[dilzy]

I'm sure this has been iterated, but why in god's name do Manitou insist on a USD design?

They have barely perceptable unsprung weight advantages, they can NEVER be as torsionally stiff as a conventional design for the same weight.

As they don't have any supporting structure between the axle and the crown, the moment on the outers is far greater as the lever arm is the axle to crown distance instead of the axle to arch distance.

The axle mounts are also invariably heavier as they are a seperate bolt on item, not integrated into a one piece casting.

The inner stantions are more vulnerable, which is especially a problem when bike company's insist on using a coating to reduce friction without thinking about something a littler more durable like a hard chrome.

All manitou has to do is stick their TPC+ damper into a conventional fork with a normal arch (just because your arch is a bit shorter and stiffer doesn't mean the extra 2" of lower and stantion aren't an issue idiots), some 35mm stantions that are coated in a DLC compound and bring the weight under 7lb with a steel coil and people would flock. We don't need extremely light forks, we need quality of damping and construction with reasonable maintainance periods (think 80ml in each leg instead of 10).

 

[Iridemtb]

We don't need extremely light forks, we need quality of damping and construction with reasonable maintainance periods (think 80ml in each leg instead of 10).

If your paying this amount of cash bro, you probably get it all...

 

[ianjenn]

If your paying this amount of cash bro, you probably get it all...

Seals good for 2 years and 6 month service periods is all I ask. Oh also be as stiff as a 2001 Monter T please? Is it really that hard.

 

[sikocycles]

I just hope a 29" wheel fits. Thats all i ask

 

[Sandwich]

Lol, it's more likely than a standard fork. You may have to shorten the travel to 7", but from what BCD experimented with, lowering the travel was less of an issue compared to smaller wheels.

As for Dilzy's comments:
I think there will continue to be a market for USD forks just because they are different, for one thing. I disagree with your comment about stantion vulnerability; I put one nick in my Avy fork after two years, and that was from an errant pedal when removing the bike from a gondola. My Boxxer WC has been put through the ringer on each stantion.

USD forks also have the advantage of seals that push dirt away and down, rather than up, against gravity. You talk about robust designs; that in itself will reduce maintenance intervals.

I hadn't thought about the integrated axle casting....that's a very good point. USD forks need extra large axles to approach the stiffness of standard forks...a la Foes/Curnutt....but I would also argue that ultimate stiffness is not necessarily the goal, vs. adequate turning accuracy and appropriate lateral compliance.

I would certainly rock one of these if it didn't cost an arm and a leg...and it looks like the weight on the alu version is not far from the carbon one. I just hope it comes in prettier colors.

 

[yuroshek]

I have been on my dorado for 7 months of constant riding. I have not yet had a feeling of where the fork flexed and i didn't turn. If that makes sense. I feel very comfortable on the dorado and I love it, works very well.

The graphics on that dorado pictured above are not the 2010 graphics those are the 2009 ones. We were throwin around ideas of colors so we will see what manitou comes out with.

 

[Metal Dude]

Yeah I agree Dennis the Dorado isn't flexy when ridden, it's supreme butta!
Put the front wheel against a wall and yeah, the fork is flexyer than an upright fork.
Put it on the trail and it tracks better and goes where I want it to -
better than any other fork I have ridden!
Way adjustable and just performs! If you haven't ridden this fork you should keep opinions on reserve!

 

[IH8Rice]

The graphics on that dorado pictured above are not the 2010 graphics those are the 2009 ones. We were throwin around ideas of colors so we will see what manitou comes out with.

good cause they look kinda cheesy

 

[Huck Banzai]

Yeah I agree Dennis the Dorado isn't flexy when ridden, it's supreme butta!
Put the front wheel against a wall and yeah, the fork is flexyer than an upright fork.
Put it on the trail and it tracks better and goes where I want it to -
better than any other fork I have ridden!
Way adjustable and just performs! If you haven't ridden this fork you should keep opinions on reserve!

Stick it next to a shiver noodle and it'll seem stiffer. (RE the original Dorado, which everyone I knew who had one LOVED the performance, but finicky and for some reason everyone seemed to bust the right leg fork guard.)

 

[IH8Rice]

damn, $1760 MSRP isnt too bad in the grand scheme of things and same specs as the carbon

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/manitou-my-11-dorado-2009.html

 

[dump]

$1800 for a fork? Maybe I'm out of touch, or just cheap, but that's a LOT of f'ing money. No thanks.

 

[dump]

And what's with the graphics lately. Looking quite a bit like moto. If/when I get back into DH, I'm going the no logos route... maybe a couple tasteful ones here or there.

 

[Sandwich]

You are out of touch. Every top level fork costs ridiculous amounts of money now and manipoo thinks by pricing theirs above everybody else, they'll get more customers. I guess I don't understand economics or business practices.

 

[IH8Rice]

$1800 for a fork? Maybe I'm out of touch, or just cheap, but that's a LOT of f'ing money. No thanks.

boxxer WC-$1700
888 WC-$1660 (2009)
seems to be on par with the other top of the line forks

And what's with the graphics lately. Looking quite a bit like moto. If/when I get back into DH, I'm going the no logos route... maybe a couple tasteful ones here or there.

Please note that the graphics that you see on this fork are NOT the final graphics that will hit stores in the coming months*

 

[djivotno]

Humm i wonder with the return of the USD race forks when will there be a bushing system like the Showa's Moto forks with one bushing on the upper and the other on the lower tubes... i think then i'd concider spending 2000$ on a USD fork

 

[Kanye West]

Humm i wonder with the return of the USD race forks when will there be a bushing system like the Showa's Moto forks with one bushing on the upper and the other on the lower tubes... i think then i'd concider spending 2000$ on a USD fork

That's what I'm wondering too. Thing is, it's really expensive to have the inner surface of the outer tube machined and polished up nice enough for a bushing to glide against. I love the way you can do seal/bushing changes super easily on the moto forks.

I could only hope it felt like my twin-chamber Showas...

 

[Jm_]

Humm i wonder with the return of the USD race forks when will there be a bushing system like the Showa's Moto forks with one bushing on the upper and the other on the lower tubes... i think then i'd concider spending 2000$ on a USD fork

My old 1999 Monster T had a dynamic bushing mounted on the stanchion. This would silde against the fork lowers. I extended the fork half an inch to give it the axle-to-crown of a 200mm fork, but the dynamic bushing made me feel ok with the mod and retaining enough overlap.

 

[dump]

Ok, I don't doubt the cost of other top of the line forks, having been away from things for a while, this seems like a stupid amount of money to pay for a fork. People actually pay that amount?

 

[Jm_]

Ok, I don't doubt the cost of other top of the line forks, having been away from things for a while, this seems like a stupid amount of money to pay for a fork. People actually pay that amount?

Hell no, we wait until they show up on Ebay for 1/2 retail.

 

[dump]

Hell no, we wait until they show up on Ebay for 1/2 retail.

nice.

 

[norbar]

Hell no, we wait until they show up on Ebay for 1/2 retail.

It's funny as I don't know anyone who pays retail for the big stuff in their bikes. Is there really people who do but they are mythical beings living on a sacred mountain and worshipping trees or sth?

 

[FlyinPolack]

There is no way in hell that ANY manipoo will EVER be the best fork out there. Therefore it shouldn't be the most money, EVER.

Just wait until you guys get 1/2 of a season on them & they leave you bumming in the race venue parking lot...

Their bad reputation was not a gift. It was earned, big time..

 

[norbar]

There is no way in hell that ANY manipoo will EVER be the best fork out there. Therefore it shouldn't be the most money, EVER.

Just wait until you guys get 1/2 of a season on them & they leave you bumming in the race venue parking lot...

Their bad reputation was not a gift. It was earned, big time..

There is no way Iron Horse will make a top notch dh bike, their reputation was not a gift. It was earned, big time.

 

[FlyinPolack]

There is no way Iron Horse will make a top notch dh bike, their reputation was not a gift. It was earned, big time.

They didn't, DW did

 

[Sandwich]

Hell no, we wait until they show up on Ebay for 1/2 retail.

damn true. I buy all my **** used. The only thing I'd consider buying new would be a zerode or superco. The zerode simply because nobody else will have one, the superco because it's a friggin superco.

As far as the ironhorse comment, they never made a superb DH bike. They had a crappy bike with a good suspension design, but the bike itself was not top level. To compare the craftsmanship of the sunday to other frames....eh.

I hope the durdado lives up to the hype. I would love another USD fork. Sadly, I'm too content with my "just a boxxer" to shell out 4 times its value for a manitou.

 

[norbar]

damn true. I buy all my **** used. The only thing I'd consider buying new would be a zerode or superco. The zerode simply because nobody else will have one, the superco because it's a friggin superco.

As far as the ironhorse comment, they never made a superb DH bike. They had a crappy bike with a good suspension design, but the bike itself was not top level. To compare the craftsmanship of the sunday to other frames....eh.

I hope the durdado lives up to the hype. I would love another USD fork. Sadly, I'm too content with my "just a boxxer" to shell out 4 times its value for a manitou.

I'm not speaking about craftmanship but about the performance of that bike. When it came out the susp and the geo was really superb. I'd choose performance anytime over crazy good finish and little quirks that small companies make.

 

[Udi]

I'm so confused. Don't you ride (and presumably like?) a sunday, sandwich?

I'm not even sure how it got dragged into this discussion, but I along with a few people I know have been abusing the hell out of 07+ sunday frames for a fair while now, and so far they've been excellent. Nailed geo and acceleration unlike most others at a reasonably low weight and price... not quite sure why it would come up in a manitou thread. :/

 

[Sandwich]

I apologize for even turning the discussion that way....it was morning...had no coffee...etc.

To defend my point of view, it's not that the frame doesn't perform well or wasn't designed well; I agree that the thing rides fantastically and the fit of the bike is natural, like it was designed for me. I just feel that the quality of the bike, the overall build, materials, paint, a few other things, are not up to what I think of when I hear "Best in the world". Perhaps I am biased- I came off a Brooklyn Racelink, which fit me like a BMX, but was constructed with superb attention to detail and never, in the time that I owned it, did I worry about bearings or rattles or anything. Not so much with the IH, and the bolt tolerances, and the loc-tite, and the bearing sleeves, etc.

Anyways, my point is not that the sunday is a bad bike. Perhaps it would make more sense if I said the DHR-DW will likely combine the craftsmanship that the IH Sunday was lacking with a well thought out chassis that it already had. Does that make more sense?

 

[Jm_]

damn true. I buy all my **** used.

Well, not even used, but I hear you on that. Boxxer Teams were going for 500-600 new in box. I got a 888 WC for $600 new in box. If you're patient and wait, then you can usually find new or barely used stuff pretty cheap.

There are people who can buy new stuff at retail, but I'm usually not one of those or it takes some serious long-term planning on my part.

 

[IH8Rice]

There is no way in hell that ANY manipoo will EVER be the best fork out there. Therefore it shouldn't be the most money, EVER.

Just wait until you guys get 1/2 of a season on them & they leave you bumming in the race venue parking lot...

Their bad reputation was not a gift. It was earned, big time..

their first gen Dorado's were great IMO. i had zero issues with the fork's performance and or reliability. if people take care of their parts, then it should never be a issue.
i did though have issues with their carbon fiber uppers though. after 4 years of thrashing it, i sent it in for service only to get it back from them telling me to never ride it again because of spider cracks above the aluminum inserts...but the fork still performed great.
if Manitou's employee purchase is as good as Fox's then this would be a no brainer for me

 

[Kanye West]

There is no way in hell that ANY manipoo will EVER be the best fork out there. Therefore it shouldn't be the most money, EVER.

Just wait until you guys get 1/2 of a season on them & they leave you bumming in the race venue parking lot...

Their bad reputation was not a gift. It was earned, big time..

I'm not the biggest Manitou fan around, but someone promoting Azonic products doesn't get much room to talk about companies with a crap reputation and sketchy products. They need to stick to making jerseys.

 

[Jm_]

their first gen Dorado's were great IMO. i had zero issues with the fork's performance and or reliability. if people take care of their parts, then it should never be a issue.
i did though have issues with their carbon fiber uppers though. after 4 years of thrashing it, i sent it in for service only to get it back from them telling me to never ride it again because of spider cracks above the aluminum inserts...but the fork still performed great.
if Manitou's employee purchase is as good as Fox's then this would be a no brainer for me

Those first ones were pretty bad. They used grease and not oil baths and they were famous for siezing up due to no lube (even if you have grease in there, after a while it tends to pack up in places and not get on the stanchions). They tried to fix it later with the evil genius seals, but even those seals weren't very good. The forks weren't that light either. 8.03lbs or so with the integrated stem/crown. Then there's the whole inverted thing and small stanchions. The X-vert Carbon with bigger stachions (and no cracking arches!) would have been a much better idea. Then Manitou came out with the SPV version of the dorado, which guarenteed it's demise.

The Dorado is probably one of the reasons the boxxer remained so succesfull during it's entire product-span.

 

[daday]

time to bring this up again!

anyone on 2010 dorado - in the cheaper aluminum version? they are out in europe since a few days....

how would they compare to boxxer team 2010/888 2010 as far as function goes?

 

[sikocycles]

My 29er version is on order with a ship date of 3/8/10 but there were alot of orders ahead of mine. I would say they should be shipping any day now. I also heard they are only building 150 of them. Not sure how accurate that is.

 

[yuroshek]

i raced the 2010 alum dorado this past weekend at fontana. Coming from the 2009 carbon dorado i couldnt tell the difference. fork is amazing period. there are more and more dorado's out there now which is good. im glad people are picking them up and riding them.

 

[Metal Dude]

mmmmmmmmmm good, rode mine the first time today.

 

[spocomptonrider]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Hacktastic again.

 

[daday]

i raced the 2010 alum dorado this past weekend at fontana. Coming from the 2009 carbon dorado i couldnt tell the difference. fork is amazing period. there are more and more dorado's out there now which is good. im glad people are picking them up and riding them.

if you have it for a bit longer, did you notice any difference to the carbon version with the issue of the air leaking from the positive to the negative chamber and having to bleed it constantly - i read about that in a german forum and was wondering if it was true ..

 

[xy9ine]

My 29er version is on order

cool. what bike that going on?

 

[Metal Dude]

I never had any problems what so ever with the carbon one leaking from pos. to neg.
The new system (on the aluminum version) is set up like a normal air system.
Air in the top, air out the top. So if there were problems with any that may be solved.