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This is what's wrong with The Industry™

Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,613
20,422
Sleazattle
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,231
24,732
media blackout
i was notified by the shop i ordered the new bike for my son that the price was increased by $20 by Giant. they casually mentioned that wasn't bad, that higher end models are seeing more significant price increases.
 
Bikael Molton

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,037
1,176
El Lay
The companies with frame factories in China are hit the hardest by the tariff. I haven't noticed many high end components made in PRC yet, and the tariffs have in all likelihood slowed that process.

I don't think we can count on tariffs on China coming down under Biden.

slimshady said:
www.singletracks.com

Citing Pandemic Issues, Santa Cruz Bicycles Increases Retail Prices

Santa Cruz Bicycles has informed their distributors that they will be increasing their prices by 10% on average across bikes for model years 2021 and 2022.
www.singletracks.com www.singletracks.com
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Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,090
9,747
AK
Inquiring with Foes about their updated Mutz and whether the LR and LC will support a coil. Evidently they have no idea what the LR and LCs are on their own bikes. They seem to think that they hit the “sweet spot”, in their words. Brent understands stiff frames, but still zero about suspension.
Hi

As much as I'd like to be able to answer you technical questions, I can't. That information is not available at this time.

What I can tell you is that the leverage ratios of the new Mutz are going to be the same as the old Mutz. According to our customers and industry reviews we've found the sweet spot.

I wish I could be of more help. Thanks for reaching out.

Curtis
PS. And yes, 177 in the rear.
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HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,823
5,730
Jm_ said:
Inquiring with Foes about their updated Mutz and whether the LR and LC will support a coil. Evidently they have no idea what the LR and LCs are on their own bikes. They seem to think that they hit the “sweet spot”, in their words. Brent understands stiff frames, but still zero about suspension.
Click to expand...
67 deg HA is on the updated frame, when did they update it, 2003?
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,090
9,747
AK
HardtailHack said:
67 deg HA is on the updated frame, when did they update it, 2003?
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No, the geometry specs for the new updated frame are not on the main website yet. I found them though. Towards the bottom of the page, supposed to be available in May: https://www.ridefatbikes.ca/foes-mutz

This is probably what is keeping them in business. Those frames, as bad as they are, are one of the few FS options and there are definitely a few around here.
 
Bikael Molton

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,037
1,176
El Lay
The faux-35mm bar to fit into the 1960s-era road bike clamping system always put me off. I like high rise bars.

Otherwise I think 77Designz is neat, and I'm looking forward to seeing more products from them.
 
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Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,613
20,422
Sleazattle
johnbryanpeters said:
It's more like a copy writer misunderstands what they have been told by engineers.
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It looks like cold rolled metals have elongated grain structure in one direction giving them different directional properties. Cannot find any information on how much of a difference but it sounds like it is important for bending operations. I have been around machining processes for almost 30 years and have never seen anyone care about plate directions, pretty damn sure machining will have no effect as cutting tools should cleanly cut through any grain structure.

Perhaps they are being pedantic and aligning plate material along the load direction for the best case scenario, found a quality deviation and decided to recall. If so, good on them. But it makes the most sense that someone loaded stock incorrectly
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,231
24,732
media blackout
Westy said:
It looks like cold rolled metals have elongated grain structure in one direction giving them different directional properties. Cannot find any information on how much of a difference but it sounds like it is important for bending operations. I have been around machining processes for almost 30 years and have never seen anyone care about plate directions, pretty damn sure machining will have no effect as cutting tools should cleanly cut through any grain structure.

Perhaps they are being pedantic and aligning plate material along the load direction for the best case scenario, found a quality deviation and decided to recall. If so, good on them. But it makes the most sense that someone loaded stock incorrectly
Click to expand...
i have to deal with characteristic variations between machine & transverse directions on extruded polymer films too. on certain component types we have to specify the orientation on our drawings.
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,613
20,422
Sleazattle
jonKranked said:
i have to deal with characteristic variations between machine & transverse directions on extruded polymer films too. on certain component types we have to specify the orientation on our drawings.
Click to expand...

I have never seen a direction call out for plate aluminum or steel. Extrusions and bars kind of maintain their own orientation due to the shape of the desired stock. Now I am kind of interested in what the difference in strength is.
 
englertracing

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,583
1,078
La Verne
Westy said:
I have never seen a direction call out for plate aluminum or steel. Extrusions and bars kind of maintain their own orientation due to the shape of the desired stock. Now I am kind of interested in what the difference in strength is.
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On 7075 billet connecting rods that are unfortunate enough to be made from stock rather than a forging the grain is oriented the length of the rod.....
 
maxyedor

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,141
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
I can see grain structure becoming an issue when you combine a part that’s designed to be as piss-light as absolutely possible, and an engineer department that’s completely disconnected from the machine shop. Machinist either reprograms the part to reduce cycle times, or gets a deal on a different shape bar and makes the change without consulting engineer, grain structure flips 90 degrees and all hell breaks loose.

Engineers don’t consider the manufacturing process and how the part may get oriented within the stock, and machinists don’t consider the design and how part orientation may make a difference. If it’s not on the print it either means it doesn’t matter or nobody is considering it.
 
CrabJoe StretchPants

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
maxyedor said:
Engineers don’t consider the manufacturing process and how the part may get oriented within the stock, and machinists don’t consider the design and how part orientation may make a difference. If it’s not on the print it either means it doesn’t matter or nobody is considering it.
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Note to self: don't work with maxyedor
 
maxyedor

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,141
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
jonKranked said:
fixed.
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True, same thing for the machinist, a good one would think about it or at least ask about it, although generally if something isn’t called out on the print, I wouldn’t blame the machinist if it got “screwed up”. I tend to default to blaming the engineers because most of the engineers I’ve worked with are absolutely clueless when it comes to manufacturing. Machinist and welders read the print and, hopefully anyway, make the part to that print.


CrabJoe StretchPants said:
Note to self: don't work with maxyedor
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Why not? I’m fun to work with, I have fireworks in my desk drawer and bring the doggos to work sometimes.

But really, I seem to mainly get hired at places with massive breakdowns between engineering and manufacturing, which is why I generally get hired, to fix that.
 
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