No bindage on this Obtainium spring
- Thread starter Kntr
- Start date
looks like shimz to me.
Bearings to allow the spring ends to rotate in relation to each other, something they do naturally as the spring compresses.
He certainly went over and above with that design, I thought they would be something more like delrin bushings...
He certainly went over and above with that design, I thought they would be something more like delrin bushings...
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nice looking product. the same should be standard on the compression end of the shock hardware.
That's typically how it's done.
Combine that with a needle bearing in the eyelet at one end of the shock, and a spherical bearing in the other end, and then you have a proper zero-bind setup.
Neato.
Not to get all weight weeny and $hit, but what's the comparable weight of the Obtanium kit vs. the exact steel spring?
Not to get all weight weeny and $hit, but what's the comparable weight of the Obtanium kit vs. the exact steel spring?
Yeah, sort of seems like overkill, but at the same time, a pretty slick looking setup. I like. How much does a set run?
Thats the first thing that popped in my brain.
Does anyone else running an Obtanium with the plastic reducers get a squeaking sound as the shock cycles ? Sounds like a small animal being tortured. I'm not sure if that's the source on my bike , but I suspect it is. If so , this bearing setup could be the solution.
I'm keen to eliminate the squeaking , any input appreciated. Cheers.
I'm keen to eliminate the squeaking , any input appreciated. Cheers.
cool idea probably a little bit over engineered but i like it...
I'll buy it for my next bike
I'll buy it for my next bike
If it were over-engineered, the thrust bearings would be sealed a little bettercool idea probably a little bit over engineered but i like it...
I'll buy it for my next bike
I'd try a light coating of silicone grease on the parts of the reducers that the spring contacts, usually plastic against metal is quiet though. The other thing I'd try is a spare steel spring in place of the titanium + reducers, that'd be a sure-fire way to check if the squeaking is what you think it is.
ok touchéIf it were over-engineered, the thrust bearings would be sealed a little better
Kanter, nice set up. I noticed Corsair has been running these on their Crown DH bike too.
Does anyone know if these will fit a steel spring or does it even matter? I am running a 400# Manitou Steel Spring on my Rocco WC and I can see where the spring is contacting the shock body and rubbing it. I have turned up the pre-load slightly to hold it in place better but that is a compromise since I would really like to back off the pre-load a bit. I can't afford the Ti Spring right now but I think I could benefit from this set-up.
Does anyone know if these will fit a steel spring or does it even matter? I am running a 400# Manitou Steel Spring on my Rocco WC and I can see where the spring is contacting the shock body and rubbing it. I have turned up the pre-load slightly to hold it in place better but that is a compromise since I would really like to back off the pre-load a bit. I can't afford the Ti Spring right now but I think I could benefit from this set-up.
I might be wrong but I think Manitou springs have some goofy ID. So you could buy spacers but they would be worthless with any other spring. The cheapest thing to do would be to buy a new spring from Marz or Fox. You wouldn't get the bearing set up, but it would eliminate the rub.
What good does it do if the effect is like getting a lower spring rate?
Good idea. I am going to try a 350# spring anyway. I will make it a point to get a Marzocchi spring and see if that takes care of the issue. Thanks.
I was wondering the same thing about my current set up. I have a Renton ti spring on my Fox DHX 5.0. I removed the blue bottom out adjuster knob so the outside of the spring wouldn't hit it (same thing Obtanium recommends doing with Fox shocks), but I have to put a little too much preload on the spring in order for it to stay completely centered over the shock body.
I emailed Obtanium asking about it, just waiting for a reply.
The Obtainium springs have a larger ID (1.5") than either fox (1.38") or the one size fits all springs like the original RCS (1.43"). I dont see this working with a spring smaller than 1.5" ID, unless Jim made a bearing assembly specifically for springs he does not make...
For the RCS on the fox shock, the simple fix is a pair of 25 cent slip joint washers...one at either end to keep the spring centered. Fiind them at any hardware store:
http://www.azpartsmaster.com/images/catalog/ishop/6060.jpg
For the RCS on the fox shock, the simple fix is a pair of 25 cent slip joint washers...one at either end to keep the spring centered. Fiind them at any hardware store:
http://www.azpartsmaster.com/images/catalog/ishop/6060.jpg
Thanks, I'll have to take a look around for them.
My Ti spring sqeaks like crazy on my trail bike.....grease will work until you ride in the wet. I cut part of an inner tube and put it on the end that was squeaking....not sure how long or if it will hold up...haven't ridden it yet..
Might try these things if it doesn't work....the squeaking is really loud and it is from the spring trying to unwind i guess...
They feel like a lower springrate because what you are feeling is the ACTUAL springrate - only the axial resistance instead of the torsional resistance. Between the eyelets and the spring seats and the seals of the shock, it's pretty amazing how much drag there is in these systems (and usually shocking to the user to see how little damping is going on when all of that is freed up!). The leverage on those points usually smooth it out, so it's hard to realize just how much there really is.
These are pretty popular on works kitted moto bikes. They do make a significant difference, especially in the fork action.
These are pretty popular on works kitted moto bikes. They do make a significant difference, especially in the fork action.
I would also venture a guess that the spring will be bowing a little less as a result.
I was wondering the same thing... I was always under the impression that the bowing (I prefer the term 'banana-ing') was due largely to the greater helix angle of the winding of the Ti wire (fewer coils) that causes Ti springs to do this, also, a lot more cold work goes into a Ti spring to give it it's strength, this creates a pretty drastic change in the hardness profile through the section as well. There must be some pretty crazy torional forces going on in there during compression so I wonder if these thrust bearings will help reduce that??
The spring rate does not change, friction as a result of the spring trying to constantly twist during cycling is what is reduced / eliminated.What good does it do if the effect is like getting a lower spring rate?
Be interesting to see how it performs once the suspension gets further into its stroke, a "car park test" doesn't give you the whole picture.
I am looking forward to the feedback after real world testing.
Re-set the sag properly. The rules still apply.
Even the supercross bikes only run one of the bearing things on their springs. On the 2010 crf 450 proto test bike Im looking at only has one at the top end of the spring.
Glad to see Jim has gotten the first few new rings made. He and I have had many long talks about the whole Bearing Adapter for springs. The idea behind it is to help the Shock perform better in the begging of the stroke for better traction. You will feel the most difference in the begging of the stroke than mid way or fully compressed. It is the next evolution for coil over shocks.
Good luck to him with this new design.
Cecil
Good luck to him with this new design.
Cecil
The cool thing about that is how easy it is to make your own.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#thrust-bearings/=2g846g
What would really be neat is if the collars were keyed into the shock body, ensuring all torsional movement is solely in the thrust bearing. (In the design shown, the whole spring/bearing assembly can still rotate as a whole.) That would cut down friction (though negligible) and possibly minor squeaking noises.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#thrust-bearings/=2g846g
What would really be neat is if the collars were keyed into the shock body, ensuring all torsional movement is solely in the thrust bearing. (In the design shown, the whole spring/bearing assembly can still rotate as a whole.) That would cut down friction (though negligible) and possibly minor squeaking noises.
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funny that you posted that, I was planning on going to action bearing tomorrow and picking some stuff up. I knew I saw that bearing setup somewhere.....you can see Jacey (Monster/Specialized) cleaning them in the Andorra video on the specialized website.
Thanks for the ideas Udi. I'll try a bit of grease , I haven't got a steel spring handy to swap out at the moment.
What I was really hoping for was 10 people to reply with "Yeah , mine does it and I tracked it down to the spring / spacer interface" to save me from doing the experiment.
I like the idea of the bearing mod anyway , so no doubt I'll end up modifying one of my spacers to accept a thrust bearing.
Thanks mate.
Care to explain why it would be in the beginning that you would notice the most difference? Seems like the more the spring is compressed the more it would bind, so the farther into the travel the more this would help.