According to Tim Flooks, no more 5ths as Progressive are staying with the MX market. Spares available for 3 years.
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Progressive cease MTB shock manufacture.
- Thread starter wysiwyg
- Start date
Wow - thats a surprise.
Rather than design a new shock to take on the DHX?
Well I'm about to send mine back to them for a re-build so I hope they still do a good job with it.
Well I'm about to send mine back to them for a re-build so I hope they still do a good job with it.
If true, that's pretty interesting...I wonder if they just didn't want to step up and improve the existing 5th Element series? I remember when the 5th first came out, it was the best thing since free internet porn...Then Fox finally offered the DHX, PUSH started putting platforms in older shocks, and now some folks claim you don't even want a real platform for most DH bike - ala Double Barrel and Rocco...Hell, even Manitou finally came out with the Revox to improve on the Swinger series...
Also seemed like they had a fair amount of personel turnover...Although that may be industry wide...
Oh well, it was nice while it lasted...Just glad I got a DHX on my big rigs now...
Also seemed like they had a fair amount of personel turnover...Although that may be industry wide...
Oh well, it was nice while it lasted...Just glad I got a DHX on my big rigs now...
So the UK importer of Progressive isnt official enough?
Their 5th element kicks a$$, but the 5th air has a lot to be desired.
Cool. Given the positive reviews of the double barrel, it seems like we could all benefit from MX related insights into MTB suspension, something Progressive could certainly provide if they wanted to.
Just a big heads up to you...Progressive has the MOST MX insight in the industry. Roy Turner one of the founders. He was Kawasaki's A-1, Numero Uno king of all things suspension for over a decade. He is the guy who Rock Shox hired to make their forks work. He left Rock Shox to do Progressive. If anyone in MTB has MX in their blood...and a winning pedigree...it's Roy Turner.SuboptimusPrime said:
When I used to race MX, Honda's had the smooth powerplant, but Kawasaki's handled like a stripper on a pole!
I love the internet.SuboptimusPrime said:
This stuff just gets more hilarious by the minute.
What all have you heard otherwise? Please, feel free to give us personal experiences on it.Cant Climb said:
You're not going to hear otherwise......thats the point....motomike said:
Are you hinting at something you know that I don't (ie, new shiz in the pipeline) or just agreeing with what I posted??bizutch said:
My optimism regarding the DB is not based on the internet, it's based on talking, in person, to friends with time on the shock and whose opinions I trust. It's also based on what I think are appealing features of the DB, such as two stage rebound damping, something no other shock offers.Cant Climb said:
You don't have to apologize for that man. People tend to forget that select people have been on the Double Barrel shock for a year now.SuboptimusPrime said:
Those are the people I would listen to about it as well.
The current stock shocks on the market are more than enough for 99% of the riders on the planet.
Not looking to get into big debate.
Its that time of year when people are buying new stuff, doing 2 rides on it and declaring it the best thing ever.
Not looking to get into big debate.
Its that time of year when people are buying new stuff, doing 2 rides on it and declaring it the best thing ever.
The people who probably got their shocks for free?Jeremy R said:
I here what you are saying, and I agree. But it is different when you are actually friends with the person, and he gives you honest feedback on a product.JRogers said:
But like Can't Climb said, don't expect to get that here.
Here it is more like.
"IT FEELS GREAT..........when I made 2 laps around my garage."
ok, what about it. If it was a crap shock, they wouldn't be on it anymore.
edit: nevermind, Jeremy ninja posted me.
edit: nevermind, Jeremy ninja posted me.
you wouldnt ride a crap shock if you were paid?
Ha, getting paid.wysiwyg said:
You must have DH confused with something lucrative.
you know what i mean.
i beleive the sayin is never look a gift horse in the mouth.
i beleive the sayin is never look a gift horse in the mouth.
not if it meant that by riding said crap shock I would surrender my results.wysiwyg said:
just giving background for the newbies and using your quote to catapult the knowledge.SuboptimusPrime said:
oh...and my Double Barrel is "in the pipeline".....anybody who thinks it's not way ahead of the competition should call them and get a edumucashun from Malcolm on it. Just watching it on a dyno side by side with the other brands...it doesn't heat up like they do and the damping curve is phenomenal. On the testing machine, you can see the spikes or "flaws" on the real time graph as the different shocks cycle through their travel and pack up or bind at certain points. The Double Barrel graphs out on this smooth, elegant curve.
I think Malcolm should make a video and pod-cast it so people can see the shock on the tester. It visually helps you understand how it differs from other brands.
So lets say RS come along and inform you theyre bringing out a new version of the Deluxe with all the bells and whistles, but atm its a bit craptastic, til the creases are ironed out. But if you ride it, you get Boxxers/SRAM gratis too you wouldnt?...is what im saying.
Double Barrel may be awesome.......i have no clue but i wouldnt make a judgement on it til i had several weeks on it doing flat-out runs.........
....was just being lighthearted in how people can let enthusiasm or internet Mojo cloud their opinion at times.......
....was just being lighthearted in how people can let enthusiasm or internet Mojo cloud their opinion at times.......
What is the magnitude of the 'spikes' on other models compared to the DB.......?.........are they tiny, huge or don't you really know....?bizutch said:
Frankly I'm not suprised about the news of Progressive pulling out of the market, I don't necessarily believe it, but I can see where it's a possibility.
MTB isn't really a huge market for Progressive and their profit margin on the 5th Element shocks is pretty slim, when they licensed the technology to Manitou they pretty much shot themselves in the foot and had to drop their prices to compete with Manitou in OEM pricing, which reduced their profit margin even more, I'm not sure what licensing fee they recieved but they'll continue to recieve that as long as Manitou is using their technology. Progressive's bread and butter is shiny chrome suspension for meatheads that think their motorcycle has to have every inch of their bike chromed reguardless of the cost. I've spoken to Roy Turner personally and he admitted that in the early days of Progressive they were buying a competitors shock, chrome plating it and selling it for twice the price and they couldn't get them chromed fast enough. I believe since then they've developed their own shocks that may perform better/different than their competitors but they are still making a huge profit off of the moto parts compared to MTB shocks. Unless Progressive has some new technology they can drop into the market to compete and keep their profit margins high there's really no reason to continue with their products. I'm sure Roy Turner didn't think his technology would be superior forever and neglected to update and improve his 5th element shocks, but Progressive's operation is really small, they don't have the man power to keep up with all the markets they support and the big ticket money makers will get the most support, which unfortunatley isn't MTB.
MTB isn't really a huge market for Progressive and their profit margin on the 5th Element shocks is pretty slim, when they licensed the technology to Manitou they pretty much shot themselves in the foot and had to drop their prices to compete with Manitou in OEM pricing, which reduced their profit margin even more, I'm not sure what licensing fee they recieved but they'll continue to recieve that as long as Manitou is using their technology. Progressive's bread and butter is shiny chrome suspension for meatheads that think their motorcycle has to have every inch of their bike chromed reguardless of the cost. I've spoken to Roy Turner personally and he admitted that in the early days of Progressive they were buying a competitors shock, chrome plating it and selling it for twice the price and they couldn't get them chromed fast enough. I believe since then they've developed their own shocks that may perform better/different than their competitors but they are still making a huge profit off of the moto parts compared to MTB shocks. Unless Progressive has some new technology they can drop into the market to compete and keep their profit margins high there's really no reason to continue with their products. I'm sure Roy Turner didn't think his technology would be superior forever and neglected to update and improve his 5th element shocks, but Progressive's operation is really small, they don't have the man power to keep up with all the markets they support and the big ticket money makers will get the most support, which unfortunatley isn't MTB.
also read that Manitou might be taking over Progressive mtb
http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=47909&page=2
http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=47909&page=2
This is an old rumor. 
About three months old.
About three months old.
Bizutch:
Very interesting Bizutch... I'd like to see the dyno graphs myself. Since I have a Demo 8 which requires platform damping for the suspension to be efficient when pedaling, how could I tune the DB to work with my bike? I know Herndon was running one on his Demo 8, but haven't been able to get in touch w/ anyone who helped him set up his rig...
For now, I'm getting a DHX. If the DB can be tuned to provide a good platform, I just might flip my DHX next year in favor of the DB.
... I can't remember where I read another post by Bizzy, but I'm pretty sure he took a tour of the manufacturing/testing facilities where Cane Creek has their suspension work done. I KNOW this is in a thread somewhere.
Very interesting Bizutch... I'd like to see the dyno graphs myself. Since I have a Demo 8 which requires platform damping for the suspension to be efficient when pedaling, how could I tune the DB to work with my bike? I know Herndon was running one on his Demo 8, but haven't been able to get in touch w/ anyone who helped him set up his rig...
For now, I'm getting a DHX. If the DB can be tuned to provide a good platform, I just might flip my DHX next year in favor of the DB.
I gotta agree. My 5th has been very reliable and tuneable and I've had great customer service too.coma13 said:
At the same time I'm not suprised either. DH scene isn't much of a cash cow and others have surpassed them in tech.
So here's an opportunity for PUSH. There are so many 5th's out there, hopefully they can keep those shocks in action?
Lets not underestimate alll the monkies - just because you are find a shock interesting on the Internet doesn't mean you run out and buy one. The monkies I know are a lot smarter than to do something like that.Cant Climb said:
And what is that going to do for you......?S.K.C. said:
It seems like you have some bad blood with the DB. Just because he wants a DB doesn't mean he has to have a legitimate reason. I'm getting ready to sell my DHX for one, so what? I like everything I've heard about it and want to try it out. big deal.Cant Climb said:
Exactly..I toured the facility and had a one person complete demonstration and assembly tour. It's tough for me to explain but if you want "platform" damping, it's not automaticly built in. But from what I understand to this point, if you want to spin the low speed compression damper in all the way, you can just about lock it out on low speed and it won't affect the high speed compression damping.S.K.C. said:
So essentially, you just tune in your own "platform". Don't quote me on this cause I'm not Cane Creek...you wanna know how to do it...he'll answer your question. BUT, only on the phone...not on some forum.
Its a freaking hobby it the one place where you can do just as you like. Come on Cant Climb don't be such a sourpuss today.
Oh...and another nice thing is the pivoting shock mounts that help the shock "float" if the linkage is loose and tries to compress it at an angle....it can help aid in longevity.
Can't Climb:
The Double-Barrel is Can't Climb's kryptonite.
Bizutch:
Lol...c'mon now...
The Double-Barrel is Can't Climb's kryptonite.
Bizutch:
That's exactly what I thought... I'll have to give a call soon. Thanx for the info.