Every bike has compromises, pick the best compramise for you. Forums (for me)should be used to outline bikes and bike products pros and cons.
FTW industries fb10
- Thread starter brooklyndon
- Start date
Why wouldn't a single pivot with a very properly placed pivot and favorable leverage curve NOT be tunable??
Also exactly WHAT bearing does a bike being a single pivot vs. linkage have on the way it steers???
You do realize that quite a good number of dual link bikes create axle paths that are non-migratory (identical to a single pivot) with leverage curves that are attainable without having 8 bearings in the back end....right?
Also exactly WHAT bearing does a bike being a single pivot vs. linkage have on the way it steers???
You do realize that quite a good number of dual link bikes create axle paths that are non-migratory (identical to a single pivot) with leverage curves that are attainable without having 8 bearings in the back end....right?
I was talking about the Fb10, and it's pivot location. I didn't state it would "NOT be tuneable".You could make many other bikes feel like that one, but not the other way around. That bike can't be anymore square edge hit compliant than it is with the best shock, however, a vertical or rearward axle path bike, or an S bend axle path, or whatever(non lower pivot bikes) could be more bump compliant if set up right, or could be set up to be not as supple at absorbing square edge impacts(like th fb10). I'm talking about suspension quality here, not stering geometry. This isn't some big deal, just an added note, and just what I see as the best balance of compromise, and a larger diverse range.
As a lesser travel trail bike, I think the Fb10s pivot location has more argument for it's use(better balance of compromise), and I'd probably be very happy with it.
A single pivot with a chainline height pivot, will have it's wheel base shorten once the rear axle gets past the height of the pivot, making the bike shorter, and therfore less stable, but quicker steering. Picture a limo Vs a mini.
Please name a virtual pivot bike that has the same axle path as this one.
Yes I realise some have similar axle paths to single pivot bikes. But most favor deigns for pedaling/anti squat characteristics, bump compliance/absorbtion.
The leverage curve of this bike is not that readable, as without the shock shuttle/shock mount location identified, and without the rear axle at the right height, it's hard to tell how the shock will ramp up (or have a falling rate). My guess is it'll ramp up, or doubtful but possible, have a slight falling rate towards the end of it's stroke, I may be wrong, it's not that relevant to much to anything I've said previously to do with this bike anway.
In my eyes, this bikes merits are a probably active rear end when pedalling(if you like that), Predictable feel, fast feeling/ responsive handling/good cornering feel.
It will stiffen up while rear brake is on(so not fully active). It may squat a bit when pedaling, if pivot is below chain line(I can't tell).
Without seeing shock location, that's all I can read into it.
I fail to see how your comments help your possition of calling me a retard. You've not disproved anything I origonally stated. and I can't see anything you've said as more valid than my statements. However after rereading my post, it was a bit blunt and non descriptive. I agree with rigidhack that having the brake stiffen the suspension or make it squat can prove to be beneficial, like making the geo set up for corners,and making the bike feel more acurate like a hardtail.
With the near cult status that old Turner DHRs had(this I'd imagine will feel similar), I'm sure it'll be loved by many, not my cup of tea.
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You do realise there is more to suspension than axle paths?
I have no problems with people liking such bikes. Almost bought a 224 and I hate to spend hours servicing my bike (what happens this season but its not the frame but ****ty sram products). Also do 8 beargins kill you? Ive been riding 4bar/virtual frames for quite some time and only one had bearing problems but it was a lower end frame from 2003 and it was easily solvable. For me if we compare 2 properly designed bikes not a good sp to a crapply made 4bar/virtual the only benefit of this suspension is weight and Im done with chasing weight even though local tracks sometimes look like very worn down enduro tracks rather than what we see on freecaster and it might be beneficial for some riding styles.
We have a flood here right now. My bike is full of mud all the time, I ride in heavy rain and wash my bike a lot. Dust or not Im doubt its worse that sick amounts of water. Did the same last year to my previous bike - ride a lot in the wet and somehow it had no bearing problems for 2 years.
Thats why I was saying - virtual pivot/4bar and a single pivot of comparable quality. Im pretty sure if it was that crappy the brits would ride only oranges
What frame are you rockin'? I should've added in my previous post that I see identical problems with v-10's. People constantly dealing with their bearings on them around here. Although I agree it is a tradeoff. I'd just never ever trade a SP that can run the same bearings for years for a SC that needs $70 new bearings every 3 months (and even more in PNW or East coast conditions I'd imagine). Thats like...$500-600 bucks over the life of the frame!
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Naah, I have a santa cruz allergy. Free rides funky imho and 10s are short, even compared to my legend. Currently I run banshee legend mk2 and previously I rode lapierre dh-230 (amazing build quality but the geo kinda made no sense - too long for that ha so it wasnt stable enough on the steep tracks and on the tighter slower stuff it was way too long).
Ah, ya that banshee looks pretty solid. Regardless of suspension performance, I think geo is the most important factor in a frame anyways. For me it goes
1. geo
2. durability (both structural and moving parts wise)
3. Suspension dynamics
4. Weight
I should ad, that I don't think there's probably a more natural feeling bike than a chainline height pivot location single pivot. I find you get on, and feel fast, and at home, straight away(if set up, and sizing, etc is correct).
I have to agree on the paint colour. It kinda calls out for a white banana seat and sparkly rainbow streamers on the bar ends. This is why I'm keeping mine RAW.
Id also choose different stickers but im being too picky now
Though id prolly just try to design my own 
Raw is always good
frank is a welder...not a graphic design artist.
Is being a welder contradictory with having taste? Im not impling that Frank has none but from what I read from your post I shure do. You dont need to be an artist to design a better logo and choose a better paint. Im pretty sure a lot of the smaller companies have no contact with graphic designers either.
I really doubt Frank chose that paint. From my understanding, every frame is custom finished.
It ain't about how it looks, it is all about how it rides. If you want a pretty bike, get a Jones Ti frame. If this frame is ugly, then so is a Transition TR450, an Evil Revolt, and pretty much anything else with a big shock smack in the middle of it. Actually, lets face facts, all suspended bikes are pretty much ugly. (Yes, I said it!) Or maybe it is more that they have an aesthetic all their own. I remember seeing a four bar design (Kona Stinky I think) for the first time and being entirely unable to comprehend it.
It ain't about how it looks, it is all about how it rides. If you want a pretty bike, get a Jones Ti frame. If this frame is ugly, then so is a Transition TR450, an Evil Revolt, and pretty much anything else with a big shock smack in the middle of it. Actually, lets face facts, all suspended bikes are pretty much ugly. (Yes, I said it!) Or maybe it is more that they have an aesthetic all their own. I remember seeing a four bar design (Kona Stinky I think) for the first time and being entirely unable to comprehend it.
Looks are not that important but when I pay over 2k$ for something it may look better than a bike for 100$ though for the most part I agree.
Can you post a link to that bike?
btw. stinky - faux bar not 4 bar - rear axle attached to the frame.
It is still a 4-bar in the classical sense of the term.
All the FB colors are made to order.
You mean the old kona marketing sense?
S wheel shaped path and magical fsr and ict that push you off obstacles and add speed as you hit them
No, I mean in the 3 rotating members attached to a fixed object kind of sense. I don't even remember what their marketing crap was.
I'm not talking about graphics or colors, im talking about overall bike design, forms, lines, proportions, etc
I really like Frank bikes, the DNA is nice and the Splinter was my fav, but this one looks taken from a crappy sci-fi movie
That is BS, when you pay 3K's for a frame it has to ride exelent, look sexy and last forever.
The evil revolt is balanced design thre is armony between the size of the tubes in the swingarm, the top tube is not oversized in exess, etc.
In a nice dh bike the design lines should flow from the headtube to the rear axle. thats it
I'm all about Raw for the frame but I'd like to see an FB10 in ALL black...front end and swingarm, like Frank's personal F-Bomb was.... That was one sweet looking bike.
Mine will be all black! None more black, as a matter of fact.
Ha... that's funny. Since I posted I've been trying to track down the photo of Frank's 'Bomb.
Dude, it's a faux bar, and always has been.
That purple bike will look fine when built, but whocares, when was the last time you met a girl, got a job, made friends, or anything due to how your bike looked?
Rising rate the whole way, looks so different with the shock in, not sure if there'll be contact between piggy back and top tube. Looks toit.
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Are these dual ISCG tabs?
Here's an idea. If you don't like the FB10, don't buy one. But make sure you post whatever you do buy so we can all piss on your parade, OK? As for me, I am going to ride the hell out of mine and love every damn minute of it, no matter what anybody else thinks about how it looks.
That's the spirit, and I'm sure you'll love every minute of it. Enjoy
I didn't mean to bring anyone down, it's a forum, I like talking about pros and cons of designs to help people(and myself)understand them.
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Ok then, but let me remember you this is an open opinion forum, and no one is telling you to not buy one...
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Right on, Hack! Forum or not, I can't stand it when after someone tries to knock everything/everyone down, they come back with that lame @ss reasoning...."I was simply trying to....." The general excuse/escape for forum use....
This is all I have to say:
Does anything else need to be said?
NO! BTW the tab on the left side of the bb is for a flotter.
Faux bar was just a term Specialized's marketing department made up to make their competitors bikes sound worse. They're still four bars, as Hacktastic said- 3 parts attached to a main frame actuating a shock.
This is obviously just a disagreement of terminology, we both get how a Kona's linkage works. Yes, it is a linkage actuated single pivot, but it does so with 4 main structural elements, the front triangle, chainstays, seat stays, and the rocker.
From the wikipedia page on a four bar linkage:
This isn't a page specific to bikes, but the point remains. A Kona, for example, is still a four bar linkage bike, per the definition of a four bar linkage.