Evil Bikes 2008
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Your 100% correct. I hope your not upset with what I wrote. I was just trying to point out that there are more ways to do. You are correct that the CMM is way faster though since it is easy to create axis and planes. As long as the part doesn't move you don't even need a slab of granite.
CMM's are prone to user error too. If you only knew the amount of hours I have wasted trying to analyse part dimentionals only to pick up a caliper and measure something that didn't look right on the CMM report and find that the whole layout was jacked up since someone wasn't paying attention while running the CMM. Part of the problem with a CMM measuring small bores is that surface roughness can effect the axis generated. The skilled operator will take more points than the minimum and do a gage R&R to verify the gaging method. The hack will do the minimum and have no idea if the measurement method is repeatable.
The tools for the SR71 turbine blades for instance were made without CNC or CMM equipment. That was when engineers and tool makers needed to think about measuring while designing. As you know, you can't really be effective at designing something without first considering how your going to manufacture it and how your going to measure it.
I have done both methods of measuring a frame and would bribe the CMM guys with lunch if I were to do it again. It's not fun trying to hand measure the headtube relative the suspension to get it oreinted correctly. I take it that's what your jig helps with. Not needed witht he CMM.
Is it spring yet? I need to ride.
Ok just to clear some things up
First things off...I wasnt "having a go" at you Dave, just saying that some one who knows what their doing can measure up a frame pretty darn good with out a CMM(not everyone has one handy anyway).
As far as the this bike looks like that thing....it does get old along with other stupid comments which serve no purpose..but as General Lee said, people are entitled to say stupid things an we are entitled to call them on it.
lthumbsdown:
An im not hating on any way on EVIL in any way, i actualy like just about everything about them an their bikes
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Oh an Dave(DW) can you PLEASE contact me?re the message i left on your visitors page an that Travis(Dante) forwarded to you via email
First things off...I wasnt "having a go" at you Dave, just saying that some one who knows what their doing can measure up a frame pretty darn good with out a CMM(not everyone has one handy anyway).
As far as the this bike looks like that thing....it does get old along with other stupid comments which serve no purpose..but as General Lee said, people are entitled to say stupid things an we are entitled to call them on it.
lthumbsdown:An im not hating on any way on EVIL in any way, i actualy like just about everything about them an their bikes
.Oh an Dave(DW) can you PLEASE contact me?re the message i left on your visitors page an that Travis(Dante) forwarded to you via email
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Alright, it must have become public knowledge while i wasn't looking because everyone seems to know, but..... what the HELL is a CMM????
I guessed something like "Computer Measuring Msomething"
but uncle google would say Coordinate Measuring Machine.
I'm surprised that there aren't more comments from the peanut gallery about the bikes that were on display for public consumption at the FR cup this last weekend.
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I'm not sure if this is a thread drift, but if it is, I'm sure it can't hurt!
I'm wondering if the Delta Suspension System would be a good application for all-mountain and cross country platforms?
I'm wondering if the Delta Suspension System would be a good application for all-mountain and cross country platforms?
I couldn't help myself & this is for you Dave. Lucky me with some of my toys & in the end I always remember that they sent men into space with slide rules.
Jumping in on the Evil thread Jeff?
I'm surprised that there is no Intense thread, the new ones coming out are sick!
Jeff (I assume): is that a scanner or a CMM?
what a waste of money. you could do that work with a tape measure from sears and a calculator watch.
those are so unnecessary...blah, blah, blah
those are so unnecessary...blah, blah, blah
the picture does say CMM
I concur with both of these posts!Your 100% correct. I hope your not upset with what I wrote. I was just trying to point out that there are more ways to do. You are correct that the CMM is way faster though since it is easy to create axis and planes. As long as the part doesn't move you don't even need a slab of granite.
CMM's are prone to user error too. If you only knew the amount of hours I have wasted trying to analyse part dimentionals only to pick up a caliper and measure something that didn't look right on the CMM report and find that the whole layout was jacked up since someone wasn't paying attention while running the CMM. Part of the problem with a CMM measuring small bores is that surface roughness can effect the axis generated. The skilled operator will take more points than the minimum and do a gage R&R to verify the gaging method. The hack will do the minimum and have no idea if the measurement method is repeatable.
The tools for the SR71 turbine blades for instance were made without CNC or CMM equipment. That was when engineers and tool makers needed to think about measuring while designing. As you know, you can't really be effective at designing something without first considering how your going to manufacture it and how your going to measure it.
I have done both methods of measuring a frame and would bribe the CMM guys with lunch if I were to do it again. It's not fun trying to hand measure the headtube relative the suspension to get it oreinted correctly. I take it that's what your jig helps with. Not needed witht he CMM.
Is it spring yet? I need to ride.
Being a toolmakery type injaneer myself (and no, I have never made a hammer, although I did make a saw once!), a CMM is the best and fastest way to measure stuff, if you know what you are doing, if you dont then its a big expensive pile of poo.
oster_oops:You could use a shadow graph as well, Ive never seen one big enough to do a whole bike, but they may be out there!
Hhhhmmmmm...
now i know this is a huge thread and these questions have been answered before but..
the adjustable geo, it says head angle min is 64degrees and bb height min is 13.78" is this possible at the same time?
has any prices for europe (france/uk if you want a specific area) been released?
what the hell is a virtual top tube? same as effective?
thanks
the adjustable geo, it says head angle min is 64degrees and bb height min is 13.78" is this possible at the same time?
has any prices for europe (france/uk if you want a specific area) been released?
what the hell is a virtual top tube? same as effective?
thanks
DW-
Have you played at all with any ideas to match the front suspension leverage ratios to the rear? You seem to have done a lot of work on the Revolt, I had heard 13 iterations in whatever your CAD software of choice is before settling on the leverage curve you wanted, but it still leaves the front with a 1:1 leverage through the entire travel with the only manipulation through progressive springs or suspension valving. I was talking to a coworker this morning about different suspension ideas like BMW Paralever or the front swingarm on the Bimota Tesi and it got me curious to know if you had explored that at all.
Can you push the new Evil crew to look at gear box bikes too? I know you had some intentions with Evil a few years ago but things really seemed to gone dead in that direction in the USA. I feel like the next big improvement in suspension action will come from reduced unsprung weight on the swingarm. Gearboxes and the Delta system might have some serious packaging conflicts though.
Have you played at all with any ideas to match the front suspension leverage ratios to the rear? You seem to have done a lot of work on the Revolt, I had heard 13 iterations in whatever your CAD software of choice is before settling on the leverage curve you wanted, but it still leaves the front with a 1:1 leverage through the entire travel with the only manipulation through progressive springs or suspension valving. I was talking to a coworker this morning about different suspension ideas like BMW Paralever or the front swingarm on the Bimota Tesi and it got me curious to know if you had explored that at all.
Can you push the new Evil crew to look at gear box bikes too? I know you had some intentions with Evil a few years ago but things really seemed to gone dead in that direction in the USA. I feel like the next big improvement in suspension action will come from reduced unsprung weight on the swingarm. Gearboxes and the Delta system might have some serious packaging conflicts though.
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Yes, b/c of the FlipChip system used on the Revolts there is a ton of geometry tuning options.
UK prices can be had via Silverfish. The French distributor is still being sorted. Something should be nailed down there very shortly.
Virtual TT & Effective TT are the same. Since that bike on the site is the original rendering I guess we can call it "virtual"
We have discussed gearboxes but it's not really an option right now in the market. There aren't off-the-shelf, plug-and-play options that are either cost effective or weight competitive.
-ska todd
Ska Todd-
Will the XL still make it to production?
Will the XL still make it to production?
Ska Todd-
Thanks for the reply. I don't really expect either of those ideas of mine to make it to production any time soon (if at all) but I think it would be an interesting path to follow. I've talked to Kevin about it a bit too. He knows that I have lots of ideas and he usually tells me why they won't work but there fun to bounce off him anyways.
And FWIW, I hope to have a Revolt built up by mid May and have been trying hard to give my money to someone so I can get a frame.
Thanks for the reply. I don't really expect either of those ideas of mine to make it to production any time soon (if at all) but I think it would be an interesting path to follow. I've talked to Kevin about it a bit too. He knows that I have lots of ideas and he usually tells me why they won't work but there fun to bounce off him anyways.
And FWIW, I hope to have a Revolt built up by mid May and have been trying hard to give my money to someone so I can get a frame.
ska todd, what did you guys do? Sit down, figure out what every rider has ever wanted, and put it into one bike?
i cant find any information on the prices of the revolt on the silverfish website? only the faction
thats pretty competitive really, most high end frames are well over the £2000 mark in the uk this year
Ummm, actually $2200......
Do you have any idea when an RC4 shock option will be available ?
Also is the cable routing on Steve and Matti's bikes the same as production ?
Cheers.
maybe in america, that works out at about 1500gbp anyway!
I was told at the race I was at last weekend that Steve and Matti's bikes are production frames so I would expect the routing to be the same for the rest of us. It looked pretty good on the bikes that I saw.
Any "peeks" of the the other frames?
toby
toby
Thanks.
Just like safety wire from what I gathered. Better safe than sorry at a World Cup in a distant land.
-ska todd
Bent shock bolt? Sorry, had to.
I think camera angle. The other pic on Dirt shot at the same time it looks straight and he didn't say anything about it when we talked to him earlier today that I know of. Bending 10mm steel hardware takes some major hucking.
-ska todd
Dang, you got cell phone alerts for this thread?I think camera angle. The other pic on Dirt shot at the same time it looks straight and he didn't say anything about it when we talked to him earlier today that I know of. Bending 10mm steel hardware takes some major hucking.
-ska todd
Figured it was camera (what I - a photo noob - calls the "fish eye", when a straight line looks bent because of lens choice).I saw that too. But looking at and handling the linkage pieces/fame in person.....I dont think they would bend like they appear to be....Very beefy links and very short hardware.
Frame looks/'parking lot' feels good for sure, I do however prefer the older proto head tube design to production...more aero!!