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This is what's wrong with The Industry™

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,976
22,015
Sleazattle
Seriously, just buy 40 and have a few extras. Of all the things to complain about this seems pretty minor.
I always buy a few extra, small items that get dropped in my basement enter a portal to another dimension and it is nice to have a few spares on hand.
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,642
1,092
coloRADo
So I was looking at a new frame. Just cuz.

It was $3900 just for the frame? Jeebus

Then I found a complete bike with what I assume is the same frame for $3800

WTF?!?!?!
 

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,509
6,420
UK
Welcome to 2022.
It's not really anything new
2005-2009 Giant STP frames were £399 and the STP3 complete bike was £299. Exactly the same frame built with a basic Suntour XC fork, basic Alex rims/giant hubs, Kenda tyres, Giant finishing kit and Alivio groupset. It even came with Alloy flat pedals.
At the time the parts sold seperately on ebay netted just over £250.
Similar story for a lot of Giant's range back then.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,110
10,673
AK
And just like that, every pressure washing he's done plays through his head... I'll report back when I kill an upper headset bearing in mine. That usually takes me 4+ years (many bikes, avoid mud & rain, frequently wash but with low pressure). It does look like the design could allow water in easier but I tried to seal it with silicone.
There is really no defense of that design.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
21,946
21,467
Canaderp
Anyone wanna go to MSA? Lol! J/K!

I wonder if the WC will still be there.


And this


So whats this, the 2nd or 3rd time they've had a major incident with the gondola?

MSA being acquired by someone else might not be a bad thing. I've only been a few times, but it seems like the type of place that, at least for biking, gets by with as little maintenance and money put into the operations as possible.

Le Massif on the other hand has probably invested millions or some big number to summer activities over the last few.
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,484
4,212
sw ontario canada
So whats this, the 2nd or 3rd time they've had a major incident with the gondola?

MSA being acquired by someone else might not be a bad thing. I've only been a few times, but it seems like the type of place that, at least for biking, gets by with as little maintenance and money put into the operations as possible.

Le Massif on the other hand has probably invested millions or some big number to summer activities over the last few.

:stupid:

Pretty much my impression as well.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,436
890
So whats this, the 2nd or 3rd time they've had a major incident with the gondola?

MSA being acquired by someone else might not be a bad thing. I've only been a few times, but it seems like the type of place that, at least for biking, gets by with as little maintenance and money put into the operations as possible.

Le Massif on the other hand has probably invested millions or some big number to summer activities over the last few.
Yes, there has been a very serious incident in February 2020 and a couple of other (minor) failures in the past 2 years or so. People here have been angry for a while at the owner (Resort of the Canadian Rockies - RCR) for neglecting MSA. People feel they are basically milking the cow, sending the $$$ in the west, while doing the bare minimum to keep the resort going. At the same time, millions are being invested by the Club Med at Le Massif.

I don't see how they will manage to avoid scrapping the gondola and replacing it by a new one this time. The next step is probably one or more people dying if they keep on operating it like that. With the unanimous indignation following this recent failure, they won't be able to pretend they couldn't see it coming.

Litteraly everybody around here thinks that RCR can just fuck off and go screw up mountain resorts somewhere else...ideally as far away from here as possible.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,192
1,159
And just like that, every pressure washing he's done plays through his head... I'll report back when I kill an upper headset bearing in mine. That usually takes me 4+ years (many bikes, avoid mud & rain, frequently wash but with low pressure). It does look like the design could allow water in easier but I tried to seal it with silicone.
I'd imagine the Venn diagram of people who pressure wash their bikes after every ride to keep them looking pristine and who like Scott bullshit (lockouts, hidden shocks, headset routing) looks pretty close to a single circle.
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
I'd imagine the Venn diagram of people who pressure wash their bikes after every ride to keep them looking pristine and who like Scott bullshit (lockouts, hidden shocks, headset routing) looks pretty close to a single circle.
I bet if dangerholm comes out with a Scott/Syncros branded line of jorts he will have enough money to finance both his nonsense projects and Paul Aston's ones as well.
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,642
1,092
coloRADo
There's a good chance that complete bike uses a lower level carbon frame.
I'd agree if this was Santa Cruz. (CC vs C) It's not.

If you really want to know. It's Niner's WFO frame listed on their site vs online retailer full build (which is "on sale")

Maybe different model year? Not sure. Don't really care anymore. No appetite, totally turned off.

I'd love to support the local bros. But jeebus. Nope. (Actually, they are owned by a financial institution these days. But still, peeps need local jobs.)
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,976
22,015
Sleazattle
Litteraly everybody around here thinks that RCR can just fuck off and go screw up mountain resorts somewhere else...ideally as far away from here as possible.

Vail Resorts says hold my beer

You can't have a lift failure if you don't have anyone to turn on the lift
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,110
10,673
AK
For the technical experts here. What’s wrong with the Gambler? DH forum and all?
Well, trunion for one. Giant pivot bolts I assume are made of alu with TINY torx fittings relative to the friction/surface of the bolt:

1670910271355.png


On the plus side, they haven't totally fucked it up yet like the Spark and it has a somewhat clean design, but you can tell they are just itching to fuck it all up:

INTEGRATION
Integration is becoming a more important topic at SCOTT as time goes by. We spent a lot of time here looking at previous concepts and asking ourselves if we really wanted to grandfather into the new bike performance compromises due to old standards – we didn’t. Enter our proprietary chain guide / bash guard solution.
It actually does seem pretty well sorted though, I remember riding the old scissor WTF design at Trestle and it was nothing to write home about. The bolt/pivot thing is a pet peeve with many designs. Would bang if it wasn't from Scott.
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,642
1,092
coloRADo
Vail Resorts says hold my beer

You can't have a lift failure if you don't have anyone to turn on the lift
Was just in Breckenridge for 4 days. It's been a while due to covid and whatnot. But since 2 years ago they added a new lift and updated an old one. Both much needed and a good investment. The new one may be a six pack. Not sure, didn't ride it. The other was a slow school fixed double. Now detachable quad. I was impressed.

At least here in CO, I have no beef with VR.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,976
22,015
Sleazattle
Was just in Breckenridge for 4 days. It's been a while due to covid and whatnot. But since 2 years ago they added a new lift and updated an old one. Both much needed and a good investment. The new one may be a six pack. Not sure, didn't ride it. The other was a slow school fixed double. Now detachable quad. I was impressed.

At least here in CO, I have no beef with VR.
They bought one of our local mountains. Things are different here, land is leased by the NFS so there is no resort or town at the bottom of the hill so it is a haul to get there from anywhere people live. They cut employee access to on site housing, RV parking and other perks. No one wanted to work for shit wages with a sketchy hour commute up a mountain pass for less money than they could make at their local Starbucks. So they didn't have people to plow lots or run lifts. Last few winters they were typically only running 1/3rd of the lifts and people often arrive to find few open parking lots.

They clearly haven't fixed things as the pass was a shitshow this past weekend as people were having to park on the side of the highway. There are a lot of companies out there that are willing to invest in infrastructure but not labor.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,838
4,881
Champery, Switzerland
Well, trunion for one. Giant pivot bolts I assume are made of alu with TINY torx fittings relative to the friction/surface of the bolt:

View attachment 186223

On the plus side, they haven't totally fucked it up yet like the Spark and it has a somewhat clean design, but you can tell they are just itching to fuck it all up:



It actually does seem pretty well sorted though, I remember riding the old scissor WTF design at Trestle and it was nothing to write home about. The bolt/pivot thing is a pet peeve with many designs. Would bang if it wasn't from Scott.

Trunion is debate-able. What’s your criticism exactly?

The huge alu bolts with a T30 have never been a problem for me. T30 isn’t small. I hear what you are saying but living with a Gambler in a bike park, this is a non issue… IF you have a T30 which isn’t on your multitool. You would prefer an 8mm Allen?

What current DH bike satisfies your criteria?