Anyone have ride time on the new Spitfire? Im eyeing this frame for trail/AM use. Good geo and 650b compatibility. But i have also heard that banshee cs is poor.
Your thoughts?
Your thoughts?
Last edited:
banshee Spitfire and CS ponderings
- Thread starter chillindrdude
- Start date
Keep in mind that you almost always hear about CS only when it is poor, the internet is good at exploiting the negatives of pretty much everything. From what I've read a bulk of the past issues have to do with the self-destructing bushings on some models, a problem you aren't likely to encounter with the sealed bearing system on the new bikes.
Keith, the designer for whom the KS link is named, is pretty active in the mtbr/banshee bikes forum as well for what it's worth.
This x100.
My buddy Subopitmus Prime just built a new one up, and it looks spectacular, plus it passes the parking lot test with flying colors. I had a Mk1 Spitty and aside from the well documented bushing issues, it was a superb trail/AM bike IMO. Aggressive geo, dropper post ready, chain guide tabs, could run a 160 fork, tapered HT, and just plain worked in a variety of applications - all of which was pretty unusual when it was introduced. But again, the bushing issue really became problematic, and even though Keith & Jon certainly tried to work out a temporary fix (ceramic coated axels & thin washers), it never really addressed the issue of the actual frames wearing. To their credit, they did offer a significant discount on a new frame for customers who had their bikes less than 2 years I think, and my bud was able to take advantage of that deal. Their North American distributor (Trident) has been a little difficult to deal with, but they did finally ship the frame, and like I said, it looks great and I have to believe its improved in practically every way over the first version (and yes, they now have bearings rather than bushings). The only knock on it now is the 142 mm drop outs don't have recesses to capture the axel (and there is another long thread on MTBR about this), but I understand they are working to address this as well.
Overall I think their CS is pretty good for a company that size, and lets face it, you could certainly do worse in this regard. If I wasn't so happy with my Blur LTc, I would definitely consider one, and hopefully Suboptimus will be able to give a full ride report soon enough.
Overall I think their CS is pretty good for a company that size, and lets face it, you could certainly do worse in this regard. If I wasn't so happy with my Blur LTc, I would definitely consider one, and hopefully Suboptimus will be able to give a full ride report soon enough.
Last edited:
I'd think any CS issues stemmed from the bushing issue along with some poor past distributors. Banshee the company themselves is nothing but great guys.
And their new bikes are amazing IMO. I am probably biased though as I've got a Legend and proto Prime. Still, when you look at their geo, suspension design, durability (on bearing bikes), stiffness, etc. I reckon they are underrated.
And their new bikes are amazing IMO. I am probably biased though as I've got a Legend and proto Prime. Still, when you look at their geo, suspension design, durability (on bearing bikes), stiffness, etc. I reckon they are underrated.
I got a wildcard from larock brand new. (the one in the video spinning on the table)https://vimeo.com/8627809 First run out it snapped in half. I got denied warranty since although he works for them and it was brand new-he isnt a dealer. After horrible CS and a few weeks of hearing nothing, I eventually had to have it Overnighted from Trident sports to get it in time for the race. That was almost a month later...
Raced 4 slalom races on it after that, Took it to plattekill in september and the same link snapped in half again, After being ****ed around, I eventually was able to get a link (since i am the original owner of the link-thank god) It came in 5 weeks later in the wrong color. I just shut up and sold the bike. Never again...
*One of my friends did prototype testing on their DH bike,(mk1?) Snapped a swingarm on that too-they told him since it was a prototype that it had no warranty-guess who got ****ed on that one.
Lastly was a Banshee sponsored regional team by me. (who will go un-named) They had 6? team bikes, 2 of them "folded" near the Top tube. Both were denied warranty, but offered a good deal on new frames. Well you can guess who isn't riding for banshee this year
Last kid i know has a hardtail, been really hurtin it good, but its held up. It seems that they are really hit and miss if i were to guess. I wouldnt buy a bike from them again, but at the same time, if they took care of their QC and CS, they could be a real good company-if some of their stuff didnt say banshee on it, I might even own it
Raced 4 slalom races on it after that, Took it to plattekill in september and the same link snapped in half again, After being ****ed around, I eventually was able to get a link (since i am the original owner of the link-thank god) It came in 5 weeks later in the wrong color. I just shut up and sold the bike. Never again...
*One of my friends did prototype testing on their DH bike,(mk1?) Snapped a swingarm on that too-they told him since it was a prototype that it had no warranty-guess who got ****ed on that one.
Lastly was a Banshee sponsored regional team by me. (who will go un-named) They had 6? team bikes, 2 of them "folded" near the Top tube. Both were denied warranty, but offered a good deal on new frames. Well you can guess who isn't riding for banshee this year
Last kid i know has a hardtail, been really hurtin it good, but its held up. It seems that they are really hit and miss if i were to guess. I wouldnt buy a bike from them again, but at the same time, if they took care of their QC and CS, they could be a real good company-if some of their stuff didnt say banshee on it, I might even own it
Last edited:
I run Rune v2 and love this!! I think spitfire will be good for you. The frame feels superstiff, almost giving feeling of hardtail 
With right suspension it works like a dream (in my case it is Bos, enduro air susp.).
Re CS, I dont worry about it, Keith is nice on forum there Mtbr,
With right suspension it works like a dream (in my case it is Bos, enduro air susp.). Re CS, I dont worry about it, Keith is nice on forum there Mtbr,
from what i've heard, this decision had nothing to do with any issues banshee, their bikes, or their qc.
Maybe not, I couldn't tell ya.(i heard differently-but it was from one of the guys that had one fold) But who gets offered a cheap price on a new frame when 1/3rd of them are folding. A rider that is supposed to be growing your brand-ironically
listen hamburgler don't question my e-heresy
You are confused, The Hamburglar was ejected from Mtn Creek end of 2011, this gentleman is commonly referred to as 'Burger' or possibly Grimace....
I have a V1 Spitfire and a new V2 frame will be here next week. My experience is pretty much the same as what jackalope has already said. V1 frames rode great, but had bushing wear issues. Banshee offered a very fair deal to anyone with an affected Spitfire or Rune frame, even out of the 2 year warranty period, to upgrade for a price that is probably close to cost. From what I have read about the new V2 model, it should address all of the minor issues about the V1 frame, and be a pretty awesome bike. I am going to set mine up 26" for now, but switch to 650b in a few months once I decide on a fork and wheelset.
I also have a Legend, no issues there. I have emailed Keith before and he is usually quick to reply. I would say CS is fairly good, but there is only like 3 guys that work at Banshee and they are very busy so sometimes they can be slow to take care of things. The distributor Trident handled the upgrade deal, and they were bad about replying to emails but always answered the phone when I called them.
I also have a Legend, no issues there. I have emailed Keith before and he is usually quick to reply. I would say CS is fairly good, but there is only like 3 guys that work at Banshee and they are very busy so sometimes they can be slow to take care of things. The distributor Trident handled the upgrade deal, and they were bad about replying to emails but always answered the phone when I called them.
Notice that theres no bottle cage mounts...darn.
I had a long-running frame issue on a slightly older model but kept being told it wasn't a problem... until it went in for an overhaul and I was informed that it was dead. I then had a terrible experience with the distributor trying to charge me for crash replacement and then refusing to speak with me.
Well after that (over a year later), I finally got a replacement frame (once Banshee got involved and gave the distributor a kick in the butt)... replacement frame was a different model though that didn't really fit the riding that I do, so the bike just sits around.
Ironically, I used to be a huge supporter of Banshee (aka fan-boy) and was very vocal about it. Now, I won't buy another Banshee or even anything Manitou until the distributor for those changes. That said, I love my Scream and I'm still thrashing my Chaparral and Scirocco.
Well after that (over a year later), I finally got a replacement frame (once Banshee got involved and gave the distributor a kick in the butt)... replacement frame was a different model though that didn't really fit the riding that I do, so the bike just sits around.
Ironically, I used to be a huge supporter of Banshee (aka fan-boy) and was very vocal about it. Now, I won't buy another Banshee or even anything Manitou until the distributor for those changes. That said, I love my Scream and I'm still thrashing my Chaparral and Scirocco.
Demoed a V2 Spitfire a few weeks ago. Even with a soft shock tune for me, I was SUPER impressed with the bike overall. Cornered awesome, stiff, ect. If I didn't like my Trance so much, I'd be on one...
I'd agree with what other people in here have said. Banshee themselves aren't bad at customer service, Trident though, holy crap what a headache.
I swear if I didn't follow up on emails and calls that I made weeks ago, I would never hear from them again.
My Spitfire is pooched. I want the new frame so bad, but I find it hard to drop $1000 on a replacement frame for one that was designed wrong.
Amazing bike though...
I swear if I didn't follow up on emails and calls that I made weeks ago, I would never hear from them again.
My Spitfire is pooched. I want the new frame so bad, but I find it hard to drop $1000 on a replacement frame for one that was designed wrong.
Amazing bike though...
That's surely easier than dropping $1800-2000 on a different frame though?
That is true. Though through no fault of my own, I shouldn't even need a new frame. Perhaps I am a little bit more sour than other people, because being a student there is no way that I can afford a new one. And its not like user error or neglect was the cause of the damage.
Either way, I'd love to try out the new one. It'll be awesome if its anything like the old Spitfire.
Enough dribble dabble, more bikez. From teh mtbrz:
Either way, I'd love to try out the new one. It'll be awesome if its anything like the old Spitfire.
Enough dribble dabble, more bikez. From teh mtbrz:
Basically my exact scenario. My frame was pooched from either design error, QC issues, or the bearing installation at the factory was effed. Our lovely canadian distributor wanted nothing to do with it and the best I could get was an insulting crash replacement offer... as a fellow student who had paid good money for a fancy frame, that wasn't an acceptable offer. You deserve a frame that works as advertised and are legally entitled to that. Have you tried bringing it up with Banshee?
I've wanted a Legend since the first hints about that project and the new bikes have a lot of potential... but damn, I don't want to go near them.
(Sorry in advance, I'm a bit *passionate* about this issue.)
Frankyl, that's BS. Companies seem to get away with this in the bike industry, but they owe him a fully functioning frame (for zero additional $) that can actually handle the biking that it was designed for. They don't just owe him this out of good conscience, but legally as well. The product doesn't do what it could be expected to by any reasonable person and thus doesn't fulfill the company's end of the contract.
Sounds like pretty much every DH bike ever made between 1995-2002, and about 50% through about 2008. I kid, I kid. . . (sort of).
I don't know much of anything about the previous bikes besides what's on the internet (which means only the bad), and I've got no skin in this game, but the new bikes seem to be taking a proper flogging quite well.
I don't know much of anything about the previous bikes besides what's on the internet (which means only the bad), and I've got no skin in this game, but the new bikes seem to be taking a proper flogging quite well.
2nd that. They have a stupid habbit of choosing idiotic distributors. The guys at banshee on the other hand are super helpful
It may not look super nice, it's the same in a few places on my legend but as far as they hold up and ride great who cares?
Hi Guys
I'm Dalen and I work for Trident. I'm sorry for anyone who has had a bad experience with our customer service or a Banshee warranty. We have very recently made some staffing changes to improve our customer service since we were not offering the level that the owners wanted. I hope that in the future your experiences with our company will be exceptional and exceed your expectations.
If you ever have an issue with your experience with Trident don't hesitate to contact me at dalen@tridentsports.com. Bear in mind that I can not answer every PM or post on Ridemonkey immediately since I have a job to do here at Trident but I will try and get back as soon as possilbe.
Thanks!
Dalen
I'm Dalen and I work for Trident. I'm sorry for anyone who has had a bad experience with our customer service or a Banshee warranty. We have very recently made some staffing changes to improve our customer service since we were not offering the level that the owners wanted. I hope that in the future your experiences with our company will be exceptional and exceed your expectations.
If you ever have an issue with your experience with Trident don't hesitate to contact me at dalen@tridentsports.com. Bear in mind that I can not answer every PM or post on Ridemonkey immediately since I have a job to do here at Trident but I will try and get back as soon as possilbe.
Thanks!
Dalen
Thanks for chiming in, I'm glad to hear this. You're distributing some very appealing product.
bikes are to be ridden. I bet that Banshee frames beat other "fine-wielded" regarding frame life endurance
Last edited:
Mine is a living room trophy right now (or has been for about a month or so). Looks pretty nice I'm telling you! Parts are coming in slowly.
Old one was great, but a bugger with the bushings. Can't wait to build the new one up and shred. Although with temps like we have in MTL right now, gonna be a while before I get some meaningful minutes on it. Probably still a month off something decent.
Trident is the bomb, they handled my warranty issues like champs and had the V2 frame in no time. They even offered to get it with no shock 'cause I already had one. Super duper.
Old one was great, but a bugger with the bushings. Can't wait to build the new one up and shred. Although with temps like we have in MTL right now, gonna be a while before I get some meaningful minutes on it. Probably still a month off something decent.
Trident is the bomb, they handled my warranty issues like champs and had the V2 frame in no time. They even offered to get it with no shock 'cause I already had one. Super duper.
As Jackalope mentioned, we both had bushing issues with out V1 spitfires. He went a different direction and I was able to pick up a V2 frame for a very reasonable amount even though I was technically outside the 2 year window by the time the upgrade was offered. I had emailed with people at banshee regarding my issues within the window, so they gave me the most generous upgrade option. Throughout the process Jon and Keith at Banshee have been quick to reply, helpful and generally excellent dudes. For those saying they should not have to pay out, Banshee did offer a V1.5 spitfire with the new axles and wear washers preinstalled for free--I understand if people were worried about getting another bushing-based frame after those issues, but you can't say they were forcing people to pay to replace their frame. You were paying (not very much) for a massively upgraded frame.
Anyhow, I had a few delays as my frame shipped (on time and quickly) with the wrong dropouts, so had to email a few times to get that issue sorted. That took about 3 weeks to get sorted out. I found the folks at Trident helpful if a bit overwhelmed. It sounds like they are making some changes. I think calling on the phone is (as usual) better. Additionally, when emailing, I copied Jon and he helped keep things moving.
Just had my first ride on the new frame built up with same parts except that I upgraded to new XT 1x10 drivetrain and brakes. If you liked the first version you really should check out the second one. This thing is a friggin sled. Pedals great while feeling more compliant over trail chatter at speed, corners great (just like the first one), much stiffer laterally. My (very) early impression is that it retains the "DHers trailbike" feel of the V1 but is better in pretty much every way. I'm super excited to get this thing out to the mountains where I think it will really shine.
I'll update as I get moar time on the bike in the next few weeks.
Anyhow, I had a few delays as my frame shipped (on time and quickly) with the wrong dropouts, so had to email a few times to get that issue sorted. That took about 3 weeks to get sorted out. I found the folks at Trident helpful if a bit overwhelmed. It sounds like they are making some changes. I think calling on the phone is (as usual) better. Additionally, when emailing, I copied Jon and he helped keep things moving.
Just had my first ride on the new frame built up with same parts except that I upgraded to new XT 1x10 drivetrain and brakes. If you liked the first version you really should check out the second one. This thing is a friggin sled. Pedals great while feeling more compliant over trail chatter at speed, corners great (just like the first one), much stiffer laterally. My (very) early impression is that it retains the "DHers trailbike" feel of the V1 but is better in pretty much every way. I'm super excited to get this thing out to the mountains where I think it will really shine.
I'll update as I get moar time on the bike in the next few weeks.
My experiences mirror the others...I loved my v1, but it ate the bushings. I had issues with follow up on the replacement deal with Trident, but that was all recently resolved and my v2 frame is on its way to me as I type this. I am a bit torn as to either build it up or sell it as new and look into something else but I am leaning towards building it up as I did love my v1.
To echo the customer service jazz, I contacted Banshee directly this morning and received a response back this afternoon saying that they will be sending me an axle and bushing kit. Hopefully this holds for at least this summer. Love quick responses like that (take note Trident).
I had pretty much the same experience as SuboptimusPrime and BillT, but my V2 frame finally showed up last week. Although I too had an issue with getting the correct dropouts (ordered it with 26" 10x135 and 650b 12x142 but only the 650b were in the box) so it might be a few weeks before I can ride it. But I'm really looking forward to getting some rides in on it as the improvements over the V1 should make it an awesome bike. I didn't really have any complaints about the V1 aside from the bushing/frame wear issues.
Can you post up a frame weight?
Are sub28lbs builds achieveable with reasonable parts?
Are sub28lbs builds achieveable with reasonable parts?
I'll weigh it before building it up, but in the mtbr thread people were getting about 8 lbs for the frame. It is actually a bit heavier than the V1 frame, but that is the cost of bearings over bushings, replaceable dropouts, and also it is laterally stiffer. I would say complete builds could be 30lbs with reasonable parts, 28 lbs with really lightweight stuff.
My v2 came last week too.... medium, raw and mine only came with the 650b dropouts so I have to contact them to get an eta on the 26" ones. the new frame looks great and if it rides like the old one without the pivot issues then it will be a keeper. I'll post up a pic of the frame weight and full build weight when I start building it up.
Here is mine.
No real significant time on it yet. By riding a bit on it though, it feels more "tankish" that the V1. I also had to "unslack" it to the neutral position. The slackest position was just too much. I mean you must really love slack head angles to ride such a bike with 160mm fork in the slackest position.
- Frame size large but shorter (35mm) stem than my V1 (50mm) large du to a bit longer reach
- Chainguide positioning is wonky due to dropped chainstay.
- Feels much "smoother" when you cycle the rear suspension. Bearings show a significant improvement over the bushing setup on the V1
- The rear Manitou Swinger is really nice, but a *itch to setup due to abnormal amount of knobs to turn.
- Currently setup with a good ol Pike @ 140mm.
- The Banshee seatpost on the V2 is longer than on the V1, thus it is much easier to have good leg extension when climbing. I also have a dropper (Command Post Blacklite) but it's just *ucking useless when it's cold.
- About 32 pounds
No real significant time on it yet. By riding a bit on it though, it feels more "tankish" that the V1. I also had to "unslack" it to the neutral position. The slackest position was just too much. I mean you must really love slack head angles to ride such a bike with 160mm fork in the slackest position.
- Frame size large but shorter (35mm) stem than my V1 (50mm) large du to a bit longer reach
- Chainguide positioning is wonky due to dropped chainstay.
- Feels much "smoother" when you cycle the rear suspension. Bearings show a significant improvement over the bushing setup on the V1
- The rear Manitou Swinger is really nice, but a *itch to setup due to abnormal amount of knobs to turn.
- Currently setup with a good ol Pike @ 140mm.
- The Banshee seatpost on the V2 is longer than on the V1, thus it is much easier to have good leg extension when climbing. I also have a dropper (Command Post Blacklite) but it's just *ucking useless when it's cold.
- About 32 pounds
Last edited:
What's the BB height like with the Pikes on? Currently eying a Spitfire up and my retiring hardtail just so happens to have a set of Pikes on....
I'll go measure it and give you feedback.
I think the front ends matches up the rear pretty good with the pike. I love coil sprung fork, they work killer and are a breeze to maintain. I hope the new Pike will live up to the old one in terms of durability and overall awesomeness!
I know the bike was designed with 545 a to c in mind (160mm fork), but I like the "smaller" feeling of the Pike, especially since I don't ride hard hitting trails day in and day out.
I think the front ends matches up the rear pretty good with the pike. I love coil sprung fork, they work killer and are a breeze to maintain. I hope the new Pike will live up to the old one in terms of durability and overall awesomeness!
I know the bike was designed with 545 a to c in mind (160mm fork), but I like the "smaller" feeling of the Pike, especially since I don't ride hard hitting trails day in and day out.
Last edited: