Road riding is more peaceful? I've got a sprained finger from getting doored at 59th and 5th on my way back from riding in Central Park on Friday. The trails are a peaceful oasis compared to riding the road around here.
Team G-Cross Honda is No More..............FINISHED
- Thread starter Akula_7
- Start date
That totally sucks..
What's more is I recall reading on this forum a few members stating.. "my honda inside source tells me production bike will be out xxx and to wait it out." LOL watever! safe to say those member's credibility is out the window.
It really too bad though. Having honda or any large organizations in this sport could only be a good thing.
What's more is I recall reading on this forum a few members stating.. "my honda inside source tells me production bike will be out xxx and to wait it out." LOL watever! safe to say those member's credibility is out the window.
It really too bad though. Having honda or any large organizations in this sport could only be a good thing.
Welcome newbie.
Lesson 1 of posting on RM:
Loss of any and all credibility is instant! Welcome to Incredibility :thinK
Lesson 1 of posting on RM:
Loss of any and all credibility is instant! Welcome to Incredibility :thinK
Good one.
This is the same demographic that suits up in full body armor just to go on a basic xc ride.......
Actually, according to Honda, they did intend on selling it. They went as far as having dealers in Japan order frames and had a few dealer meetings with all of the brochures, display bikes etc.
They then realized they have no way to control quality overseas and canned the entire project. I am assuming their moto network in the US wanted nothing to do with pedal bikes. No production version and all of their data has been aquired, why stay in it?
They then realized they have no way to control quality overseas and canned the entire project. I am assuming their moto network in the US wanted nothing to do with pedal bikes. No production version and all of their data has been aquired, why stay in it?
That makes absolutely no sense. You're teling me Honda has no quality control on their bikes? Moto included? The entire corporation, arguably producing some of the best engine products in the world, simply sends thier **** out for manufacturing and says "Yoshi, Cross yer fingers that out **** comes back straight."
I think whats far more likely is a) DH means piss all to a company like Honda, in terms of money b) They learned what they needed to, or didn't, and figured it was time to leave or c) realized the investment they had just wasn't worth it.
Either way, sucks to have them go. I would say Honda backing out after such a large investment speaks volumes to any other corporate sponsor that might have thought about pitching in.
Ok, sure. Dispute what Honda has announced publicly, after having had dealer meetings and take pre-orders in Japan.
I'm telling you honda cannot control post sales service quality over here as they would have to deal with bike shops and not their dedicated, trained moto shop.
This from a guy who was at the dealer meetings, and with a photo of the letter from Honda to dealers explaining the cancellation.
I can guarantee you they "had the intention". Their PR people have confirmed it, they had meetings with dealers to learn about the bike and pre order a few months ago in Japan.
HONDA is huge.. they have spent 1 billion in Formula One.. also (rumour) $150 Million (3year) to Fernando Alonso. No way to control quality overseas?? Would liek to know more.. In comparison with other Car manufacturer.. i wouldnt be surprised through out the years HONDA's industry first when it comes to quality.
Maybe they had intention maybe they didnt but maybe other factors into play. regardless sad to see them go.
Maybe they had intention maybe they didnt but maybe other factors into play. regardless sad to see them go.
I think what Transcend's saying is that a Honda bicycle would be at the mercy of the hacks at a local bicycle shop and not Honda factory-trained moto mechanics through their own dealer network. Never mind that the standard for DH is to sell a frame (or frame/fork) only and then get built up by the owner with an amalgamation of parts that Honda would have no say over.
Honda supplies thoroughly R&Ded, turnkey-down-to-the-last-spoke-nipple piece of equipment for the given sport. Downhill mountain bikes fit that model poorly.
Plus, I think you answered your own question when you started talking about the dollars in their other ventures. Face it, DH is big stuff to us but a pissant drop in the bucket to a huge global powerhouse like Honda Motor Co. They originally allowed a few R&D guys who were into biking play around with some ideas and make some bikes. They did that, learned what they wanted to from it and are moving on. Too bad for us but understandable.
ahh thx for the explanation. Makes sense.
Right. I forgot that companies always tell the truth, and the whole truth at that.
Theres gotta be more to it. They could easily control which shops the bikes got into, and make sure it was the ones that knew what they were doing. Its not that hard, its called research. Something tells me Honda is pretty decent at this research stuff.
I see what you mean though. The loss of fanatical control over your brand drives many companies bonkers. But in the end, you wanna sell products, then you gotta do what you can. I don't see Honda flipping out over thier lawmowers being sold in Walmart, or sketchy mom and pop hardware stores, and I am willing to bet lawmowers would account for a much larger sales number then bikes ever could.
My guess is they simply looked at DH and realized from a business sense, its a waste of time.
And after tepid response from dealers decided to can the whole enterprise while having their PR people spin it into a story about Honda's unyielding commitment to quality service? Sure, I buy that...
sad but true
Not a good analogy. Maybe your mowing style is different from mine, but I don't crash my lawnmower in rockgardens too frequently. And when was the last time you snapped the handlebar on your lawnmower? Replaced the tires on those plastic wheels?
Consider the performance and maintence standards of a lawnmower compared to a DH bike. It's probably easier to design and build a lawnmower that will work for years on end with no maintence than a DH bike that will work for six months with no maintenence.
agreed.
Favorite Team G-Cross Honda Memory:
Must have been '03, give or take a year, and we were out in Durango at the NORBA Finals (back when the NORBA series was remotely respectable). Sunday after the race, everyone's packing up and getting ready to fly to Europe for the Worlds. All over the pits, mechanics and riders are ripping apart bikes and shoving them in beat-up cardboard boxes for the trip - sort of reminded me of that period right after Interbike ends when the convention center goes from a show room to a junkyard in about 30 seconds. Anyway, as Heikki and I walked past the Honda pit, there wasn't a cardboard box or bike case to be found anywhere. Instead, they were busy BUILDING A WOODEN CRATE around Minaar's fully assembled bike, which I assume was then loaded up and airfreighted to the next event.
I think that's the day the term "pwn3d" was invented.
-JP
Must have been '03, give or take a year, and we were out in Durango at the NORBA Finals (back when the NORBA series was remotely respectable). Sunday after the race, everyone's packing up and getting ready to fly to Europe for the Worlds. All over the pits, mechanics and riders are ripping apart bikes and shoving them in beat-up cardboard boxes for the trip - sort of reminded me of that period right after Interbike ends when the convention center goes from a show room to a junkyard in about 30 seconds. Anyway, as Heikki and I walked past the Honda pit, there wasn't a cardboard box or bike case to be found anywhere. Instead, they were busy BUILDING A WOODEN CRATE around Minaar's fully assembled bike, which I assume was then loaded up and airfreighted to the next event.
I think that's the day the term "pwn3d" was invented.
-JP
i think the average DH rider does a better job taking care of their lawnmower than their DH bikes. couldn't believe the number of brand new bikes i saw clapped out at the US Open, and it wasn't even June yet. . . . of course they'll all blame it on the manufacturer
lthumbsdown:
lthumbsdown:they actually had custom made bike cases complete with frame/fork mounts. like a huge version of what we would put some of our power tools in.Favorite Team G-Cross Honda Memory:
Must have been '03, give or take a year, and we were out in Durango at the NORBA Finals (back when the NORBA series was remotely respectable). Sunday after the race, everyone's packing up and getting ready to fly to Europe for the Worlds. All over the pits, mechanics and riders are ripping apart bikes and shoving them in beat-up cardboard boxes for the trip - sort of reminded me of that period right after Interbike ends when the convention center goes from a show room to a junkyard in about 30 seconds. Anyway, as Heikki and I walked past the Honda pit, there wasn't a cardboard box or bike case to be found anywhere. Instead, they were busy BUILDING A WOODEN CRATE around Minaar's fully assembled bike, which I assume was then loaded up and airfreighted to the next event.
I think that's the day the term "pwn3d" was invented.
-JP
If you've ever uncrated a Japanese motorcyle for assembly for the showroom (my after-school job in high school was assembling Suzukis), you'd appreciate the attention to detail and protection that goes into their packaging.
My favorite memory from the Honda team was at the 05 NORBA national. The team kept all of the bikes enclosed in a white tent in the back of the pit. I noticed one of the door flaps was opened a little and tried to sneak a peak from a distance. I caught a quick glimpse of the gearbox before one of the mechs pointed at me and slammed the flap shut. That made me realize just how serious they were about keeping that thing a secret.
Unlike most Mountain or road bikes where i swear they hire a kid to kick every box right where the derailleur hanger is.
going to ebay, you should bid on one!
Hmmmm, the analogy was good and bad.
What about the bikes branded Honda that sell in Walmart or the Mountain Cycle bikes that were branded Honda a few years ago? What control does Honda have over those? Besides, Lawnmower racing is a growing sport......
I wonder if them not winning the WC overall or World Champs had anything to do with it?
Also
Loss of consumer confidence in US domestic market
Falling US dollar
Increase in Materials cost
Greg did win the WC overall on a Honda
giant too?
It's not like Giant produces frames for Trek and Specialized or anything....
wait...since when did Alonso sign with Honda? When did Button or Barrichello get the boot?
and theyve spent over a billion over the years theyve been back in F1...plus there are a ton of smaller companies that have spent more over the years that are significantly smaller than Honda ie: Ferrari, Williams, Mclaren, BMW
but back on point, im sure Honda wouldnt build these bikes in their own factories and take away from something more profitable like motorcycles or cars. so their QC wouldnt be up to their standards.
i remember mt snow in '06 where they let me check out their sweeeet showa forks with no issue....after i begged of course.
haha they sold there fastest 2 last year, to super aguri
There are milions of F1 viewers and parhaps few 1000 DH viewers (if there is a broadcast).
Honda's departure isn't that bad for racing after all. Besides being a big company, what have they done for racing outside their team? Any further sponsoring or spreading of their money? No. Did they strike with a spectacular appearance except for those bikes? No. Even their "gearbox" was far from what's presented by Nicolai or other developers. Neither those special components used in the bike nor a participating manufacturer (Showa) hit the mtb market. What Honda did, they did for themselves with almost no contribution to the sport.
They definitely had a great team with some great riders. I like all of them, they're phantastic guys. And since Martin (Whiteley) is probably the man with the best connections within the racing circuit they shouldn't worry too much about next season. All they need is a new frame from a financially strong company. There already is some rumble in the jungle.
What racing really needs is more presence in the mainstream sports media. Still TV appearance attracts more outside sponsors then all our cool internet videos and end-of-season-films together. It's changing slowly but many companies are still very conservative concerning this point. Besides, TV is convenient - the show comes to you while on the net you have to look it up yourself.
Currently we're working hard on this issue for the upcoming season. That get's us to another big hurdle constraining a successful development of the sport - the UCI. But I'm not even gonna start on this one...
They definitely had a great team with some great riders. I like all of them, they're phantastic guys. And since Martin (Whiteley) is probably the man with the best connections within the racing circuit they shouldn't worry too much about next season. All they need is a new frame from a financially strong company. There already is some rumble in the jungle.
What racing really needs is more presence in the mainstream sports media. Still TV appearance attracts more outside sponsors then all our cool internet videos and end-of-season-films together. It's changing slowly but many companies are still very conservative concerning this point. Besides, TV is convenient - the show comes to you while on the net you have to look it up yourself.
Currently we're working hard on this issue for the upcoming season. That get's us to another big hurdle constraining a successful development of the sport - the UCI. But I'm not even gonna start on this one...
They made this sport more interesting, besides it can not be very good for DH, if the leading team withdrows from racing.
Just like all other companies involved, since there is no charity in WC racing.
However it would be nice if they would return in this sport and start to sell the RN01, because it would be nice to have one.
Say again? I didn't get the memo about them being the leading team.
I'll agree that they were interesting and had tons of talent on board, but they were pretty much a novelty in the sense that they were racing aboard bikes that were not commercially available (even as a "replica" bike).
hmmmmm . . . #1 trade team several years running, highest funded, best supported, highest profile, and most professionally run team on the circuit. Simply put, no other team can match the Honda program on any level.
Forgive my ignorance, but are trade teams ranked by the UCI? I couldn't find a list. I was just going by WC series and championship wins (in my head). Doesn't seem like they would be tops, but I may very well be wrong.
This will not happen until downhill gets reinvented as something totally other than what it is right now. DH is not a spectator-friendly sport. One person against the clock down a course that cannot be mostly seen from one point. It is too akin to downhill skiing, which at least has the interest-factor of being an Olympic sport.
DH needs to be reinvented into a race - - competitor against competitor - - to have any television value. Mountaincross came close when it replaced lame (and also borrowed directly from skiing) dual slalom. But the courses are too groomed and short to spark any real spectator-appeal competition. It's kind of like indoor short track M/C racing: the hole shot takes the checker.
Look at what Supercross and Arenacross did for motorcycle racing. Motocross was an enthusiast-only sport for the most part, except for once a year you got Carlsbad on ABC's Wide World of Sports. Then some cagey promoter took motocross, jammed it in an arena, gave the track some ridiculously-extreme features and turned too many guys loose to bang handlebars. Average Joe sports spectator showed up to watch and people like Jean-Michele Bayle and Jeremy McGrath became household words.
Paragraph 4 of the press release from page 1:
"The correctness of direction, and our approach, has been validated by the fact that we have been the number one international team for the past 2 years, and proven by the race results including acquisition of the NORBA title (2004) and UCI World Cup title (2005)."
and posted on the UCI's 2007 world cup page under rankings:
http://www.nissan-ucimtbworldcup.com/en/Standings/Teams_standings/index.cfm?Discipline=DH&Sex=EM
oster_oops: