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RideMonkey How To Series: Throwing a Tantrum in Public

Tantrum Cycles

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
djjohnr said:
Most of the issues voiced in this thread are around the suspension rate, specifically that it would be harsh off the top then soft in the middle of the stroke. Based on the Vital review it seems like that's exactly what the tester felt. Sounds like a promising design otherwise; just update the leverage rate on the next iteration.

Vital Review - 3.5 out of 5

"Setting the bike up and bouncing on the saddle, I was met with the suspension feel typical of a bike equipped with a low-volume air shock from a few of years ago - stiff off the top, a soft transition/mid-stroke, and a good deal of ramp right at the bottom.
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Dr John,

You mentioned BT's parking lot feel, but left out the statement at the conclusion that puts that into perspective;

"While our test ride was short and sweet, this bike reaffirmed that first impressions don't always carry over to the trail. The Tantrum Cycles Meltdown surprised me in a positive way. "

In other words, it did not replicate that parking lot feel on the trail.
 
4130biker

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
450
Tantrum Cycles said:
Hey 4130, while you're being so sure of your yourself, you might refer to the actual thread that i posted my comment in, thew Kickstarter thread. My comment stands:

"It would be fun to run through all of the monkey's predictions of doom and gloom some day. All of the evils predicted that never came close to materializing, but I have better things to do".

But I do have better things to do, which is why I programmed my ridemonkey bot clones to drag it all back up and post it under your names, so I don't have to take the time. hmmmm, seems to be working.
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I can't keep track of all these shit threads, but that comment did stick out. My mistake!
 
Tantrum Cycles

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
djjohnr said:
Most of the issues voiced in this thread are around the suspension rate, specifically that it would be harsh off the top then soft in the middle of the stroke.
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"Harsh off the top" never appeared in anybody's ride review. Only in parking lot feel.

Soft in the middle, yes. Easy to fix with a click of CD or 5 psi. Like I mentioned elsewhere, the whole bike was set up too soft for what BT was doing. He set the fork up himself and bottomed it so hard on the gap jump it scared me.

For all of the demos, I set the bike up to the soft end of the spectrum, to more clearly demonstrate the changes that occur when climbing. BT never asked for a change during the test ride. He mentioned that there was one place where he felt the rear was a little low. I asked him what the downside was. He shrugged and didn't have an answer, it just "felt" different.

I'm good with that. You can't make a bike that performs differently without a different feel. Will that feel become known to be good? Yes. I have stated here and elsewhere that I want the rear of the bike to be riding a few mm lower at speed. Why? slacker geo and more negative travel available. While BT didn't quite realize it (by his own admission, things were "fuzzy" as to why it worked), those characteristics were why he felt "the bike has a great ability to maintain speed" on the DH.
 
djjohnr

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,109
1,799
Northern California
You can spin it however you like, however the user feedback from the vital review is -

"What I found is that the bike has a great ability to maintain speed, in large part thanks to its pedaling traits for those smooth sections of trail between features. In most instances you get the sense that you're on a lighter bike with a low perceived weight, though it felt a bit mushy when pressing into turns and pumping compressions. While coasting, outright suspension performance wasn't quite on par with current market leaders, lacking that supremely supple, capable, "I can do no wrong" feeling."
 
Tantrum Cycles

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
djjohnr said:
You can spin it however you like, however the user feedback from the vital review is -

"What I found is that the bike has a great ability to maintain speed, in large part thanks to its pedaling traits for those smooth sections of trail between features. In most instances you get the sense that you're on a lighter bike with a low perceived weight, though it felt a bit mushy when pressing into turns and pumping compressions. While coasting, outright suspension performance wasn't quite on par with current market leaders, lacking that supremely supple, capable, "I can do no wrong" feeling."
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I'm good with that. I did laugh a little reading "those smooth sections of trail between features". I was riding with him on another brand of bike and I didn't feel ANYTHING SMOOTH in Bootleg canyon.

As for the suspension performance not quite being on par with the best, I'm good with that too. I would like to take whatever is rated the best and put the same shock on and see how it feels.

With the most simple, basic shock available on the market, I call that a pretty good review. The DVO was not available at the time of the test. Vital will get a production bike later this year.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,503
1,719
Warsaw :/
Tantrum Cycles said:
"Harsh off the top" never appeared in anybody's ride review. Only in parking lot feel.

Soft in the middle, yes. Easy to fix with a click of CD or 5 psi. Like I mentioned elsewhere, the whole bike was set up too soft for what BT was doing. He set the fork up himself and bottomed it so hard on the gap jump it scared me.

For all of the demos, I set the bike up to the soft end of the spectrum, to more clearly demonstrate the changes that occur when climbing. BT never asked for a change during the test ride. He mentioned that there was one place where he felt the rear was a little low. I asked him what the downside was. He shrugged and didn't have an answer, it just "felt" different.

I'm good with that. You can't make a bike that performs differently without a different feel. Will that feel become known to be good? Yes. I have stated here and elsewhere that I want the rear of the bike to be riding a few mm lower at speed. Why? slacker geo and more negative travel available. While BT didn't quite realize it (by his own admission, things were "fuzzy" as to why it worked), those characteristics were why he felt "the bike has a great ability to maintain speed" on the DH.
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The shock is not there to fix bad design. Some bike designers are really lucky it's not 2005 and shocks forgive much more.

@Axa you really have a lot of free time on your hand to read through this topic and dislike all my posts.
 
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S

swkshepherd

Chimp
Nov 19, 2016
4
5
Axa said:
Is it due to an unusually good start of the ski season? Not much snow to brag about around here yet. But it's dumping like crazy out west..
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Don't mean to add to the fire too much here, but didn't @Sandwich say that Axa's IP was from a foreign country. The quote above seems remarkably well suited to the US weather this year, no?
 
Tantrum Cycles

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
Jm_ said:
Any plans to do a Fatbike?
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Why no, but thanks for asking.

the current lineup is:

Meltdown 160 mm 27.5

Outburst: 125 mm 29er

Meltdown Race, 180 mm fork, slacker

Optional config:

125 mm 27.5

140 mm 29er

160 mm 29er

the optional configs can be built using various dropout, rocker, shock and shock mounts

Also working on a 180 mm 27.5, but need a few more parts to get that done.

All of the above will take up to a 3" tire.

And they all come with a money back guarantee that the naysayers on ridemonkey are wrong.
 
Tantrum Cycles

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
Serial Midget said:
You said it better than I, it doesn't matter how good a brand or design is when the designer / proponent comes off as a 3rd class douche. See Guerrilla Gravity on how to build an aspiration brand from the design up. It starts with people skills.
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Here's the problem Serial, 1) It doesn't take people skills to win races, championships, or design groundbreaking suspension. None whatsoever. Engineers in particular are not known for this in general. Having said that, I manage to do ok with actual PEOPLE.

When I entered this thread, many pages in, the Missing Link had already been decried and torn apart by the assembled team of experts and wanna be engineers on ride monkey. Now, I could let that stand.....naaahhh, if you're full of shit, I'm gonna let you know. And I did. In a damn nice way, I might add. But engineers (and especially wannabes) do not like their internet superiority challenged. So we all spent a lot of time making funny pictures and comments and tags because I dare challenge their collective authority.

Sooo, it turns out they were wrong. What had been predicted to be an unrideable piece of shit, turned out to be pretty damn good. Even at Vital, yes, the most bad ass tester I've met, my 2 year old ragged out, short reach, long CS, Xfusion equiped bike got the same overall rating as, for example, a Devinci Spartan Carbon (twice as much), A Pivot Mach 6 carbon (twice as much ), Intense Spider Pro (etc) and a bunch more. Interestingly, 2 of those noted have the much acclaimed DW link.

Not to mention all of the bikes with a lower rating.

Soo, I'm not feeling too bad about how the bike is being judged by people that actually ride it. I mean, if it really was that bad, surely somebody would've posted a negative review by now. But it's just not going to happen.

if the haters don't want to buy my bikes because I embarrassed them in there backyard, I'm really cool with that.

If their supporters don't want to buy my bike because I was unkind to the acknowledge experts, I'm really fine with that.

But thank you all for keeping this thread going and contributing. I think you might have Tantrum to kick around for a looooong time. Because people are loving the bike and I'm having a blast. yeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Oh, ya. I freely admit I'm a dick. No prob. Most of the time in real life, I do a decent job of hiding it. Maybe a mirror might do you guys some good.

cheers,

b
 
Tantrum Cycles

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
Toshi said:
I don't think most people are reading that Vital review as positively as you parse it in your own, biased mind.

/understatementofyear
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Hard to tell, isn't it? You mean when Brandon rates the bike "very good" ?

Or "Surprised me in a positive way"?

or " has a great ability to maintain speed"?

or "feels like a much lighter bike"?

or "has a precise nature that allows you to change lines easily"?

of course, that's just on the DH.

How bout the climbing pedaling??

" I can confirm that this bike does indeed pedal incredibly well without sacrificing traction in the same manner that many other bikes do." This is pretty big to me.

Or " On the gas, however, I was instantly surprised by just how quickly it responded to hard pedal inputs. Even though it has 160mm of travel, it stands up and accelerates with a gusto comparable to a good bike with 50-60mm less travel. Provided my cadence was smooth and consistent, the corresponding burst of uphill speed was nothing short of impressive. I actually found climbing fun during these sprint efforts. At no point did I notice any harsh pedal feedback while pedaling over bumps. Unlike a hardtail, the rear wheel stayed pretty well glued to the ground through the rough stuff."?

Nah, doesn't sound positive at all.

Oh, wait, they are buying bikes based off that review. Good enough for me.

Ha. And from this thread. Go figure.
 
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