[Low_b]

Low b, if you sent a product back to Craig at Avalanche for warranty which had JB weld on the afflicted area, my best guess says that he'd say "no way" to you as well. If you've got that much experience with riding and with gear, you shouldn't have been surprised by Marzocchi's reaction to and denial of your warranty claim.

That's just the way it works with any manufacturer, even if you haven't ridden it in that condition. They just can't be sure and/or take your word for it. I (and even they) understand your desire to get another day out of it as a rider, but you have to understand their position as a manufacturer.

The repairs without consent, well, I can see where you'd be ticked about that...but that's something to address to Marzo privately, I'm sure you'll agree.

You left that really, really important detail about the JB weld out of your initial post, and I don't think that's fair to either those of us on the board OR Marzocchi.

MD

I did not leave this part out when dealing with Marz.
If they came to me and said "Due to your repair this not warrantied" that would be ok.
But the reason they gave is that my wheel was not in the fork correctly.
I know it was.
Today I spoke with at least 3 different people at Marz. 2 were quite freindly and one was lets just say not, but they all kept passing me off. None said the reason there wasnt a warrenty was due to my repair.
It seemed to come down to that they felt there was nothing wrong with the lowers and I had done something to them..Ie having the wheel in wrong.

 

[Brian Peterson]

Brian,

We have taken care of the bill and I have paid it...I'm just hoping they get it sent out soon.

I didnt mean for this thread to get out of hand but I've heard so many wonderful experiences with marz cs. I've used the forks for years and never had to use CS. The one time I do it was just such a terrible experience, I'm way let down.

In all honesty the fork probably will not be mounted to my bike again.

Thanks and sorry to mess up your day,

Bryan

Bryan,
If it has already been billed and has left, contact me with the invoice info when you get it. I'll look into making it a little less painful on the money side of it. At least that will make it a little easier for the purchase of your next fork, regardless of the brand.

Sorry about your less than satisfactory experience with our product and service.

Brian

 

[SDH]

I am not attempting to say it is a warranty issue or not but just to let you know FYI about a number of ways that lower could crack.

1) Over tightening the pinch bolt. Aside from using the correct torgue specs, what you would normally consider tight (stem bolts etc.) is too tight and will crack the castings.

2) if you do not seat the pinch bolt properly when you put your wheel on a gap is created and the torque of the wheel will cause that area to fail.

3) Putting the bike down on its forks (standing it up without the wheel on it), this will be compounded if your bud comes along and presses on your fork in this position to see "how plush it is"

4) Leaving the thru axle interface loose which leads to movement and can crack the casting.

By looking at the cross section of the piece that cracked you could reveal if there was a flaw in the casting.

Just some insights

 

[Low_b]

Bryan,
If it has already been billed and has left, contact me with the invoice info when you get it. I'll look into making it a little less painful on the money side of it. At least that will make it a little easier for the purchase of your next fork, regardless of the brand.

Sorry about your less than satisfactory experience with our product and service.

Brian

Thanks Brian, I appreciate the offer.

 

[Low_b]

I am not attempting to say it is a warranty issue or not but just to let you know FYI about a number of ways that lower could crack.

1) Over tightening the pinch bolt. Aside from using the correct torgue specs, what you would normally consider tight (stem bolts etc.) is too tight and will crack the castings.

2) if you do not seat the pinch bolt properly when you put your wheel on a gap is created and the torque of the wheel will cause that area to fail.

3) Putting the bike down on its forks (standing it up without the wheel on it), this will be compounded if your bud comes along and presses on your fork in this position to see "how plush it is"

4) Leaving the thru axle interface loose which leads to movement and can crack the casting.

By looking at the cross section of the piece that cracked you could reveal if there was a flaw in the casting.

Just some insights

Thanks for the

 

[Transcend]

Brian P is mr disaster recovery. You rule.

As for Low B, it doesn't really matter what they told you the reason was, you voided the warranty. It may very well have been a casting issue, but now no one will ever know.

Fixing it without telling you however, wasn't super cool, i will admit.

 

[binary visions]

Bryan (low_b), I think it's a little unpleasant of you to be airing your customer support stories here without supplying the background to the story, or even the resolution of it. It's important that we all here about good and bad customer support since that goes into a lot of purchasing decisions, but it's just as important that the stories contain all of the relevant facts, and the final outcome.

I think your story would have sounded a whole lot different if all of the information in this thread were contained in that initial post. "My fork broke because of a manufacturing defect and they won't warrenty it. When I asked for my lowers back, they won't send them!" sounds a lot different when you throw in the fact that you sent it back to them covered in epoxy from a home remedy. They don't want to be held responsible for either your attempts to fix it, or what might happen if you try to ride it.

Good luck with your fork, it sounds like Brian is trying to work with you on the situation.

Brian P: As usual, your responses are exemplary. I have no idea what the rest of the Marz. CS department is like, never having dealt with them, but you've calmly defused what was otherwise a nasty thread, and your responses were well worded and inoffensive, as they always are. I hope they pay you well.

 

[Brian Peterson]

Thanks for the kind words guys...

Normally, Ronnie is very professional when it comes to handling situations like this. As many of you know, he is the man when it comes to knowing what's up on our product. He is also usually one of the first people to help a fellow rider. However, I don't know the exact nature of the phone call other than it seems there are people on both sides of the phone who weren't happy with the situation.

Brian

 

[Sherpa]

Admin edit: warning - don't start the flame fest.

 

[Low_b]

Bryan (low_b), I think it's a little unpleasant of you to be airing your customer support stories here without supplying the background to the story, or even the resolution of it. It's important that we all here about good and bad customer support since that goes into a lot of purchasing decisions, but it's just as important that the stories contain all of the relevant facts, and the final outcome.

I think your story would have sounded a whole lot different if all of the information in this thread were contained in that initial post. "My fork broke because of a manufacturing defect and they won't warrenty it. When I asked for my lowers back, they won't send them!" sounds a lot different when you throw in the fact that you sent it back to them covered in epoxy from a home remedy. They don't want to be held responsible for either your attempts to fix it, or what might happen if you try to ride it.

Good luck with your fork, it sounds like Brian is trying to work with you on the situation.

Brian P: As usual, your responses are exemplary. I have no idea what the rest of the Marz. CS department is like, never having dealt with them, but you've calmly defused what was otherwise a nasty thread, and your responses were well worded and inoffensive, as they always are. I hope they pay you well.

I'm sorry if you dont like my rant oh well.
Before posting here I TRIED to handle this civily with CS.
After being insulted I decided to let out my steam.

Again.
I did not send them a fork covered in epoxy.
The breaks were clear as day. There were small as was the application of JB.
To the end fact that it looks like I may have voided the warranty, I still do not know what caused the initial failure.
The way this was handled is what I'm pissed about. The things that were said and told to me by Marz reps.
If when I first called and asked for an RA and was told I had voided my warranty there'd be no post. If when i spoke to Cs I was told I voided my warranty by trying a repair, there'd be no post.
I WAS told that the fork had no issue and I must have done something wrong to it.
When I then tried to explain that I've seen other similar issues with castings and that if he search through ridemonkey he'd find similar posts, he responded that that the users or RM were "idiots and didnt know what they were talking about". I then thanked him for insulting me and ended our conversation.
There's why i'm pissed and what this post stemmed from.
Hell even if they did warranty it but treated me the way they did I'd STILL be pissed.

And then telling me they would break my fork worse if i wanted it back doesnt sit well with me either.

 

[bomberboy11]

Low b - Whether you tried to epoxy it or not or whatever you did, there was still an initial product failure (which on that model and year was VERY common). Marzocchi should be owning up to it 100% knowing full well what a widespread problem this was. It would be "weasel-y" to say the least if they were to try to get out of helping out a customer at all based on a small technicality if there was already a blatant failure in their product. I have seen 5 forks of the same model break in the same spot in under 4 months of being purchased new, and all the people riding them definetely knew what they were doing (I ride one now and I'm just wondering how long it's going to be before I break it). There is a reason they only used that system for a year - their warranty all sent the broken forks back with the black '04 Super T lowers or the '05 Junior T lowers with the double pinch bolts on each side, which is kind of inconsistent, but in the past they have given the customers new lowers with no questions asked. Anything less than that in my mind is unacceptable. For something small like that (<$500) you could possibly have a case in small claims court. Find a lawyer who offers a free consultation just to see what your options are, if any. If you have something to roll with, make Marzocchi aware of it before you actually do anything. If not, take the blow, buy an Avalanche DHF-7ti (if you have the capability, do it, you wont regret it, it'll probably be the last fork you need).

Good to see someone on this board is helping you out though. It will be interesting to see if we find out what was going on with them trying hold your fork hostage. I know there are definetely good people in the Marzocchi service department from my own experience, but as with everything there are a few bad apples too. Hope you come to some kind of compromise with them.

 

[Brian Peterson]

I spoke to the warranty department, and it looks like after the conversation with your wife, it looks like they covered about 75% of the repair costs. Looks like that lower cost you less than what it would cost me...

As for the sending back an unridable fork, this is not an uncommon practice. If a fork is sent back to you that is damaged, but rideable and further injuries result, we could be held liable.

Brian

 

[webeskankin3]

all of this over a cracked fork. this stuff happens, its not that rare if forks break. just get it fixed and u will b on ur way

 

[Low_b]

I spoke to the warranty department, and it looks like after the conversation with your wife, it looks like they covered about 75% of the repair costs. Looks like that lower cost you less than what it would cost me...

As for the sending back an unridable fork, this is not an uncommon practice. If a fork is sent back to you that is damaged, but rideable and further injuries result, we could be held liable.

Brian

Thanks for the info.
But as far as breaking my fork more thats unacceptable.
That would be like me taking my car to the dealer for a brake job and finding out I cant afford it so I decide to wait, but the dealer says no I'm gonna total your car if you dont have it fixed by us now.

That leaves me worse off. To being able to take it to a shop who may have a set of lowers who can repair them and do a quality job, as I have quite a few friends who work at shops.

All in all Brian I appreciate your professionalism. If I would have recieved this from Ron and a few more details on how this whole process works, I would not be here right now.

 

[Sherpa]

Admin edit: warning - don't start the flame fest.

:mumble:

 

[BMXman]

Am I the only one that thinks Low b is being a little unreasonable? You JB welded a fork and you have how many years experience working on bikes???? Then you get mad because Marzocchi won't send it back to you in it's current state because they'll be liable...maybe this board is full of idiots!

 

[Low_b]

Am I the only one that thinks Low b is being a little unreasonable? You JB welded a fork and you have how many years experience working on bikes???? Then you get mad because Marzocchi won't send it back to you in it's current state because they'll be liable...maybe this board is full of idiots!

Dude, its not about my repair.
Read my posts please!!..

But you are right it's silly as hell but I wanted to try and ride at N* the first weekend..I know you know what thats like..

But either way I'm sorry I ruffled so many of you guys feathers.
I had a bad experience with a company today, came and vented...Sorry.

 

[Brian Peterson]

Thanks for the info.
But as far as breaking my fork more thats unacceptable.
That would be like me taking my car to the dealer for a brake job and finding out I cant afford it so I decide to wait, but the dealer says no I'm gonna total your car if you dont have it fixed by us now.

That leaves me worse off. To being able to take it to a shop who may have a set of lowers who can repair them and do a quality job, as I have quite a few friends who work at shops.

All in all Brian I appreciate your professionalism. If I would have recieved this from Ron and a few more details on how this whole process works, I would not be here right now.

Like I said, I agree that the situation should have been handled better on our end. That is why I am here right now.

Brian

 

[Low_b]

Like I said, I agree that the situation should have been handled better on our end. That is why I am here right now.

Brian

Again I appreciate your efforts Brian. Thanks man!!
This is over, my fork should be back to me soon.

Mods can do what they want with this thread...Again sorry for stirring things up..I just needed to vent.

Thanks,

Bryan

 

[Spunger]

It's posts like this that make me wonder what I'd do if something ever failed and caused such horrific problems that I couldn't ride. I doubt the first thing would be to discuss my questionable "warrenty" claim on a message board in which the product is highly respected and people from the company are on here. You know how many times people break things the day before they leave for a trip or a few days into it? It's not "life or death".

I'm not gonna beat up on this, but there's plenty of guys with 20+ years experience at whatever they do and just because it's 20+ years doesn't mean they're still a hack. You used JB weld to attempt to fix a $1000 fork in a spot that requires you to replace it with any breaks period. It's not like you JB welded the M arch on the fork, but the lowers where the pinchbolts are and such. I'm pretty stupid too (as my title says) but JB weld, or Epoxy of any sort would be the last thing I'd do.

The CS guys on the phone are only as good as you are to them. If you're like "crap your sucky fork broke on me and now I have to wait for it" then they know what type of person you are. They are call "customer service" for a reason. That's what type of crap they have to deal with. If you were like "man, I dunno what happened, I was looking over everything and found these hair line cracks" and such, kept cool, and explained everything from the start none of this would have happened. A CS guy doesn't care if he has to warrenty it or charge you for lowers. If it's clear you did something wrong and it's your fault man up and pay for it. Instead you trash the product, trash the CS guy, and got extremly LUCKY that an employee on here has the brains to try and make this right. It's not like your opinion on this would have stopped the masses on buying zocchi forks, but just so you know to have a post on the internet, and have the company working with you is about as great of a CS department will get. Anything in the Bike related world is far and between in the CS departments. Some are great, some suck giant........well you know

It states in bold writting in every owners manual known to man, don't alter it in any way or you Void the warrenty. It's almost like common sense. It is common sense.

It was about time the boards were due for something like this. It's been a while since a problem has come up with a product. I'm just glad that it got shot down quickly before too long. Glad to know it all worked out positive in the end.

 

[mtbpaint1]

my fork blew up (stantions came out of the lowers) and i needed it back a week and a half after i shipped it. UPS lost the fork so Marzocchi called them told them to get their act together and got them to find it (this was two days before i needed it) they got it in their hands the day before i needed it spent extra time to replace the cartridges and rod (free of charge even though it was kind of my fault) and sent it back to me next day shipping free of any charge......now thats awesome CS

maybe he was in a bad mood..or maybe you were because they wont do sh*t for you enless your nice

 

[Macrider]

Thanks for your insight..But as I said Marz said I didnt over tighten..Which I didnt..They are saying my wheel was not in the fork properly. Thats Bs.

I'm glad you've had great experiences with your forks. Up until this one so have I.

Do Not tell me how I maintain my gear. Last time I checked we have never met, so you making assumptions about me is rediculious.

I've been wrenching on bikes, cars and motorcycles for over 25 years and if I broke something I would just pay to have it fixed. In this case I DID NOT!!!

so after this whole fun-fest - one important element comes out that you failed to mention (in my assumptions about you that are soooo rediculious) - that is your little adventure with JB Weld - in your 25 years of repairing stuff, did you ever read a warranty? NOBODY allows you to start messing around with attempted home-fixes and honors a warranty

and yet, STILL they are coming through for you....I love it...Marz. customer service DOES rock!

 

[bomberboy11]

There is something to be said for trying to work with CS people, even if it is a total part failure. Mountain bike manufacturing is a small industry run mostly by motivated people putting in lots of hours so they can work in this industry. It requires a lot of time on their part and they likely wont take to it well if someone expects them to go beyond what their normal duties are with a sh!tty attitude. Everybody is pissed that their parts break, but being rude and demanding to customer cervice people gets you nowhere (not saying you were, I don't know what went on, but it sounds like that's how the guy took it and decided to retaliate, which isn't the most mature thing to do on his part either). CS is only there to work with the customer, not to appease their every whim. They are not the ones personally who designed the product or produced it (usually, not the case with smaller companies but it is with Marzocchi). The last thing they want to deal with is a demanding and ornery customer who is still probably going to wind up badmouthing them after their product is restored (a big part of CS/warranty is preserving the companies reputation and making their products a "safe buy" for just-in-case scenarios). Serving this person does nothing for the company, just satisfies one customer. I admit it, I've been PISSED that I've broken parts and gone off on the manufacturer or CS big time, and it's gotten me nowhere at all when I probably would have gotten a little bit of help out of them on a replacement. If you come off sounding like they're doing you a huge favor by investing their time and parts to make you a happy customer and will have good things to say about them in the future, they will likely be more than willing to help you and overlook some details to get the good word about them out. Good thing you found an employee or associate on here to talk to reasonably, who was probably taking the time out of his day off to get this resolved for you - I think you owe this Brian fellow a big thanks. Hopefully he can also relay some of the things revealed in this thread back to Marzocchi CS about their behavior towards you. I don't know exactly what was said back and forth, but I don't think either end had any justification for getting that heated about it. Glad you did get your fork dealt with though. And as for this Brian guy - - nothing like taking a personal interest in a customer and solving their problem publicly for good PR.

 

[frorider]

fascinatin' thread. props to brian p for stepping in w/ a calm, constructive tone.

in all kinds of industries--bike, car, whatever--i've had something break, gone into a shop (or attempted warranty service) and had 'em say "Nope, we can't fix it (or Sorry you can't afford that repair). Here you go, take it home, but in so doing you are recognizing that in my professional view it is unusable and therefore I take no liability for what you may do with it." As someone pointed out above, if every company followed what marzocchi supposedly does in these circumstances, none of us would ever take a car into a shop for brake or suspension work, for fear of becoming an extortion victim.

As for the JB weld issue, let's think of another example. say you're on a big long ride, and miles from home your chainstay cracks straight thru, and being a self-sufficient group you splint the frame and wrap with layers of duct tape and carefully, slowly ride home. Once home you peel off the duct tape, and initiate the warranty replacement discussion w/ [cough] Intense [cough] or whatever. then Intense says Hell no, you apparently wrapped duct tape on there and attempted a field repair, so we can't know exactly what the history is on that crack, therefore no warranty dude. wtf?

personally i would never attempt a jb weld fix but i guess it comes down to whether the repair job itself obscured any possible analysis of why the original failure happened.

my experiences with Marz. customer service have been highly variable. i recall with much fondness (not) a Z1 bomber from years ago that during it's first year never broke in and felt plush. LBS kept on saying 'give it time'. eventually sent it in to marz via the LBS, and apparently some seals weren't seated correctly. marz charged me $$ to get it fixed, despite the bike shop saying it had been that way from the start.

perhaps i should have posted a rant, and then brian p woulda stepped in.

course this was years and years ago...

 

[Brian Peterson]

Being a former warranty guy with my former employer, I can tell you it is not a fun job.

However, we do take pride in our CS record. Most people will tell you we have great CS. I say most, because you can please everybody. Much like with our products, we continue to take steps to be the best in the industry. This situation today has already had me in a couple of meetings that will result in some tweaks to the program here.

Like I said before, I don't know the whole story. But remember, chances are anytime you call somebody in a CS position, there is a good chance they just had their ass chewed by someone. If you catch that person at the wrong time, well ugliness like this results. The person on the other end is human, too... As they say, do unto others.... Most of the time you will find yourself getting a much better end result. I am not saying this as an excuse for bad handling of a situation, but of a tip on you can make things a little easier if you find yourself dealing with any CS issue with pretty much any company.

Brian

 

[lovebunny]

can the original poster please delete this thread?

 

[blt2ride]

I spoke to the warranty department, and it looks like after the conversation with your wife, it looks like they covered about 75% of the repair costs. Looks like that lower cost you less than what it would cost me...

As for the sending back an unridable fork, this is not an uncommon practice. If a fork is sent back to you that is damaged, but rideable and further injuries result, we could be held liable.

Brian

Yeah, no company in their right mind would send a damaged product back to a customer to get hurt on...that's too much of a liability. GT has my friend's DHi frame, that has a cracked swingarm. GT said $900 for a crash replacement, and my friend said keep it...

Hey, anyone want a DHi, I can get you one for $1000

 

[Zark]

Can someone toss this aborted fetus of a thread in the trash? Seriously, its starting to smell.

 

[chicodude]

However, we do take pride in our CS record. Most people will tell you we have great CS.

I would second that. Nothng but good experience with you guys.

 

[Brian Peterson]

in all kinds of industries--bike, car, whatever--i've had something break, gone into a shop (or attempted warranty service) and had 'em say "Nope, we can't fix it (or Sorry you can't afford that repair). Here you go, take it home, but in so doing you are recognizing that in my professional view it is unusable and therefore I take no liability for what you may do with it." As someone pointed out above, if every company followed what marzocchi supposedly does in these circumstances, none of us would ever take a car into a shop for brake or suspension work, for fear of becoming an extortion victim.

This is a discussion that we have had with our lawyers... As an auto mechanic, if I note on the repair order that something needs to be fixed and the customer can not or will not fix it, I can send them on the way. If further damages result from that customers choice to not fix it at that time, I told them and I have a signed and dated copy of a repair order that states the customer knew. (Before entering the bike biz, I spent a few years working on cars in the family business.) Our lawyers have told us we can not do something like this. I am guessing because since 99% of the time, the customer is not available to sign the paperwork. So if something was to happen, it becomes a "Well, I never got anything stating that..." type of situation.

Brian

 

[Brian Peterson]

can the original poster please delete this thread?

I don't know... There are actually some very good points hidden in here...

Brian

 

[blt2ride]

Well, I can tell you that I have Marzocchi products on my DH bike and my DJ bike, and I have nothing but good things to say about the products and service...Marzocchi rules! I had to say it!

 

[Dusty Bottoms]

Can someone toss this aborted fetus of a thread in the trash? Seriously, its starting to smell.

No way! This is the greatest thread of 05! It should be made sticky!

I'm gonna go home and jb weld some stuff ASAP! Brian, expect a warranty call from me on Monday!

 

[Brian Peterson]

No way! This is the greatest thread of 05! It should be made sticky!

I'm gonna go home and jb weld some stuff ASAP! Brian, expect a warranty call from me on Monday!

Sure thing... I'll put you on eternal hold... Please wait patently...

Brian

 

[frorider]

This is a discussion that we have had with our lawyers... As an auto mechanic, if I note on the repair order that something needs to be fixed and the customer can not or will not fix it, I can send them on the way. If further damages result from that customers choice to not fix it at that time, I told them and I have a signed and dated copy of a repair order that states the customer knew. (Before entering the bike biz, I spent a few years working on cars in the family business.) Our lawyers have told us we can not do something like this. I am guessing because since 99% of the time, the customer is not available to sign the paperwork. So if something was to happen, it becomes a "Well, I never got anything stating that..." type of situation.

Brian

yeah I was thinking about how you'd get a signature. Fax perhaps.

 

[Brian Peterson]

That is a possibilty, but not everyone has easy access to a fax machine. I still deal with shops that don't have fax machines... Ultimately, it would probably come down to a waiver having to be sent out, signed, and returned and the whole process being delayed while this goes on...

Brian

 

[frorider]

what's with the e-tradition of always wanting CS related threads to be deleted once the problem is solved? 9 times out of 10 those threads contain interesting information about common problems with a product, and how the company steps up. in fact if handled correctly they usually end up making the company in question look pretty good--and provide riders with tips on how to approach a company and get satisfaction.

i'm not pointing any fingers, but sometimes i get the sense that we're in communist china and there's a party line that brands x, y, z 'totally rule' and therefore we can't have anything negative said about them, therefore threads must be deleted.

the standard response to this is 'well the complaints didn't tell the whole story' blah blah blah. to which i reply--that's the point of a thread, it eventually does tell the whole story. there's a difference between a post and a thread.

 

[Rabie]

Am I the only one that thinks Low b is being a little unreasonable? You [improperly] JB welded a fork and you have how many years experience working on bikes????

Seriously. I guess you can have all the experience in the world and still be a hack with the JB weld. I mean I've only been working on bikes for a fraction of that time, and all my JB welds are still holding strong. Sheesh.

 

[dhtahoe]

Man... You ride smooth and mellow. Can't see how this happened... Oh yeah you bought a fork that has now been redesigned because they tend to fail there. But don't listen to me I'm on ridemonkey and MUST be an idiot. This industry is going down the tubes for one reason. They don't take care of people!!! Did they give you the "we have NEVER heard of that EVER happening" crap.

 

[dhtahoe]

Bryan,
A majority of the time, a break in that area is a result of an axle not set in the dropout properly. If the fork was sent to us prior to your attempted repair and a casting flaw was found, you would have a valid warranty claim. But, of the breaks in that area, very few have been found to be defective.

As for the repair being done prior to calling you, I feel you have valid complaint there. I will address this issue further with the tech department. Perhaps a compromise can be reached in light of this.

Brian

I call BS I have seen MANY snap right off the first time they contact a rock. If there was never an issue with the QR 20 then why did it go away??? I have also seen my share of 888's that were leaking in random thin spots in there casting. This is why I bought a 40 and not a 888 this year. You may think Low B is some nobody idiot , but I can say that HE CAN influence what people are/are not buying in our area at least. He is one of those local riders that has been doing it for sooooooooooooo long that people ask him what he rides, why he likes it, and why he chose THAT product. I recommend to the powers that be you get him a fixed fork ASAP. He is just another rider getting REAL sick of spending his hard earned money on poorly designed crap that companies don't stand behind. Way too much of that going on in cycling. Perfect example: Durado X-Works. Totally hyped forever and when it came down to it the thing was such a piece of crap they had to get them all back to avoid negitive feedback.