This is what's wrong with The Industry™
- Thread starter Electric_City
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It took a few hours to get the feeling back in my feet so I probably wouldn't have been able to tell one way or another.
Rocky Mountain Instinct Powerplay - ebike. I wish they made a non-e version with the exact same suspension layout and geo. The axle path on the Instinct/Altitude Powerplay (same bike, different shock & shock mount) is pretty moderate for a high-pivot; end of travel is pretty much back at zero. Closest thing I know of would be a Hope HB916 or GT Force, but those are longer travel. Some newer DH bikes have a similar axle path - the Session and Commencal for example (last few versions of the Commencal were much more rearward).
GT
Hope
Session
Commencal
That's not relevant to my criticism of heavy, high pivot mid-travel bikes. Weight and bad pedaling (why I think this category of bike makes no sense) go out the window when you add a battery & motor. For anyone who actually owns a bike like this, I can't imagine that the plushness is significantly better than a Ransom with 10-20mm more travel, and I guarantee it's much heavier while pedaling and climbing worse. My thesis is if you want to improve the plushness of a light, nimble, good pedaling Trail or All-Mountain bike, adding a little travel will have less negative effect on those other traits than making it a high pivot w/idler.
Sorry, that wasn't meant to be a reply your post. However, I don't see the benefit of high pivot bikes as being any plusher, I see them as not getting hung up as easily (my DH bike is a pedal only mid-high pivot design and it holds true there as well). The only downside of the design on a trail bike assuming good anti-squat numbers and reasonably restrained chainstay lengthening would be efficiency loss from the idler (supposedly ~2%).
I have the nagging doubt that if I got a HP bike there'd be too many days where I'd be absolutely exhausted and granny gearing up some climb only to hear any noise or friction from the idler and lose the plot. Blame everything on the idler drag and complexity and end up hating it.
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I blame whatever axle path I have for anything I can't do well.
Actually, I probably should buy a HP bike just so I can blame lack of pop for casing everything
should certainly help
yep, all bikes are exactly the same, nothing matters
Yes, I agree it is totally my bike's fault for my shitty manualing skills. Well and everything else. Is there a bike that can give me balls? HA
Dual crown DH bikes are pretty fucken good at thatIs there a bike that can give me balls? HA
The older I get, the smarter I was.
signature/motto/slogan/custom title/
/SARCASM
rm is full of more princess-n-pea mofos than just about any other site or forum i've ever been on...
If it was anything different...would you even be here?
signature/motto/slogan/custom title/
/SARCASM
rm is full of more princess-n-pea mofos than just about any other site or forum i've ever been on...
I mean, it's one thing to talk to people about how to create a macro in excel (I'm talking some other forum). But to put on a dual crown fork on a bike that's not designed for that? C'mon. We got shit to figure out here and it's of the utmost importance!
i'm just here for when @kidwoo, @rideit, and @Electric_City team up for the ultimate cross-atlantic cage match vs. @Gary, @sethimus, and @iRider !!!If it was anything different...would you even be here?
I mean, it's one thing to talk to people about how to create a macro in excel (I'm talking some other forum). But to put on a dual crown fork on a bike that's not designed for that? C'mon. We got shit to figure out here and it's of the utmost importance!
I don't get how guys can manual well on long chainstay bikes. I'm really amazed if they can manual on a bike that grows from long to really long as you lean back on it. I haven't ridden a high pivot since my Super 8, but I just know I wouldn't be able to manual a modern one.
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it's just harder to get the front wheel up to the balance point. But from that point it doesn't really cause a lot more of a problem than any long travel bike to maintain balance. Which. Given that rear suspension actually makes maintaining balance easier than on a hardtail. it's simply going to be slightly different rather than "difficult"
The last few longer travel high pivot bikes I've pissed about on were all (as is fashionable) pretty long wheelbase and reach and 29" wheelers. So no surprise that they were an absolute chore to raise the front on. But none couldn't be manualled.
No different than the learning curve going from light short bikes to heavy long ones, Especially Eebs. If you can manual fairly compitently already you should crack finding balance point within a few goes and a few goes more to start holding 'em.
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wtf? one rotation is one rotation
Ya bunch ay Fannies!
More force effectiveness.
while i can wheelie this thing, attempts at manuals are pretty pathetic. 18.5" static cs, grows ~2" at full travel. but yeah, a beast in the chunk. cornering dynamics are discernably... different. i haven't ridden a modern hp (most are really more mid) bike tho; curious to try.
You watched a 10 minute video in TWO minutes.
It's no surprise you didn't understand what you were watching.
Hand your kilt back
I honestly find practicing on an actual bike a whole lot better at getting manuals dialled than looking at graphs.while i can wheelie this thing, attempts at manuals are pretty pathetic. 18.5" static cs, grows ~2" at full travel. but yeah, a beast in the chunk. cornering dynamics are discernably... different. i haven't ridden a modern hp (most are really more mid) bike tho; curious to try.
It's generally the easier option too, maybe that's just me tho.
i was just baffled over the initial claim
Actually, not a given for everyone. I find it easier to manual a hardtail, they are more precise and responsive without the squish.
did you listen to the whole thing?! I suggest you start here:
Yeah. Fair enough. We don't even all manual the exact same way and the type of bike you learned on or have done it most on would make a difference to which you find easier too.
By "easier" I actually just meant FS gives a slightly larger window of safety from looping out and because of the rear suspension the same level of precision a hardtail requires isn't always needed.
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Yes. Of course.
His "opinion" is worthless.
the testing he carried out disproved his previous "opinion"