i thought i heard that as well but my audio wasn't the greatest and i couldn't understand everything he said. looking forward to today's press conference and hopefully good news in the months to come.
The Freecaster/WC coverage 2012 thread
- Thread starter big-ted
- Start date
any news on that?
Just got back home from Champery (what a race!), but anyway, to update further- The news is that there is no news!
Siestre Shelpe (Mr RockyRoads) pulled out of the official interview with PinkBike's Si Paton, although they did get a preliminary chat with him.
Apparently, (I can't say for definite as I wasn't privvy to the conversation) Mr Shelpe is very unhappy by the way he and the deal with the UCI has been perceived by the rest of the media/forums/etc. He makes the point that if he had been a massive corporation, everybody would be shaking him by the hand and welcoming him aboard. He is specifically upset with the gravity-set media (DH and 4X).
It may be that he is just a well-intentioned fan of the sport, or it may be more worrying. Who knows? Any talk is just speculation at this moment. And sometimes speculation can be dangerous.
Siestre Shelpe (Mr RockyRoads) pulled out of the official interview with PinkBike's Si Paton, although they did get a preliminary chat with him.
Apparently, (I can't say for definite as I wasn't privvy to the conversation) Mr Shelpe is very unhappy by the way he and the deal with the UCI has been perceived by the rest of the media/forums/etc. He makes the point that if he had been a massive corporation, everybody would be shaking him by the hand and welcoming him aboard. He is specifically upset with the gravity-set media (DH and 4X).
It may be that he is just a well-intentioned fan of the sport, or it may be more worrying. Who knows? Any talk is just speculation at this moment. And sometimes speculation can be dangerous.
Just read the mens race report on Rocky Roads and......well..... words fail me (and the writter apparently)
Maybe if Mr Shelpe at least used a spell checker, then he might start to win people over. And then there's this high brow reporting:
Maybe if Mr Shelpe at least used a spell checker, then he might start to win people over. And then there's this high brow reporting:
Really?
Dude is busted doing shady stuff on the internet--gets called out on it and is upset with Dirt/Vital? Dudes on crack. Gravity media doesn't like him because they don't like liars. If he is as loaded as it appears, then the smart thing would have been to team up with Dirt and or Vital and go in on the deal to the UCI together instead of trying to build your own (non)competing website and advertise that its bigger than Pinkbike. You get the name recognition and reputation of those guys and the money from his side. Win-win for everyone.
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The articles must be written in content mills in India that he was soliciting last year It's the explanation for the weaksauce writing. That stuff still reads like crap even in Flemish. That's wiggidy wack.
someone call the Waaaaah-mbulance.
your website sucks, and your UCI contract appears shady. what, did you think a sh!tload of DH/4X racers and internet fanboys were just gonna look the other way?
doucher...
Mine OK?- http://www.descent-world.co.uk/2011/09/04/danny-hart-wins-2011-uci-world-champs/
Sorry for the shaky/blurred iphone picture- it was bedlam after the event!
thats the most important one of them all. pvssy
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Seriously if he has a problem he could have made an account and posted to clarify everything. Every time I have seen a company do something like it they got very positive feedback. Well unless your name is Tony Ellsworth.
I think everyone needs to take a step back and see how this pans out.
Has everyone listened to the interview that was posted? It was long, but goes a long way to explaining some of what we've only conjectured.
While I admit there appears to be some shady business going on, let me play devil's advocate again.
Some of the main points:
1. They have no media rights, and they don't want to take them away or reduce coverage, they want to increase coverage and are willing to work with Freecaster, etc.
2. The RR website is not intended to be for the enthusiasts of the sport or so called experts, it is for novices looking to get into the sport. They expect the current websites to carry on catering for the avid riders and experts, they do not intend RR to take this role.
3. RR is totally geared towards XC, that is where their passion lies, but they decided to not just support XC because they view all disciplines as valid and want to see them feed off of each other. So they paid out almost twice as much to sponsor the 4X and DH as well even though this is not where their interest is. SS confessed to not really understanding DH and 4X.
And keep in mind that is might not be this Schelpe guy that is behind the fudged numbers, it could be his crooked web chief.
If he's a little pissed by the response he's getting, you might be too if you just chucked a load of money at a bunch of ungrateful folks.
Now I could have swallowed his interview hook line and sinker, but there could also be more than just a little misunderstanding that's been created by this series of events, especially considering its proximity to the media coverage trouble.
Has everyone listened to the interview that was posted? It was long, but goes a long way to explaining some of what we've only conjectured.
While I admit there appears to be some shady business going on, let me play devil's advocate again.
Some of the main points:
1. They have no media rights, and they don't want to take them away or reduce coverage, they want to increase coverage and are willing to work with Freecaster, etc.
2. The RR website is not intended to be for the enthusiasts of the sport or so called experts, it is for novices looking to get into the sport. They expect the current websites to carry on catering for the avid riders and experts, they do not intend RR to take this role.
3. RR is totally geared towards XC, that is where their passion lies, but they decided to not just support XC because they view all disciplines as valid and want to see them feed off of each other. So they paid out almost twice as much to sponsor the 4X and DH as well even though this is not where their interest is. SS confessed to not really understanding DH and 4X.
And keep in mind that is might not be this Schelpe guy that is behind the fudged numbers, it could be his crooked web chief.
If he's a little pissed by the response he's getting, you might be too if you just chucked a load of money at a bunch of ungrateful folks.
Now I could have swallowed his interview hook line and sinker, but there could also be more than just a little misunderstanding that's been created by this series of events, especially considering its proximity to the media coverage trouble.
I'm not going to counter all of your points as I think there is some validity to what you have said. However, have you read any of my previous post or looked at some of the screen captures? His email was posted online, plain as day, in reference to how to fudge numbers on an online community named Black Hat which is defined as
It is troubling. You've looked at it in more detail than I did, and glad you did - really appreciate it.
He did admit in the interview that a lot of the hits come from other websites. It sounds like it's basically a pyramid scheme for hits. Guess he's trying to fluff his numbers, maybe to have a bit more clout with the UCI, who knows.
Right now, this is really all we have against the guy. Fudged counter numbers for a piss poor website.
He's definitely not starting out on the right foot here, but then maybe we should consider he does appear to have just given 120k euro to our sport and secured it for the next 3 years. At least on the face of things. Someone ought to say thanks to him for that, right?
Think of it from the point of outside investors.
If you were a big corporation looking to invest advertising money into such a small niche sport, how would you feel knowing that the TITLE SPONSOR of the largest world circuit of mtn biking was involved with some shady practices in order to create a smoke screen as to the number of hits on his website. If they are admitting to doing something like this, it makes you wonder what other things go on behind closed doors. That's just how I see it, I could be way off....but it would be nice to hear SOMETHING from Rocky Roads on the whole thing. All we are getting is silence here.
If you were a big corporation looking to invest advertising money into such a small niche sport, how would you feel knowing that the TITLE SPONSOR of the largest world circuit of mtn biking was involved with some shady practices in order to create a smoke screen as to the number of hits on his website. If they are admitting to doing something like this, it makes you wonder what other things go on behind closed doors. That's just how I see it, I could be way off....but it would be nice to hear SOMETHING from Rocky Roads on the whole thing. All we are getting is silence here.
"120k euro to our sport and secured it for the next 3 years. At least on the face of things. Someone ought to say thanks to him for that, right?"
40k/year? Thanks? Are you on drugs?
40k/year? Thanks? Are you on drugs?
no kidding... thats like 8 DH bikes. Demo9 is halfway there. Maybe he should be a sponsor? 
LOL. Plus rep to the first person who shops a Demo's Mom banner.no kidding... thats like 8 DH bikes. Demo9 is halfway there. Maybe he should be a sponsor?
Dude, maybe you're a high roller or something, but to this sport 40k is 40k, that's a lot of dosh to stamp your name on something with no significant return on your money. And I don't see anyone else stepping up.
I didn't set the price anyway, the UCI did.
I think since we dont know the advertising prices on the world cup it is hard to compare but 40k looks quite bad compared to the rumored budgets of the top teams. Hell it looks low even for something smaller than the WC since that deal means many races. How many cups next season?
You ARE on drugs. Glad we sorted that out.
Did I read somewhere in here that Rocky Roads is Tony Ellsworth? or am I e-hallucinating?
if that was the case, we're fvcked. and he'll have no problem letting us know that
okay, so whats the worst and the best that could come from all this?
I say, shady things aside, lets just wait and see how this pans out, on the other hand, theres not a whole more that we could do otherwise...
Who knows, maybe we'll get more coverage? Is this all that is comes down to right?
I say, shady things aside, lets just wait and see how this pans out, on the other hand, theres not a whole more that we could do otherwise...
Who knows, maybe we'll get more coverage? Is this all that is comes down to right?
In the recorded interview, SS of RR stated the 300k went 60 / 40 percentage wise into XC / DH+4X.
This is after he said he couldn't state the amount of money that went into each. No too hard to do the math...
He also stated he couldn't disclose where the money comes from.
Naah. It was my comment. Just used them both in one post. Never suggested they are. That indeed would be horrible.
I think it is another reason for UCI not to run a downhilll global series. That prooves it they cant run it if you have a 7figure loss.
The world champs conversely, makes them quite a bit of money.
http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTk3OA&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=NjI3MTU&LangId=1
wcup cost CHF4M
wcup make CHF2M
wchamp cost CHF2M
wchamp make CHF11M
(this is for all disciplines though, road/mtb/etc)
http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTk3OA&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=NjI3MTU&LangId=1
wcup cost CHF4M
wcup make CHF2M
wchamp cost CHF2M
wchamp make CHF11M
(this is for all disciplines though, road/mtb/etc)
A little bit of news about the UCI and the road side of things...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-06/cycling-eyes-races-in-sochi-rio-for-revenue-as-top-teams-mull-breakaway.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-06/cycling-eyes-races-in-sochi-rio-for-revenue-as-top-teams-mull-breakaway.html
After a quick look of their (UCI's) report, I'd like to see their justifications to their "expenditures" and costs. They are vague at best. According to them it costs more to have mtb races than it makes. Therefore wouldn't a sufficient breakdown and justification of costs seem pertinent?
I'm pretty sure there are places to save money within the UCI....especially when it actually COSTS the race venue/town like what, $300K to hold a race? That's what I heard it was for Angel Fire. And they, the town lost money on it. Something just doesn't seem right....
Ask them about their hotel and meal budgets for their staff at events...
https://www.facebook.com/notes/freecastertv/a-big-thank-you/10150310221002262
I would like to thank you all personally and in the name of the Freecaster crew for having tuned-in in numbers to watch the MTB worlds LIVE and replay.
Thanks to your support we should finish the season with a black eye and stand a better chance to be further operational in 2012.
It's too early to communicate on what we will do in 2012 but rest assured that I remain committed to webcasting LIVE as many MTB events as possible but I will only do so at the following conditions:
1. the TV signal must be HD
2. the race format must allow full coverage of the top 15
3. we must operate in a financially viable environment i.e. keep our costs down so that our revenues are sufficient to generate a profit to allow us to invest and grow
4. and as a consequence of point 4, access to the LIVE webcast must remain free
5. Rob Warner remains our commentator
Currently only point 5. is possible when discussing LIVE webcast of the 2012 UCI MTB World Cup. We will thus further work with UCI to solve all other points.
Finally I'd like to clearly state that Freecaster is currently not webcasting the 2012 world cup purely because a) our contract comes to an end on 31/12/2011, b) the rights offer received to date would substantially increase our costs which is not an option. The fact that a new website is title sponsor of the world cup has no impact on our situation and didn't influence my decision.
Once again thank you and trust me, I'll work hard to bring you a lot of high quality LIVE webcasts in 2012.
Raymond Dulieu
(founder Freecaster.tv)
I would like to thank you all personally and in the name of the Freecaster crew for having tuned-in in numbers to watch the MTB worlds LIVE and replay.
Thanks to your support we should finish the season with a black eye and stand a better chance to be further operational in 2012.
It's too early to communicate on what we will do in 2012 but rest assured that I remain committed to webcasting LIVE as many MTB events as possible but I will only do so at the following conditions:
1. the TV signal must be HD
2. the race format must allow full coverage of the top 15
3. we must operate in a financially viable environment i.e. keep our costs down so that our revenues are sufficient to generate a profit to allow us to invest and grow
4. and as a consequence of point 4, access to the LIVE webcast must remain free
5. Rob Warner remains our commentator
Currently only point 5. is possible when discussing LIVE webcast of the 2012 UCI MTB World Cup. We will thus further work with UCI to solve all other points.
Finally I'd like to clearly state that Freecaster is currently not webcasting the 2012 world cup purely because a) our contract comes to an end on 31/12/2011, b) the rights offer received to date would substantially increase our costs which is not an option. The fact that a new website is title sponsor of the world cup has no impact on our situation and didn't influence my decision.
Once again thank you and trust me, I'll work hard to bring you a lot of high quality LIVE webcasts in 2012.
Raymond Dulieu
(founder Freecaster.tv)
This is right where I'm at right now. Since Rocky Roads claims to want Dirt, Freecaster, Tri-Ride, etc. keep filming and they strictly have advertising rights, as far as further coverage goes, I think it could be great.
On the other hand, I do not like the scandalous way the owner of Rocky Roads as gone about getting the advertising rights. The secrecy, the fib site-traffic numbers, the way he went about designing his site, so on...
And I still hate the UCI
I don't understand points 1, 3 and 4. especially 4.
On point 1, full HD, not every country, ISP, or end-user has access to streaming HD. wouldn't that limit the number of people that have access to the webcast?
I can understand point 3 actually, the need to remain profitable is self-evident , but I don't understand it in the context of point 4? I guess intuitively, I would think that wanting to give something away for free precludes making a profit. But maybe I'm underestimating the advertising/sponsorship potential in the sport.
Anyways, all I know is that I hope it works out. Freecaster has been a boon for me. DH mountain biking is the only sport I've ever followed (I'm not into basketball, football, soccer, baseball etc etc etc). Finally being able to watch the races live was amazing. I've really enjoyed these past 4 years, and it even motivated me to give racing a try. I enjoyed it, but the birth of my first son put a bit of a damper on any racing in the near future... but I'll be back. Also, and I've said it before, I'm very comfortable paying a good amount of money to be able to watch the races in the future.
So Ray, Freecaster, please... I implore you! make this work. Even if you have to "bend" a little on point 4....
On point 1, full HD, not every country, ISP, or end-user has access to streaming HD. wouldn't that limit the number of people that have access to the webcast?
I can understand point 3 actually, the need to remain profitable is self-evident , but I don't understand it in the context of point 4? I guess intuitively, I would think that wanting to give something away for free precludes making a profit. But maybe I'm underestimating the advertising/sponsorship potential in the sport.
Anyways, all I know is that I hope it works out. Freecaster has been a boon for me. DH mountain biking is the only sport I've ever followed (I'm not into basketball, football, soccer, baseball etc etc etc). Finally being able to watch the races live was amazing. I've really enjoyed these past 4 years, and it even motivated me to give racing a try. I enjoyed it, but the birth of my first son put a bit of a damper on any racing in the near future... but I'll be back. Also, and I've said it before, I'm very comfortable paying a good amount of money to be able to watch the races in the future.
So Ray, Freecaster, please... I implore you! make this work. Even if you have to "bend" a little on point 4....
Agreed ^. Many people in the US pay upwards of $50 for Pay Per View events, so it seems like spending $10-15 race should be a no-brainer for true fans of the sport. Also, having a pay per event instead of just a lump sum for Worlds allows people the flexibility to view the events they can fit into their daily schedule. I only missed one or two races from the free live feeds, but couldn't watch Worlds due to a wedding I had to shoot. Theoretically, Freecaster could have $0 profit from me personally, but I bought the Worlds pass and season DVD anyways to support Freecaster's efforts and as a 'thank you' for providing some amazing excitement for someone like me that couldn't make all the World Cups.
It would be interesting to know how the viewing numbers change free vs. pay. If 60,000 watch free, does that drop to 10,000 if you have to pay? (Grabbing numbers out of the air.) If so, how does that impact your advertising dollars?
It could be that Ray wants to keep it free on principle as well. If you are trying to pull new people into the sport, free is the way to go. It's only us fans that are going to pay to watch. And I would definitely pay to watch.
It could be that Ray wants to keep it free on principle as well. If you are trying to pull new people into the sport, free is the way to go. It's only us fans that are going to pay to watch. And I would definitely pay to watch.