[buckoW]

the World Cup RC4 is no different than a standard RC4, just limited edition and was on sale months prior to the standard RC4. the 40 WC had the different compression tuning.
when my CCDB arrives, ill be able to see how a different shock performs on the bike. i am glad i did get the WC RC4 over the DHX which was the only option for the Revolt when i bought the frame.

everyone is different like you said. i prefer my Curnutts and or my old Avy over the Fox options.....but thats just me

I was under the impression that the compression is firmer in the WC edition. I tested the Atherton tune in a couple different RC4 length shocks (9.5" and 10.5") and it was referred to as the WC tune or the Atherton tune by Fox. I think the firmer compression might be not working out with the double progressive curve of the bike. Do you have the bottom out closed as well? I know you said you don't like it but there are lots of different tunes and you might have a firm tune for a neutral curve bike when the Evil has a more complex curve. Could be giving you too much mid stroke support with the combo.

 

[Mr Nug]

it seems that there are allot of problems with the linkage bolts/overall linkage design in term of durability , hence - http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Thomas-Vanderhams-Prototype-Evil-Revolt,1042/Slideshow,3896/sspomer,2
a 2009 frame that gets a new prototype for 2010 is very wrong (for current customers at least)

I should probably say first that I'm a Revolt rider..

If you listen to the audio, the "new prototype" is just two pinky sized pieces of metal and some bolts. Geo and construction are the same.

No doubt these will be made available to existing Revolt riders as soon as they're done with the testing.

 

[ilfreerider]

and the brace is just a little piece of aluminium that weighs nothing ,yet is still (imo) ugly and doesn't look like it "belongs" to the frame ,rather like a fix that was just created to solve a problem that should have been addressed prior to the release of the bike.
why should anyone consider purchasing a frame that has the next incarnation of it due out soon?
my main point is that imo,the evil will need at least one more season in order to fix its bugs.im sure its a great riding frame ,but for 2800usd ,it should also be built perfectly !

 

[P.T.W]

and the brace is just a little piece of aluminium that weighs nothing ,yet is still (imo) ugly and doesn't look like it "belongs" to the frame ,rather like a fix that was just created to solve a problem that should have been addressed prior to the release of the bike.
why should anyone consider purchasing a frame that has the next incarnation of it due out soon?
my main point is that imo,the evil will need at least one more season in order to fix its bugs.im sure its a great riding frame ,but for 2800usd ,it should also be built perfectly !

Yeah its not like Transition bikes have never needed "updates" http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225747&highlight=blindside+stays

Not having a dig at Transition at all, my point is its quite common for certain things to crop up after a company gets large numbers of people on their frames. What is important is how these updates are implemented and made avalable. Im sure most will agree that both Evil and Transition among others, have gone out of their way to make these updates easly avalable at little or zero cost to their customers.

 

[yd35]

It looks like the TR450 uses internal cable routing in one of the rear chain stays. Isn't that a way for muck to build up inside of the chain stay that will never come out?

 

[ilfreerider]

Yeah its not like Transition bikes have never needed "updates" http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225747&highlight=blindside+stays

the fact that it happens some times to other companies is undebatable,but when a company charges over 2800$ for a frame ,i expect much more attention to details and little "bugs" !

 

[IH8Rice]

I was under the impression that the compression is firmer in the WC edition. I tested the Atherton tune in a couple different RC4 length shocks (9.5" and 10.5") and it was referred to as the WC tune or the Atherton tune by Fox. I think the firmer compression might be not working out with the double progressive curve of the bike. Do you have the bottom out closed as well? I know you said you don't like it but there are lots of different tunes and you might have a firm tune for a neutral curve bike when the Evil has a more complex curve. Could be giving you too much mid stroke support with the combo.

according to everything ive read about it, including Fox's website, the WC RC4 is no different.....just limited production as i mentioned before.
i have the bottom out 1 turn from fully open as suggested by the Evil guys and after some trial and error by me. i bottom it out a few times a day, so i am using my full travel.
ive ridden other Revolts with the RC4 and it feels the same. i wasnt a fan of Fox before and this didnt help

 

[Sam B]

It looks like the TR450 uses internal cable routing in one of the rear chain stays. Isn't that a way for muck to build up inside of the chain stay that will never come out?

All the tubes on your bike have a vent hole somewhere - it is required to properly weld it up.

 

[Acadian]

according to everything ive read about it, including Fox's website, the WC RC4 is no different.....just limited production as i mentioned before.
i have the bottom out 1 turn from fully open as suggested by the Evil guys and after some trial and error by me. i bottom it out a few times a day, so i am using my full travel.
ive ridden other Revolts with the RC4 and it feels the same. i wasnt a fan of Fox before and this didnt help

you're not the only one. I have an RC4 on my 09 Giant Reign and rode that thing pretty hard all summer. Overall it's a good shock, much better than the DHX ever was, but it doesn't work all that well deeper in it's stroke. I also had to send it in once after the rebound stopped working.

Haven't tried the longer travel ones (e.g. 9.5 x 3) tho....

 

[blackohio]

well ,i wont talk about the tr450 as im a transition dealer ,but i dont see ,of all dh bikes available on the market ,how could anyone really think about investing around 2800usd in a revolt frame.putting aside the performance of the glorified "delta" linkage (which im sure is great),it seems that there are allot of problems with the linkage bolts/overall linkage design in term of durability , hence - http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Thomas-Vanderhams-Prototype-Evil-Revolt,1042/Slideshow,3896/sspomer,2
a 2009 frame that gets a new prototype for 2010 is very wrong (for current customers at least)
also ,dont forget the added tt/st brace that was added "just for looks/ind design" and not cause people were cracking their revolts.imo,it looks out of place and ugly and an unplanned fix.

the revolt kinda reminds me of the new turner dhr ,but in the opposite direction - lets get the bike out first and than work on the problems/issues !

Actually I think you'll find that unless your vanderham, smith, polc or lehikeonnen (sp?) the linkage bolts/pieces are a non-issue. I've beat the ****ing **** out of my revolt for almost a full year and the only problems i've encountered were a bearing that didnt rotate fully smoth and a cross threaded part( which I DID) The frame is bullet-proof, the parts are just as strong and it rides amazing. Oh and im a big boy at 6'2" 220lbs and this bike takes everything.

This is nothing about Transition but more of a reply to someone who has ZERO real world experience on a Revolt.

 

[LukeD]

you're not the only one. I have an RC4 on my 09 Giant Reign and rode that thing pretty hard all summer. Overall it's a good shock, much better than the DHX ever was, but it doesn't work all that well deeper in it's stroke. I also had to send it in once after the rebound stopped working.

Haven't tried the longer travel ones (e.g. 9.5 x 3) tho....

it doesn't. I've had issues with mine packing up deeper in the travel...rebound just doesn't feel quick enough or something, it's odd.

 

[IH8Rice]

it doesn't. I've had issues with mine packing up deeper in the travel...rebound just doesn't feel quick enough or something, it's odd.

i had similar issues as well. with the Revolt, there was a fine line b/w the rebound. a few clicks too far in and it packed up. a few clicks too much out and it was a pogo stick.

no more RC4 for me though! CCDB ordered today!

 

[Mr Nug]

no more RC4 for me though! CCDB ordered today!

Wahey! You won't regret it! I had 2 weeks off my CCDB while it was getting a service. Was back on the DHX5 in the meantime (didn't want to use/devalue my RC4 before ebay). Surprisingly, I didn't think it was that bad... until I got my CCDB back

 

[crohnsy]

well ,i wont talk about the tr450 as im a transition dealer ,but i dont see ,of all dh bikes available on the market ,how could anyone really think about investing around 2800usd in a revolt frame.putting aside the performance of the glorified "delta" linkage (which im sure is great),it seems that there are allot of problems with the linkage bolts/overall linkage design in term of durability , hence - http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Thomas-Vanderhams-Prototype-Evil-Revolt,1042/Slideshow,3896/sspomer,2
a 2009 frame that gets a new prototype for 2010 is very wrong (for current customers at least)
also ,dont forget the added tt/st brace that was added "just for looks/ind design" and not cause people were cracking their revolts.imo,it looks out of place and ugly and an unplanned fix.

the revolt kinda reminds me of the new turner dhr ,but in the opposite direction - lets get the bike out first and than work on the problems/issues !

I like that once you tell us you're a transition dealer you jump right into badmouthing the Evil. Real classy

 

[thad]

Actually I think you'll find that unless your vanderham, smith, polc or lehikeonnen (sp?) the linkage bolts/pieces are a non-issue. I've beat the ****ing **** out of my revolt for almost a full year and the only problems i've encountered were a bearing that didnt rotate fully smoth and a cross threaded part( which I DID) The frame is bullet-proof, the parts are just as strong and it rides amazing. Oh and im a big boy at 6'2" 220lbs and this bike takes everything.

A riding buddy has had problems with his revolt linkage "revolting". He is maybe 5'10" 165lbs, and a fast 30-39 cat 1. I would describe his riding style as calculated, and the bike maintenance as meticulous/obsessive. I don't think this is an isolated case. Seems like a lot of 1st year Evils had issues. But, hopefully these new links will solve the problem.

P.S. saw Luke Strobel on a Revolt this weekend.

 

[IH8Rice]

A riding buddy has had problems with his revolt linkage "revolting".

what hell is "revolting?"

 

[thad]

Linkage bolts constantly loosening/bending and rubbing against the downtube. If that's not "highly offensive; arousing aversion or disgust" on a $2800 over seas frame, what is?

 

[blackohio]

I had the bolt on my linkage come loose once directly following a spring swap. It did the same thing. I used a little locktite and torqued it properly and never once did it again.

...and I got one of the first batch US frames. For me I just make sure things are tight before a ride and ride the **** out of the bike. 1 year later it has one bearing with some stiction in its rotation, and the x-threaded shock linkage bolt. Im going to swap those out, ride the **** out of it for another year and be glad I have a "$2800 overseas frame."

 

[Santa Maria]

I had the bolt on my linkage come loose once directly following a spring swap. It did the same thing. I used a little locktite and torqued it properly and never once did it again.

...and I got one of the first batch US frames. For me I just make sure things are tight before a ride and ride the **** out of the bike. 1 year later it has one bearing with some stiction in its rotation, and the x-threaded shock linkage bolt. Im going to swap those out, ride the **** out of it for another year and be glad I have a "$2800 overseas frame."

there are frames out there where you do not need any locktite and the linkage does not get loose!

 

[blackohio]

well then maybe you should be touting that, rather than bashing this.

 

[freeridefool]

Frames are really expensive. The revolt isnt the most expensive frame out there. For 2800 you get a top end frame, that has had a couple of minor problems that have been addresed. And you get a company that is handling the problems free of charge to their customers. This evil bashing train is stupid, and I dont even own one.

The transition looks pretty bad ass too. I have nothing bad to ever say about transiton. Im sure its every bit as good at the revolt. Only done in a simpler way. It probably wont pedal as well, or be as blingy, but its a bad ass frame. Im sure little things may crop up just like in the revolt, but transition will handle it.

There is no way one bike is going to make you faster than the other.

 

[IH8Rice]

there are frames out there where you do not need any locktite and the linkage does not get loose!

omg!!11!1! that must be the best bike in the world! whats it called so we can bash that one?

 

[Santa Maria]

omg!!11!1! that must be the best bike in the world! whats it called so we can bash that one?

no, i won't tell you

 

[haromtnbiker]

To those that have ridden the tr450, thoughts on wheelbase length?

I've been comparing some numbers, and the medium frame (which is what I would run) has a 46.5 wb. I rode a large 2006 izimu for half a season, with a wb around 46.5 as well. I thought it felt too long, compared to my Sunday (medium) at 45.25. I generally prefer a bike that has a short wheelbase while being low (around 13.6-13.9) and a head angle around 64.

Anybody have thoughts as to whether the wheelbase on the TR may be too long to accomplish great turning abilities? I'm sure it would be very fast in a straight line, but many of the trails that I ride are fairly tight and twisty.

 

[Raingauge]

A riding buddy has had problems with his revolt linkage "revolting". He is maybe 5'10" 165lbs, and a fast 30-39 cat 1. I would describe his riding style as calculated, and the bike maintenance as meticulous/obsessive. I don't think this is an isolated case. Seems like a lot of 1st year Evils had issues. But, hopefully these new links will solve the problem.

P.S. saw Luke Strobel on a Revolt this weekend.

If he's that meticulous/obsessive he would have used loctite. I used loctite plus a torque wrench with no problems all year. Checked the linkage with my torque wrench every few weeks and nothing loosened off.

I like the look of the seat tube/top tube brace. The frames without them look incomplete. IMO.

 

[Acadian]

To those that have ridden the tr450, thoughts on wheelbase length?

I've been comparing some numbers, and the medium frame (which is what I would run) has a 46.5 wb. I rode a large 2006 izimu for half a season, with a wb around 46.5 as well. I thought it felt too long, compared to my Sunday (medium) at 45.25. I generally prefer a bike that has a short wheelbase while being low (around 13.6-13.9) and a head angle around 64.

Anybody have thoughts as to whether the wheelbase on the TR may be too long to accomplish great turning abilities? I'm sure it would be very fast in a straight line, but many of the trails that I ride are fairly tight and twisty.

I don't think anyone can answer that question other than you.

I know people that prefer short wheelbases and other prefer longer - its a personal preference.

don't laugh - but my trail bikes have wheelbases longer than 46 (my Orange Alpine 160 is 46.2 and my Reign is also around 46). I personally like it and doesn't hinder my cornering at all. to me it makes for a more stable bike at speed - but that's just my preference.

I say stick with what you prefer....but you won't know what you really like unless you TRY different options.

 

[mountains4me]

I am also looking at these two frames for a new ride. I currently have an Sx Trail set up for more downhill riding. The one thing I do not like about it is that it seems to lose momentum and get hung up in rough chattery rocky sections. A riders technique can compensate for only so much. I love the bike but that is the only complaint I have. I have heard others comment on the same thing even on demos. I have a Pushed tuned shock and it is great but does not eliminate this characteristic. For my new ride I am looking for a bike that does not exhibit this so much. A frame that holds it momentum or seems to accelerate through this kind of terrain. For anyone who has spent time on a TR450 with a proper shock setup, how does this bike handle rocky, chattery terrain. Same Q for those of you with time on a Revolt.

 

[blackohio]

I can tell you my revolts a monster on anything. It really sucks any terrain you can throw at it up.

 

[mountains4me]

Anybody with decent amount of time on a tr450 have any feedback on the how well this bike holds momentum through rough, rocky, chattery terrain? Or does it seem to get hung up on stuff?

 

[toodles]

I've gotten about 30 runs on my TR450 across 4 tracks now. I can't say I've noticed it "hanging" up on rocky sections anymore than my DHR or Sunday ever did. It actually seems to manage flat out rock smashing pretty well, although in the lowest setting my pedals are clipping stuff all the time.

I wouldn't think too much about these things. Just go with whichever frame you can get the better deal on. No one with either frame seems to have any complaints about the ride characteristics.

 

[nmpearson]

^yeah, i agree. I haven't had any time on the revolt, but i feel like when you get up to the really high end DH frames, you're not going to really hate any of them. The angles and sizing are pretty dang close and you'd love whichever.

I've been running it on the slackest setting also, and it doesn't seem to have any issues. My sunday was equally as smooth through rough sections. If it hangs up on anything, i can't really tell. It could have to do with I feel the RC4 is a better shock than the old DHX 5.0's. I do feel that the blindside was smoother through the rock gardens for some reason. I love my TR and look forward to a whole season of it. I

 

[dropmachine]

I think its funny that people whine about Boxxers needing to be checked when you first get them, but consider having to do preventative maintenance on something that costs twice as much perfectly normal.


Also, an honest question. I thought the idea about getting products built overseas was to keep the price down, no? If thats the case, why does the Revolt cost more then US made bikes like the V10, Rotec and Intense 951?

 

[dump]

both bikes look great. 450 is hard to beat for the money.

 

[buckoW]

Also, an honest question. I thought the idea about getting products built overseas was to keep the price down, no? If thats the case, why does the Revolt cost more then US made bikes like the V10, Rotec and Intense 951?

It is not for cost reasons but for production capabilities such as forged parts and hydro formed tubes. You can do a more complex frame structure at a similar price.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

It is not for cost reasons but for production capabilities such as forged parts and hydro formed tubes. You can do a more complex frame structure at a similar price.

Here in the US it's more for cost reasons. From a business standpoint, I understand, but looking at our current unemployment rate, and watching US manufactures taking everything overseas is really kind of sad.

 

[dropmachine]

It is not for cost reasons but for production capabilities such as forged parts and hydro formed tubes. You can do a more complex frame structure at a similar price.

Yeah that still doesnt' make sense though. Its not like the V10 or 951 are lacking in any sort of complicated shapes. Both have hydroformed stuff on them. As such, the question still remains as to why the Revolt is the same price as a locally made frame.

I'm just curious, not starting an arguement.

 

[ride]

I thought that Santa Cruz did their manufacturig overseas as well?

 

[dropmachine]

Far as I know the V10 and other VPP bikes are US made, the single pivot stuff is asian.

 

[Banshee Rider]

Far as I know the V10 and other VPP bikes are US made, the single pivot stuff is asian.

The V10 is now their only SAPA bike, the rest are from overseas. The VPP bikes stopped coming thru with a USA badge when the LT2 was released a couple seasons back.

 

[blackohio]

Yeah that still doesnt' make sense though. Its not like the V10 or 951 are lacking in any sort of complicated shapes. Both have hydroformed stuff on them. As such, the question still remains as to why the Revolt is the same price as a locally made frame.

I'm just curious, not starting an arguement.

Resources and (now) technology is in Taiwan. I would say that at this point the taiwanese are better at building bikes than we are (when it comes to high production volumes)

Im sure the decision to build there came from years of industry contacts and trust built up by the associated parties from Evil. Profit probably played a role in it. That bike isnt cheap to make and im sure that the cost of starting up and maintaining a running company in addition to a WC team all are factors.