Hijack... Todd, did you guys use a different color on the 888 for the Elite? Looks kind of gray in the pic...
Brian
Brian
Sunday shock: avy chubie, fox dhx, marzocchi roco??
- Thread starter marra
- Start date
200psi?? I ran mine at 60, although was advised to run it around 80-90. Is yours valved correctly for the Sunday? Even with them super plush, with the correct valving the rebound is always nice and fast to snap you out of a corner. Sounds like you might either have too soft of a spring or not enough rebound...
just a thought, though I'm glad you're loving the ride whatever the setup.
manwithgun said:
marra said:please as soon as you test the roco in a sunday, let us know how it works
call me around 10 days before VCA, i should have one in sunday size so you can try it.
I like the DHX, but I like the Avy for how I ride. (I also had the wherewithall to get one for Christmas)Jimmy_Pop said:
LOL!!! And it was the Sh!t 2 years ago...CBJ said:
Still a good shock, but there are better, and there are certainly worse.
The best shock to get is what you are looking to accomplish, geometry, your riding style and so on.
I'd bet a million bucks, if you got a DHX you'd be thrilled. If you got an Avy, you'd be thrilled.
One huge selling point for the Avy is the accessibility of Craig, who is the engineer in charge as it were. if you have a question, he has the answer.
This is the same type of argument over any high end product. many of the opinions here basically tend to be brand loyalty.
I had a bad experience with a fox shock, and the way I was treated, so my choice for an Avy for me was an easy one.
The matching lowers looks super cool on the Elite - nice feature Todd.
Looks real good on the site...
Brian
Brian
It was actually valved for my GeminiDH so it's pretty gutted. At 160lbs, I run a #300 spring and love the ride. Truthfully, my current high psi set-up is probobly closer to the 5th shock feel than I'd like to admit...dante said:
I just spent two days at Bootleg Canyon on the 06 Sunday (with DHX and 06 WC BoXXer). Simply amazing - I thought the bike worked pretty damn well with the progressive damper but believe it or not, it’s much better with the DHX!! I just fell in love with the Sunday for a second time!!dante said:
200psi?? I ran mine at 60, although was advised to run it around 80-90. Is yours valved correctly for the Sunday? Even with them super plush, with the correct valving the rebound is always nice and fast to snap you out of a corner. Sounds like you might either have too soft of a spring or not enough rebound...
just a thought, though I'm glad you're loving the ride whatever the setup.
PS: Thanks to manwithgun for the initial DHX setup tips. I’m 140lbs and used a 300# spring, no preload, full BO, 1 turn PP and about 115 psi’s. I will be playing with the setting a bit more next time, but that worked pretty damn well for me!
acadian: is it noticably more lively with the dhx?
'Lively" = about the sameart vandelay said:
DHX = More compliant. e.g. works much better then the progressive damper over small to med size bumps. When I had the progressive damper, at times I had the feeling of getting a bit "bucked" (e.g. rear wheel) when hitting med/large size bumps. IMO the DHX also performs better in this area.
damn..that right there shows some difference in suspension design - on my F1:Acadian said:
I'm 215lbs with t-shirt and shorts
450# spring no preload
1/3 BO
1 turn PP
100 psi
The only time I've felt it bottom was on Dirt Merechant in Whistler on some of the steeper take-offs...
Acadian said:
You have the boost valve all the way in on that thing?
That's exactly what I've felt with a lot of shocks using "too much" compression damping. It's like you hit a bump, but instead of the suspension absorbing it, it just bucks your butt in the air. The bike can still be ridden, but it's not really absorbing the bump at all. I've found that a lower spring rate (lower than suggested) helps sometimes, but then you have bottom out problems. With the progressiveness adjustment of the DHX, you can run a very soft intial feel and not worry about bottom, and with the better responsiveness (basically less low speed compression damping) it just equates to a better overall feel.Acadian said:
The DHX is not perfect though, I think it spikes a bit at higher speeds. But it did go a long way to fixing the "bucking" problems I had with shocks that were either too progressive (RP3) or had too much compression damping (5th and curnut).
si....kidwoo said:
that feeling you're getting is from riding pro level equipment/setup and not riding at pro speeds.Jm_ said:
I've ridden a couple of "pro-level" or "pro-setup" bikes and found few of them have the feeling he described. Many do run higher compression with faster rebound, but it seems to depend heavily on the person.renegade999 said:
**edit**
Actually, I need to edit that.
There are a few setups that ive ridden, that when pinned and ridden extremely agressively, are extremely fast. But if you just cruise, the bike feels like crap.
**end edit**
if you hit stuff hard enough, you'll never be 'bucked'.
To an extent - if you back the compression off too much it will bottom very easily on fast hits.Jm_ said:
I agree with Biscuit - setting your bike up to be fast (especially cornering well) usually compromises bump absorption a bit, since any bike that is really thrashed hard will usually bottom out often if the compression (or spring rate) isn't high enough.
While I don't agree with the principle. I have ridden a few with excessive compression damping.
Some argue that it allows them to hop and skim over bumps faster.
I think it was a habit developed from riding crappy bikes.
IMO, this drastically takes away from cornering ability, which is where speed comes from.
Current pro-level suspension generally has very open compression to allow it to track better. But ramps up quickly to prevent bottoming harshly. Also the reason high and low speed compression was developed.
The biggest thing I notice between fast and not so fast guys, is the fast ones seem to open the rebound a bit faster.
Some argue that it allows them to hop and skim over bumps faster.
I think it was a habit developed from riding crappy bikes.
IMO, this drastically takes away from cornering ability, which is where speed comes from.
Current pro-level suspension generally has very open compression to allow it to track better. But ramps up quickly to prevent bottoming harshly. Also the reason high and low speed compression was developed.
The biggest thing I notice between fast and not so fast guys, is the fast ones seem to open the rebound a bit faster.
I don't really reckon you can skim over bumps faster with more compression damping, you just get a harsher ride (I don't reckon it's faster or slower really). But using more low-speed compression definitely helps when you're hitting corners hard - high speed compression should IMO always be as little as possible (as in, enough that you're not totally blowing through the travel/bottoming out all the time). I don't really think pro-level suspension is becoming more "open" in low-speed compression at least - just that the difference between high and low speed is becoming much more pronounced (and the transition between them is becoming smoother). Even the supposedly lightly-valved shocks that come on the Sundays have a noticeable amount of LSC (and/or platform, whatever it is - resistance to low speed movement) compared to the old Fox RCs.Biscuit said:
I also don't agree with the slow compression skimming thing.
I read it in an interview with some suspension tuner. Didn't like it at all.
I understand your point about low speed compression in hard corners, but I think this really depends on the rider. I like to shove my suspension into a hard corner, causing it to dive/compress. It lowers my center of gravity and seems to give exceptional traction when done right.
My understanding is that a) tires and b) open LSC are where traction comes from in sweeping, loose corners with small bumps.
I read it in an interview with some suspension tuner. Didn't like it at all.
I understand your point about low speed compression in hard corners, but I think this really depends on the rider. I like to shove my suspension into a hard corner, causing it to dive/compress. It lowers my center of gravity and seems to give exceptional traction when done right.
My understanding is that a) tires and b) open LSC are where traction comes from in sweeping, loose corners with small bumps.
Yeah, when you ride through sections really hard, the bike seems to hang up more, vs when you go with lighter compression and rebound. It may make it feel "bouncy" at slow speed, but I'd rather have it work best when things are most critical, at speed.Biscuit said:
I don't see how riders can run rebound as slow as they indicate when they talk about their settings, or heck when I work on their bikes in the shop. Lots of people will run like 2 or 3 turns from FULL rebound damping. The shock rebounds so slow that almost any speed will cause it to pack up and makes it feel like riding a rigid bike through a rock garden. I haven't used any shock or fork that I've consistantly used more than about 1/4th to 1/3rd of the available rebound range. I can't run any more than that and not feel it get horrible when I pick up speed.
Good case in point is the DHX Air. Lacking mid-stroke support due to the piston design, it blows through travel at speed on rocky surfaces, it ends up feeling almost the opposite of what acadian and i described before, where the suspension is "bucking" because it's not using it's travel effectively. In this case it blows through the travel, and doesn't have enough travel left to absorb the next bump. Ends up feeling harsh, but for a different reason than the previous case.thaflyinfatman said:
hope this isn't turning into a semantics thing... remember, if you already know how you like yer bike to ride, just get the shock tuned to accomodate. My contribution to this thread simply stated that my DHX tune allowed a large range of usable adjustments. My only complaint/misunderstanding is that the DHX doesn't use fluid damping for HS comp control; only chamber volume. Can anyone confirm?
tell that to ricky carmichael.Jm_ said:
and you call yourself MOTODH? there's nothing moto about you.
we're talking compression damping for high speed hits. nothing you would know the first thing about. go back to sleep.
we're talking compression damping for high speed hits. nothing you would know the first thing about. go back to sleep.
renegade999 said:
Hahaha bro believe me I know plenty about suspension and MX, I was not calling you out on your suspension knowledge but i thought you were referencing directly to RC sus setup. I already how compression plays into the speed of the shock stroke and I do not know why JM said what he did about that, got any more tech questions to test my knowledge, man every one of your post is attacking someone, calm down its just the internet
my apologies MOTODH. im getting over a drug addiction, and my patience levels are low.
Can I have what you're not using?renegade999 said:
This thread has officially derailled
Biscuit said:
Was that interview with Chris Porter of Mojo (in Dirt mag)? If so, yes I totally agree - that guy is a tool. I actually got a letter published a couple of issues later heaping **** on him.
Some dampers have a lot of compression damping inherent to them (eg older Boxxers, SPV shocks) and some have hardly any (pre-06 888s, Fox RCs), so you have to tune them to suit. Yes it's good for bikes to squat a bit into corners, but try riding a bike that's set up REALLY soft (like for someone 25% lighter than you are) with no compression damping at all - they bog down like crazy in corners. Personally I really prefer setups with lots of LSC, especially on higher speed stuff.
I think you meant that traction comes from tyres and HSC (not LSC)? Because it's the ability for the tyre/wheel to move up and down QUICKLY that is important for traction.
IMO the biggest improvement in dampers recently is that the difference between LSC and HSC is bigger and the transition is smoother.
Yep, that's the one.thaflyinfatman said: