess mabye i have had a bit tougher time with my frame then other since it came with a severly misaligned rear triangel straight out of the box. Which was put toghter with brute force, i couldnt even rotate the shock yoke. So i had to warrant it even before i got to build it up. I got he replacement part fast and on time so specialized definetly disurves some credit in that area especialy since it was in the end of dec. The new part still did require some force applied to get everything to bolt up.

On top of this, i couldnt mount any of my wheels with out grinding down the dropout so it became almost flat, the hubs are I9 and Burgtec. To even get out the rear axle in the first place i had to use a fair ammount of force and then file out the driveside dropout a bit to even get the axle to slide backthrough the dropout.

And to top it of i have to take a part a brand new shock to even be able to fit it into the frame and also grind it down a little to fit the yoke. So it has been kind of a hard time getting the bike rideable.

But in terms of how it rides it is more than i hoped for so in the end it is all worth it and it always brings a smile when i am shredding some turns on it.
I agree, no one should have these kinds of issues with any expensive new product. We will do everything we can to make it right. I am happy to hear that the ride quality is making up for it at least.

Everything we do is for a reason. Not everyone is going to agree with the reasons though.

As far as the cable guides, we hate zip ties. However, this means our cable holders really only work with stock 4mm shifter cables and 5mm brake hose.

As far as a unique shock yoke - we like bearings better than DU bushings. And we are able to provide better shock actuation and position with the pivot placement that a yoke provides. However, this means there may (or should I say IS) some shock compatibility limitations.

Our main goal is to provide a fast bike that can win races. Hopefully we don't create too many haters along the way.

Boomslang
 

ustemuf

Monkey
Apr 8, 2010
198
15
Bay Area
.... wait for the black one i have on pre-order and hope i get it. .. or get a red/white one in stock now? :o

and no i wont tell you where its in stock, not til i decide at least :p
 

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
Our main goal is to provide a fast bike that can win races. Hopefully we don't create too many haters along the way.

Boomslang
Nevermind the haters, and keep up the good work progressing forward with the designs. There are a lot of things on the new Demo that just make more sense, such as ditching DU bushings, getting rid of BB threads, etc.