Breaking news!! A well-balanced diet with lots of exercise and a few drinks now and then is the path to health and happiness!!! You heard it here first!!! Now how do I get paid for that?
OGRipper said:Breaking news!! A well-balanced diet with lots of exercise and a few drinks now and then is the path to health and happiness!!! You heard it here first!!! Now how do I get paid for that?
binary visions said:
The related topics section has resulted in all sorts of old threads getting bumped since it's been added. Most of 'em are funny but I'm afraid you chose a rather lame one to bump up
yes, but the more drastic low carb diet, kinda introduces a high protein diet in exchange..Toshi said:actually there is some basis. a meal of all protein is more satiating than carbs. glucagon and insulin rise and fall at different rates depending on the composition of your meal...
ALEXIS_DH said:yes, but the more drastic low carb diet, kinda introduces a high protein diet in exchange..
an unmonitored 70% or 80% protein (based on calorie count) diet without regular exercise, lots of water and a healthy set of kidneys to begin with is stepping into the potentially unhealthy...
and that risk is higher than just dropping off 200 calories from your daily intake of doritos, candy, dessert or something trivial like that....
Um, 12 of the 18 posts have been your own... it doesn't count if you're the one giving attentionfirestorm said:Just realized something here BV. For a lame old thread, it's getting quite a bit of attention on a Saturday. hahaha Sorry bro had to go there. Sorry.
citations please. don't eat enough protein, whether you exercise a lot or a little (but especially if a lot!) ==> you become catabolic.syadasti said:Nutritional science does not back up what you say. Most Americans eat too much protein. Also pools of amino acids (building blocks of protein) last for several days in the body which means don’t have to balance their intake that often.
On average most adults eat 75g protein a day. The average person requires about 30g. What happens to the excess - it is converted to glucose... There is no solid scientific evidence that eating more protein than the recommended requirements results in more body muscle mass. The only scientifically proven way to increase muscle mass is EXERCISE.
so now we know the cumulative effects on the ol' noggin of 25 years of 'roid rage...firestorm said:I've been involved in bodybuilding since I was 17 and that was a looong time ago.
Average US intake 75g, daily recommended 30g, so that ain't going to happenToshi said:citations please. don't eat enough protein, whether you exercise a lot or a little (but especially if a lot!) ==> you become catabolic.
You absolutely need to excercise to build muscle but without feeding the muscle it will not grow and everyone knows that protein is what feeds the muscle. And that is scientifically proven. Carbohydrates provide Energy. So I also have to agree that too much protein will make one catabolic along with other negative side effects. Again I say that too much of anything isn't good for you. The amount of protein one eats should be determined by how physical you are. I would love to read this article where you read that 75gms of protein is too much. Not doubting you but would like to read it. Link me please.syadasti said:Nutritional science does not back up what you say. Most Americans eat too much protein. Also pools of amino acids (building blocks of protein) last for several days in the body which means dont have to balance their intake that often.
On average most adults eat 75g protein a day. The average person requires about 30g. What happens to the excess - it is converted to glucose... There is no solid scientific evidence that eating more protein than the recommended requirements results in more body muscle mass. The only scientifically proven way to increase muscle mass is EXERCISE.
I heard it from Dr. Levitsky, a well respected professor of Nutritional Sciences and Psychology at Cornell University. He usually has good summaries of the body of studies but I took the course many years ago, so I'm not going provide any article for this old thread on the Internet...firestorm said:. I would love to read this article where you read that 75gms of protein is too much. Not doubting you but would like to read it. Link me please.
Protein Needs
Protein Needs - US Guidelines on Protein and Diet
The Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) of protein according to U.S. government standards is 0.8 gram per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of ideal body weight for the adult. This protein RDA is said to meet 97.5% of the population's needs.
Protein Needs - Protein RDA is Higher Than Average Need
The US RDA for protein in our daily diet is high, to cover most person's needs. For example, the average requirement for dietary protein is 0.6 grams per kilogram [2.2 pounds] of ideal body weight, while the protein RDA is 0.8 grams per kilogram of ideal body weight. So the protein RDA has a wide built-in safety margin.
Adult Male Protein Needs
An adult male who should weigh about 154 pounds, or 70 kilograms, requires about 56 grams of protein daily.
Adult Female Protein Needs
An adult female whose best weight is 110 pounds, or 50 kilograms, needs about 40 grams a day.
Protein Needs for Other People
The RDA increases by 30 grams per day during pregnancy and 20 grams per day during lactation. During growth, different amounts are needed. For example, 2.2 grams of protein are needed per kilogram of body weight each day in the first six months of life, and 2.0 grams per kilogram for the next six months.
Table 1. Protein RDAs
Age Protein RDA*
0-6 months 2.2
6-12 months 2.0
1-3 years 1.8
4-6 years 1.5
7-10 years 1.2
11-14 years 1.0
15-18 years 0.9
19 + years 0.8
[* per kilo of body weight]
Protein Needs for Muscle/BodyBuilders
Excess protein does NOT build muscle bulk and strength - exercise does.
For example, suppose you want to make your upper body bigger and increase your upper body strength. (a) Go to your local health food store and you'll be told to increase your protein intake by eating protein shakes at each meal. (b) Then go to a sports doctor and sports dietitian. They'll tell you to eat a moderate amount of protein and swim three times a week plus do upper body weights three times a week. (c) Which advice do you believe?
Sources include:
US Dept of Agriculture
UK Dept of Health
Nancy Clark's Sports Nutrition Guidebook
please note that your own post a little later stated that the RDA is 0.7 g protein/kg mass. 70 kg male, 56 g protein recommended. not 30.syadasti said:Average US intake 75g, daily recommended 30g, so that ain't going to happen
I never said .7 anywhere and I already noted this before a few post up The information I quoted also said .6 is dietary requirement and .8 is RDA. The important takeaway is that US diet already contains too much protein (much higher than RDA which fits 97.5% population) and you definately don't need to add more even if you are a body builder.Toshi said:please note that your own post a little later stated that the RDA is 0.7 g protein/kg mass. 70 kg male, 56 g protein recommended. not 30.
syadasti said:My memory was off, RDA is a little higher (nevertheless real need is almost always lower than RDA) and Americans on average eat much more protein than the RDA even. This sounds fair from what I remember:
hey, i´ve got an honest question.firestorm said:The RDA is base line and does not take into account activity levels. Same as the federal body weight chart. Anyone that works out especially in the fitness areas require more protein then the average american coutch potato.
The following is the recommended bodyweight for someone my age. 5'11" small frame141-151 Medium frame 147-163 Large frame 157 - 177.
I'd look like pee wee herman at 147 pounds. I'm currently 220 and as stated before am currently at 10% bodyfat. So does this mean I need to go on a diet???
Those are your government charts for you. If you ever took any Physical Trainer courses you would understand what I"m trying to tell you. Active people do not fall under these tables and charts. Plain and simple. This is a mountain bike site and road bike site. If you are here you probably ride so the base percentages are not for you. YOu require more fuel then your fat lazy ass neighbor who's only excercise is opening a Budweiser and cutting his little patch of weeds in his front yard once a week for 15 minutes.
That is typical of them. Me I don't lie. I did steroids in the 80's. Quit in 1989 prior to marrying a nurse so it was that or her. I chose her. the Question you asked is difficult to answer because so many factors come into play. Making some assumptions at my end such as your willing to train hard, eat correctly, and your not a hard gainer I think it is safe to say that you could count on 1/2 to 1 pound a month for the 1st 1 to 3 months. Then you will see gains slow down a bit which is normal. If you keep your workouts fresh and change it frequently your gains can continue to come quicker then if you keep things always the same. At 14% Bodyfat that isn't that bad so I wouldn't concern myself with that at this time. Work on size for now and as this spring comes you begin adding cardio to your workouts.ALEXIS_DH said:hey, i´ve got an honest question.
how much weight (lean mass) can you gain without steroids, and whats a good realistic lean mass lb/per month natural increase?
say starting at 160lbs 5´9´ 14% body fat.
i´ve asked the instructors at my gym, but everybody swears they are natural...
they are humongous bodybuilders with no fat and paper thin skin, yet when any question has the word "steroids" on it, they react as if they have never heard the term...
dietitian.com said:The RDA for protein for adult males is 63 grams per day. Athletes can maintain protein equilibrium (muscle building equals muscle breakdown) on 1 gram of protein per kilogram of body weight per day. So take your weight, divide by 2.2 then multiply by 1. In fact most persons can achieve protein equilibrium (positive nitrogen balance) at 0.6 to 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram per day.
According to Dr. Carol Meredith at the University of California at Davis, muscle protein synthesis decreases during exercise and nearly doubles during recovery. Research she has shows that additional protein (studies of 1.35 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day) does not increase muscle mass or strength. In addition resistance exercise like weight lifting is a powerful anabolic (building) process that improves protein synthesis (increased muscle mass).
In fact what athletes need is increased caloric intake (60 calories per kilogram of body weight per day) which may contain protein food sources as well. One inherent problem with increasing protein from food sources, is you are probably also increasing fat content.
...
Body builder's protein losses are through sweat, urine and feces, the majority of which is not protein. When muscle is broken down during weight training, it frees amino acids into the blood which can then be recycled within the body...
There is lots of nutrition hype, most untrue in weight lifting and bodybuilding. While at the University of Minnesota, Duluth, I taught sports nutrition for several years, worked with college athletes, Olympic athletes and yes-competitive body builders. If you want nutrition expertise, ask a Registered Dietitian...
If you would like to read some good sports nutrition texts, try "The Athlete's Kitchen" by Nancy Clark MS RD or "Sports Nutrition" by Dan Benardot Ph.D., RD. Sports nutrition for children, try "Play Hard Eat Right" by Debbi Sowell Jennings MS RD and Suzanne Nelson Steen D.Sc. RD.
Those are NASN guidelines for competitive athletes. I don't doubt there are some on RM, but the average bike enthusiast isn't a top level athlete. Either way you probably don't need more protein then you are already getting unless you diet is abnormal to that of the average US diet.The recommended NASN intake for endurance athletes is about 1.2-1.4 gm of protein/kg/day or 150-175% of the RDA. Strength athletes need about 1.6-1.7 gm of protein/kg/day or 200-212% of the RDA. The NASN’s recommendation to consume 1.2-1.7 gm of protein/kg/day assumes that the athlete is consuming sufficient calories to support this approach. (NARN, 2005)
Math isn't your strong suit I guess, RDA is .8/kg, so you are way off Your kidneys are hating you for not understanding metric (don't worry, nasa did the same thing with the Mars Climate Orbiter)...firestorm said:The recommended NASN intake for endurance athletes is about 1.2-1.4 gm of protein/PER POUND/day or 150-175% of the RDA. Strength athletes need about 1.6-1.7 gm of protein/PER POUND/day or 200-212% of the RDA. The NASN’s recommendation to consume 1.2-1.7 gm of protein/PER POUND/day assumes that the athlete is consuming sufficient calories to support this approach. (NARN, 2005)
so now we know the cumulative effects on the ol' noggin of 25 years of 'roid rage...
I'm hardly a newbe to message boards I just don't post much here. I am baboon knows me and how long I've been around. I've known him for years over at a bodybuilding forum. As for it being the internet, I don't care if it's internet, in person or written on a peice of paper. I expect the same respect given to me as I give to others. If you can't keep it civil when talking or debating something with me then it ends. I have little tollerence for guys that begin to flex cybermuscle with me. I will catch it early, tell them what im telling you and if it persists I end converations with that person immediately. You were making some very good points with facts to back them up and then you went and started the rolling of the eyes etc stuff and worse off the steroid crap which I totally despise because it is just pure ignorance. Just not necessary.syadasti said:This is the Internet newb, get use to it. I'm not being that serious
The extent of most nutrition discussions on my rides are:
Do you want to stop for a energy break or should we keep going?
Or
Look at those edible plants munch, munch, munch (I eat some blackberries, brambles, wineberries, blueberries, garlic mustard, rosehips, field garlic, or whatever else I find) - do you want some - seriously you can eat them, no, oh ok :wonky2:
uh:firestorm said:25 years of roid rage? Are you accusing me of something bud? I haven't seen any rages by me nor INSULTS. they are only coming from your fuqing mouth.
He's not really been "ragin'" per se... maybe a bit adamant but not ragin. Now Knuckleslammer, he was ragin.Toshi said:uh:
a) you're in a rage in many of your posts
b) you just admitted about 3 posts up that you did steroids up through the late 80s.
qed.
People don't want to be healthy. They want to be skinny.Bicyclist said:Everything in moderation. Why don't people understand that if they eat a bit of everything and get off their asses they'll lose weight in a good manner, and be healthier? Starving yourself of essential nutrients may knock off a few pounds but it sure as hell isn't healthy.
Ha, I saw Dave speak at meeting this past week.syadasti said:I heard it from Dr. Levitsky, a well respected professor of Nutritional Sciences and Psychology at Cornell University. He usually has good summaries of the body of studies but I took the course many years ago, so I'm not going provide any article for this old thread on the Internet...
Where and about what? He's a pretty good speaker. His courses are challenging and thoroughMackie said:Ha, I saw Dave speak at meeting this past week.