[Bicyclist]

OK, I understand that comparitave product threads are getting extremely old, but I really need some advice.

I'm rockin' a Swinger right now on my Demo 8 and I want to upgrade my shock to either a DHX or a DB. I can decide if the performance of the DB is worth the money, but up until this point I haven't heard any reviews comparing a DB to a DHX. Has anyone ridden both? Can they chime in on the performance of each?

I've heard hints of spiking on DHXs. This is the main problem I have with the Swinger, along with lack of suppleness. Would the DHX be any better? Or is the DB the only real upgrade?

 

[blue]

DHX! You know, so you'll buy mine.

 

[Bicyclist]

So non-biased!

 

[julian_dh]

the cane creek is definatly the superior shock cause it comes from ohlins moto technology, but it also costs about twice as much.

 

[Bicyclist]

the cane creek is definatly the superior shock cause it comes from ohlins moto technology, but it also costs about twice as much.

That doesn't seem like a very well supported argument, but I agree that it is a superior shock. And yes, it sure is pricey.

 

[metalMTB]

yea but the DHX comes from Fox Racing Shox moto technology

details..........

 

[stgil888]

I have ridden neither shock. However, quite a few people seem to be happy with the Fox. It's cheaper, and probably lighter, if that matters to you. It looks like Push will be offering service on the DHX soon, so you'll be able to have it custom-valved...maybe. I wouldn't use Moto-technology as a selling point on bicycle specific gear. I don't know if you guys ride any mx, or motorcycles at all, but they're not well suited to pedal-biking. MX suspension designers don't have to worry about pedal-induced bobbing because the rider almost always weighs less than his rig. In DH, the bike can be 20% or less of the rider's weight. Off-the-showroom-floor MX bikes have a lot of technology and craftsmanship that would be unacceptable on a DH bike. If you don't believe me, drive out to a rural area and go to a MX/ATV dealership and take a look at the bikes. Besides the drivetrain, they are SIMPLE. Lots of cast parts, simple hex bolts and washers, stamped plastic...not the stuff you'd expect on a high-end DH bike.

 

[Bicyclist]

I totally feel you on the "moto technology" bs. The reason they're as expensive as a DH bike is that everything is cheap and mass produced.

The point about PUSH valving it is a good one.

 

[JeffD]

Give it three more months around here and questioning the CCDB's superiority will be like second guessing a Morewood or Sunday. Or farting in church.

 

[Bicyclist]

It does seem like a killer shock no doubt though.

 

[sinister37]

The ccdb is not based on moto technology at all. It is based on the ttx40 which they came up with in formula 1, gp and cart racing. The engineering used in the double barrel is basically the most cutting edge in suspension tech. Go with the ohlins.

 

[PoserNewbie]

There was someone who replied on one of the thread (I can't seem to find it now) about the two shocks. Apparently he rode both the DHX and CCDB and he pretty much said that the CCDB is a really nice shock but not $250 nicer than the DHX.

I'm sure the CCDB is a really nice shock but you have to ask yourself if you can justify the extra $$.

 

[Bicyclist]

Yeah. I've got to see what I can get a Double Barrel for EP and then make up my mind.

 

[dexterq20]

Shoot Li'l Dave a PM. He's used a Swinger, a DHX, and a Double Barrel on his Demo 8. He'll be able to give you a good idea of how they stack up against each other.

As for my experience, I have a Double Barrel on my Demo 8, and it's a pretty amazing shock. Super smooth, super tune-able, good small bump performance. And I've only ridden it twice.

Another thing to consider is that if you want a DHX for your Demo, you're gonna have to find somebody selling an OEM model, cuz you can't buy a Demo-specific DHX aftermarket. Fox did a big batch of them for Specialized at the beginning of the year, and that was it. They don't have any more that will fit a Demo.

 

[Bicyclist]

I know where to find an OEM DHX, that's what made me consider it in the first place.

 

[bizutch]

OK. So I have an '06 Demo 8 that came with the DHX 5.0 and our team rode the DHX 5.0 all last season on the Turner DHR.

The DHX is a great shock. It felt worlds better than my previous Romic, which was the exception amongst a host of turds at the time (considering ever other Romic was snapped or non-functional).
If anything, I would compare the DHX to the feel of a motocross shock more than any other shock I've ever had, definitely not the Double Barrel. It has what you could call a dead spot in the mid-range, multiple hits area. Go through a medium spaced, baby head area and you'll feel it try to buck you after a few successive hits...much like on my old moto bikes, it stiffened. It didn't mate very well to the works 888, which worked like water over glass...smoove. But it was a fantastic shock, another huge step up in performance and won't ever hold you back.

The Double Barrel, (sinister37 is correct), is NOT MOTO technology. The first time Ohlins facility here in the states (in Fletcher, NC) saw the technology was when Cane Creek brought the original prototypes into their offices to show it to them.

I've been on the Double Barrel for 3 weekends of very, very long DH. And I've been riding burly crap, no A-Line stuff. Basicly, the shock just disappears under you. You feel nothing...nothing bad, nothing vague, no pushing, jacking, spiking, squishing...it's amazing. Me and Jeremy just got back from Windrock and that place beat the hell out of me but just from the sheer volume of riding and the ruggedness of the place. My DH40 felt fantastic, but almost too stiff when compared the Double Barrel. It stayed planted to the ground all day long.

The Double Barrel is simpler to tune than just about anything else out there because there are no air bladders to pump up that force you to then adjust two different settings, like on the DHX. It is only a few grams heavier, around the difference between an Azonic and Easton handlebar.

If you want the absolute top of the line shock out and want to never think about your rear suspension and are willing to pay to get it, it's the one.

If you want to just race and the dollar amount to get it can't be justified, the DHX will never hold you back.

 

[blue]

Manitou Swinger 4-Way vs. CCDB.

GO!



I'm going to have Manipoo front and rear soon...

 

[Bicyclist]

OK. So I have an '06 Demo 8 that came with the DHX 5.0 and our team rode the DHX 5.0 all last season on the Turner DHR.

The DHX is a great shock. It felt worlds better than my previous Romic, which was the exception amongst a host of turds at the time (considering ever other Romic was snapped or non-functional).
If anything, I would compare the DHX to the feel of a motocross shock more than any other shock I've ever had, definitely not the Double Barrel. It has what you could call a dead spot in the mid-range, multiple hits area. Go through a medium spaced, baby head area and you'll feel it try to buck you after a few successive hits...much like on my old moto bikes, it stiffened. It didn't mate very well to the works 888, which worked like water over glass...smoove. But it was a fantastic shock, another huge step up in performance and won't ever hold you back.

The Double Barrel, (sinister37 is correct), is NOT MOTO technology. The first time Ohlins facility here in the states (in Fletcher, NC) saw the technology was when Cane Creek brought the original prototypes into their offices to show it to them.

I've been on the Double Barrel for 3 weekends of very, very long DH. And I've been riding burly crap, no A-Line stuff. Basicly, the shock just disappears under you. You feel nothing...nothing bad, nothing vague, no pushing, jacking, spiking, squishing...it's amazing. Me and Jeremy just got back from Windrock and that place beat the hell out of me but just from the sheer volume of riding and the ruggedness of the place. My DH40 felt fantastic, but almost too stiff when compared the Double Barrel. It stayed planted to the ground all day long.

The Double Barrel is simpler to tune than just about anything else out there because there are no air bladders to pump up that force you to then adjust two different settings, like on the DHX. It is only a few grams heavier, around the difference between an Azonic and Easton handlebar.

If you want the absolute top of the line shock out and want to never think about your rear suspension and are willing to pay to get it, it's the one.

If you want to just race and the dollar amount to get it can't be justified, the DHX will never hold you back.

Awesome. That's exactly what I was looking for. I owe you big for that.

The mid-range stuff in the DHX damping scares me. That seems like the 1 time shock performance is crucial.

 

[blue]

Don't make me machine my DHX so it will work with my bike. Please.

 

[motomike]

Awesome. That's exactly what I was looking for. I owe you big for that.

The mid-range stuff in the DHX damping scares me. That seems like the 1 time shock performance is crucial.

I have to agree with Butch 100%. I haven't even changed any of the settings on the shock yet just because I forget about the shock as soon as I drop in. It "dissappears" is a great analogy for it. You don't even think about it. Not once did it bottom out on me, nor even felt too stiff. And it just ate everything that got in it's way. IMO worth every penny. DO IT!

 

[dhkid]

kinda a stupid question, so there is no bottom out control like on other shoxs? just high speed compression? does that also mean the the shox is strictly speed sensitive not position?

 

[bizutch]

I have to agree with Butch 100%. I haven't even changed any of the settings on the shock yet just because I forget about the shock as soon as I drop in. It "dissappears" is a great analogy for it. You don't even think about it. Not once did it bottom out on me, nor even felt too stiff. And it just ate everything that got in it's way. IMO worth every penny. DO IT!

I cased the crap out of the road gap at Windrock Sunday and it loved all 190lbs of me. Landed soft...:love:

 

[SuspectDevice]

The best way for me to describe the action on the DB is that it is so smooth it felt like it had changed the wheelpath on my bike to something considerably more rearward in rocks!

 

[Renegade]

The DHX service that Push will be offering will completely eliminate the spiking that some owners have reported, plus the shock will be built to match your weight and riding style. Think of it as a custom shock. Virtually everything inside a stock DHX is thrown away, and all new parts are put in it. I can say no more at this time, so I recommend that you delay your decision a couple more weeks, untill the dhx upgrade has been released.

 

[Bicyclist]

Any idea on cost for the PUSH service?

 

[Renegade]

Any idea on cost for the PUSH service?

Sorry, I don't know what it will be. I'm sort of a guinea pig for the product, but I'm not involved with the pricing at all.

 

[Bicyclist]

Cool. What's the cost for Vanilla services right now?

 

[SuspectDevice]

Cool. What's the cost for Vanilla services right now?

Push has a website you know...

 

[Bicyclist]

Well the PUSH service would probably be about $200 w/ shipping, plus I'd have to wait on the shock and such. I'd rather buy a DB if I was putting down that kinda money.

 

[Renegade]

Cool. What's the cost for Vanilla services right now?

Bicyclist, check your p.m.'s please.

 

[speed racer]

I cased the crap out of the road gap at Windrock Sunday and it loved all 190lbs of me. Landed soft...:love:

Hey man, what spring rate are you running on your DB. we are within 5lbs of each other and I went from a 450 to a 500. Just curious!

 

[SuspectDevice]

Hey man, what spring rate are you running on your DB. we are within 5lbs of each other and I went from a 450 to a 500. Just curious!

i'm not Butch, and I don't ride a D8, but changing from a Progressive, I kept the same spring rate, a 350 on my 9.5x3 shock getting 10" of travel.

The Cane Creek guys seem to want everyone to run some mystical 35% sag for optimal performance out of the shock, but there is just no way I would ever run that little sag on my R9 and have my bike work the way I like it too. It's a testament to shock that I can run upwards of 50% static sag on my bike, and have the same sort of pedaling performance I got witht he Progressive, while having much more lively lowspeed compression and rebound.

My teamate actually went down in springrate, from a 450 on a romic to a 350 on the DB on his R9.

My only reservation about this setup is possible heat issues, but this weekend at Plattekill will see if those complaints come to life!

 

[speed racer]

So what do you weigh, and do you find it bottoming alot. Mine never did, but I had a 400lb spring on the Demo 8 and it felt great but the sag was at about 42%. Thought that might be too much. R u saying it still feels good and doesn't bottom with that much SAG?

 

[SuspectDevice]

So what do you weigh, and do you find it bottoming alot. Mine never did, but I had a 400lb spring on the Demo 8 and it felt great but the sag was at about 42%. Thought that might be too much. R u saying it still feels good and doesn't bottom with that much SAG?

The R9 is extremely progressive, I weigh 160, and my teammate is 175. The only compromise I have had to make is really bleeding off the HS rebound, I have mine almost all the way closed, at 1 turn out. I am running the HSC 1.5 turns from full open, and he is running his at 2 turns IIRC. I like my bike to stay squatted and rarely return to full travel, and those settings are accomplishing that.

No matter what shock I've tried I've never really been able to get a hard bottom out of the R9, except in the highest leverage setting, which I do not use. I get soft bottoms once or twice on a nice hard run, which is about right.

 

[Jeremy R]

So what do you weigh, and do you find it bottoming alot. Mine never did, but I had a 400lb spring on the Demo 8 and it felt great but the sag was at about 42%. Thought that might be too much. R u saying it still feels good and doesn't bottom with that much SAG?

Yo Ash,
What's up?
I did not comment is this thread yesterday, because I had not touched the adjustments on the Double Barrel yet. I left it in the stock recommended settings for a few rides to get a feel for it.
I weigh 175 fresh from a morning dump, and I am running a 400 ti spring with just enough preload to hold the spring.
Riding Windrock all day in the stock settings, I did not notice ANYTHING about the shock. It did not feel "plush", it did not feel harsh, it just went about its business. It did not feel like it was using all of its travel though. I realized this when I kept riding off drops that I have never seen before at slow speeds. It was not coming close to bottoming out on some hard hits.
So, last night I backed off on the high and low speed compression, and speed up the high and slow speed rebound by a couple of clicks,
and now if feels incredible. Those adjustments make a huge difference. If you like a platform shock, run it like one, if you like a super plush feeling shock, you can run it like that all with the same spring. And even set up plush it still pedals well. This is what I have been waiting for.
I can't wait to hit the trails and see if I have the high speed compression set up stiff enough.

 

[speed racer]

Well, at 190 I think I'm about right at a 450 or 500. I still get about 37% sag which feels pretty good. Thanks for the input

 

[bizutch]

Ashley...with the Double Barrel you should be running a spring that is slightly lighter than what you do with other shocks b/c the dampers control more of the duties than the spring.
Foes 2:1 ratio stuff is evidence of that...135-150lb springs on those things b/c the dampers are doing the work along iwth the leverage ratio.

I think the reason you "think" you need a 500lb spring is b/c you're down in GA flatlands and not able to get the shock up to speed on a mountain. In a parking lot, the damping is going to be all low speed which is not going to give you a feel for this shock at all. The 450lb spring is bottomless under me and I even gapped out and cased this:

...on Sunday and it ramped up perfectly and I landed like I was on a pillow.

 

[speed racer]

Yeah Cane Creek sent it with a 450 originally. The 500 feels good since I'm at 195 plus riding gear. But a 450 would probably feel that much better. I will get a 450 and see. I plan on hitting up windrock in a few weeks. Maybe May 18 &19th. Maybe ya'll can come up. thanks for the info!

Jeremy, did you hit the road gap. It looks ridiculous. Maybe the Demo will make up for my lack of flight school.

 

[Jeremy R]

Jeremy, did you hit the road gap. It looks ridiculous. Maybe the Demo will make up for my lack of flight school.

We only went that way once, and I followed Joey down the new Trail 1 instead. We were supposed to go back and hit it again, but we all got worked riding that goofy long trail from the Windmills up top, so we called it a day. That jump will be easy to hit, but the actual transition is a good ways out. It is not as big as the stupid jump at Mansell, but it is a little trickier.

 

[NeilBey]

The CC DB is a tough one. I've found that it feels very sluggish just pushing down on it at a standstill. My brother has ridden both (Fox DHX at the worlds last year and racing the NORBA this year on the DB) and he's loving the DB, moreso than the DHX. First impressions of the DB were fairly mediocre, to say the least. But after riding it, all that money you paid for it seems to be worth it for what you get in quality.