[go-ride.com]

I'm looking to build up a 4x/Dj frame as a shop demo and some thrashing by myself. Ideally this is what I want:

1. Single pivot for durability – I don’t think multi linkage suspensions are necessary for 4x racing and certainly not for DJ. A single pivot for a given weight and quality lever should be stronger and less expensive than a multi.

2. Around 4” travel – 3” seems to be optimal for the 4x racer, but I would like a bit more for taking the edge off missed landings and such.

3. Sub 17” chainstays – I’d like to go even shorter, but 17” is the max I would consider. Short chainstays corner better at 4x speeds and make for a shorter WB that fits in steep DJs better.

4. 7 lbs. with air shock – Realistically it will probably be closer to 8 lbs., but I’d like the bike to build up at 30 lbs or less, so 7 would be ideal and even then I will have to go with some lighter parts.

5. Retail under $1000 for the frame – I’m trying to build a demo that will be affordable enough to get customers interested in buying one. 4X frames that are closer to $2000 are just not realistic for anyone but the most dedicated racer or someone with a great sponsorship.

6. Has to be a frame that Go-ride.com can sell – we don’t sell big name bikes like Kona, Giant or Trek. I would be open to any smaller brand that would be willing to set up a dealership up with Go-ride.

A few options I’ve been checking out:

1. Turner Rail - At this moment is the leading the race. It is very close to what I want, but is a bit more $ and a bit heavier. Everything else is great, I even have them in stock.
Rail

2. Cortina Europa MX - looks really sweet, but doesn’t seem to exist yet and will probably retail for more than a $1000.
Europa MX

3. Planet X Splitail – has a drawing that looks promising. I would guess the price will be good and function should be decent. Not sure when it will be available.

4. Foes FXR 4X – too expensive for this project.

5. Yeti 4X – too expensive for this project.

There must be some others out there. Hopefully, some Monkeys have seen something I haven’t or have some more info on the Planet X bike. I’ve got a call into them.

 

[DHblur]

Regardless of the price, if you can get your hands on the Yeti.. DO IT!!!! It's a limited product numbered at under 100 and I will guarentee that you won't regret it. Best 4X/DJ bike ever!

 

[Transcend]

hey scott, what is US msrp on a patriot air? I think it is about 1400 cnd...so that would be right up your alley?

 

[Transcend]

Originally posted by DHblur
Regardless of the price, if you can get your hands on the Yeti.. DO IT!!!! It's a limited product numbered at under 100 and I will guarentee that you won't regret it. Best 4X/DJ bike ever!

And utterly pointless, as he cannot sell them when they are that expensive, and that limited edition!

 

[Curb Hucker]

Scott,

Build up:

2004 Rail w/ Fox AVA air shock
Fox Vanilla RLC or DJ1 fork
Atomlab Trailpimp Wheelset, Whole set, or rims with Hadley & XT Hubs
Lopes Bling Blings
RF Diablous Cranks (good item to promo on the bike)
Sram Drivetrain
Hayes Mags
A-Frame Pedals
Thomson stem and post
Protapers
King Headset



That would be a good demo bike, frame ya want, and suitable parts spec, thats not all high end or all budget

Don

 

[Evel Monkey]

Perhaps this is how Ventana should have marketed the Pantera?

 

[lanman]

If you can get the Haro Extreme in a frame set that would be a really good bike, mick hannah raced one at sea otter, with a shorter stroke shock you can get 4 or 5" of travel.

 

[DßR]

trailpimps on a slalom bike? Singletracks will be 2lbs less for the wheelset....rest of it sounds pretty good.....


The ultimate dirt jumping bike is a hardtail, either way. For 4x, I suppose some people would prefer suspension but I'm not really sure about that whole deal.....

 

[kidwoo]

It would seem to me that the Rail is too expensive too. It also has a fixed amount of (too much) travel. It sounds like the Planet X would be the better choice. It has some adjustability with shock mounting, choice of shock length and therefore travel.

Assuming it's significantly cheaper than the rail, I personally would feel better riding a bike that wouldn't put me into debt just to beat the crap out of the thing on the backside of doubles.

 

[Transcend]

Originally posted by DßR
trailpimps on a slalom bike? Singletracks will be 2lbs less for the wheelset....rest of it sounds pretty good.....


The ultimate dirt jumping bike is a hardtail, either way. For 4x, I suppose some people would prefer suspension but I'm not really sure about that whole deal.....

I agree. My MsIsle is the best Dj bike i have ever ridden, bar none. FS bikes seems to keep bogged down, suck up the lip too much, or catapult you ass end first depending on the take off.

For mtnx, a simple 4" travel single pivot is perfect with an air shock.

 

[Curb Hucker]

Originally posted by DßR
trailpimps on a slalom bike? Singletracks will be 2lbs less for the wheelset....rest of it sounds pretty good.....

I say trailpimp because they are a strong rim, which is a good thing to have on a demo bike. And when jumping ive always thought that a stronger bigger rim like a Trailpimp or Mag30 was a good Idea. Keep in mind, DJ/4x bikes also make kickass urban rides, where a big rim is a necessity.

 

[HRDTLBRO]

What about the Specialized enduro SX. I think it's adjustable from 3-4.5. It comes with a Thomson post and stiff rear spring. Plus the frame itself is damn strong. The frame is $1090 I believe.

 

[Spunger]

I really like the Yeti hardtail that's a DJ frame. Looks very beefy.

Doesn't Azonic have a DJ/4x full suspension frame?

I'd concentrate on a good build too. Maybe like.....Thomson stem/seatpost, Holzfeller cranks and gigapipe BB, Evil guide, Answer Pro Taper bars? Something with a reliable track record for strength etc...

Wheels maybe a built set of King or Hadley hubs on EX721 rims? Or maybe the Arrow FRX rims? Something not too wide so you aren't giving a 2.35 tire a retarded profile.

Fork wise something like a DJ from marzocchi of some sort or maybe a sherman modified for short travel. There was a sick proto fork I think of Arron Chase's bike. That fork had very limited travel. Would be perfect though.

Good Luck guys, you guys gotta have some frames in stock you could write off as a "demo" or somethin

 

[Curb Hucker]

Originally posted by HRDTLBRO
What about the Specialized enduro SX. I think it's adjustable from 3-4.5. It comes with a Thomson post and stiff rear spring. Plus the frame itself is damn strong. The frame is $1090 I believe.

for you and the guy that said get a haro, did you not notice Scott said no big brand name bikes?

or hardtails

 

[HRDTLBRO]

Ah, go-ride, whoops. Sorry to change the topic, but do you guys still have some 2002 Shiver SC's?

 

[go-ride.com]

Originally posted by Transcend
hey scott, what is US msrp on a patriot air? I think it is about 1400 cnd...so that would be right up your alley?

It looks like that is a 6" travel bike. Do they offer a 4" version?

I agree that the Yeti is just too expensive for resale.

 

[go-ride.com]

Originally posted by Evel Monkey
Perhaps this is how Ventana should have marketed the Pantera?

That's what I ordered, but then found out that Ventana sold what they had left to Cambria and is not making any more. No point in having a demo bike that I can't sell.

I already own a Chamuco, so I know i would have liked the Pantera.

 

[SuspectDevice]

It seems as if no-one makes that frame, at least at a reasonable price. I was waiting on a Patriot to fill that niche for myself, But I found a used Dirtworks that is probabally an even better bike for me. Of course Dirtworks sucks to deal with so I wouldn't exactly reccomend trying to sell any, and their prices are steep to boot.

I think it would really behoove someone to start making a nice lightweight single pivot with good geometry from slalom. Lots and Lots of people out there want a bike like that, and the only ones that exist are custom one-offs like the team hecklers, and the Haro 4x bikes. Those bikes are awesome, but once PM's get ahold of those designs and turn them into trail bikes they get heavy, long and squishy...

 

[MMcG]

The Pantera would have worked well - does it have to be able to run a coil shock?

Another one that pops into my head would be a Belair, but it is very hard to run a coil shock on that frame (as you well know Scott)and the future of Balfa is in major doubt so it's not a great company to be touting for future sales unfortunately.


hmmm....sounds like a Go-Ride.com special bike project to me a la the El Cuervo - Bring back the Pantera to life working with Sherwood to tweek it a little bit and have it fill a new and much needed niche.

 

[go-ride.com]

Originally posted by lanman
If you can get the Haro Extreme in a frame set that would be a really good bike, mick hannah raced one at sea otter, with a shorter stroke shock you can get 4 or 5" of travel.

Not too interested in that one. I'd have to buy aftermarket shocks and I'm not sure if they offer as a frame only?

 

[Mattoid]

what about that arrow dss 3 bike? 2.5-3-4.5 inches of travel with a cove style concentric pivot. I recal the numbers being 23 in for the tt and 16 for the cs.

 

[Instigator]

Most of these have more travel than your looking for, but I figure why not mention them.

1. Nicolai UFO-DS

2. Foes FXR 4X

3. Mountaincycle fury

4. Santa cruz Heckler


I thought about Balfa also, but after selling the company, I would wait and see if there is any customer service left.

 

[roee]

Originally posted by MMcG

hmmm....sounds like a Go-Ride.com special bike project to me a la the El Cuervo - Bring back the Pantera to life working with Sherwood to tweek it a little bit and have it fill a new and much needed niche.

Hell yea, get Ventana to make a Turner Rail competitor, 4" of travel, and I'd get one to replace my HT.
I'd like a full seattube though.

(Went off topic there )

 

[MMcG]

The hard part in Scott's quest is the under $1,000 dollars criteria -even the Pantera when it was being sold was more along the lines of a $1,200 frame set wasn't it?

 

[Transcend]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
It looks like that is a 6" travel bike. Do they offer a 4" version?

I agree that the Yeti is just too expensive for resale.

Hmm the price structure I have from Orange says they have a 4" Patriot air with swinger on it? You may want to check with them directly.

 

[Sandwich]

Seriously. You sell the Arrow, and it's only 1145, just above what your aim is. It's exactly as you specified, less Multi-pivot system. i believe you can put an airshock on it, and it's 26" compatible. I hit my first rythm section ever on it with 4" and 26" wheels. It's a sweet bike.

There's also the cove hooker, I think it was called, which was a little DS bike with a swingarm and 4" of travel. A short shock and a sloping top tube would help.

 

[Sandwich]

Also, I saw a cheetah DS frame I was interested in. I found out later that it's actually a prowler with a short shock. Not sure if this is true or not, and cheeta isn't in business, but you may be able to apply this to some other big swingarmed bike.

I still think the arrow is the way to go.

 

[go-ride.com]

Originally posted by Transcend
I agree. My MsIsle is the best Dj bike i have ever ridden, bar none. FS bikes seems to keep bogged down, suck up the lip too much, or catapult you ass end first depending on the take off.

For mtnx, a simple 4" travel single pivot is perfect with an air shock.

I've got a DMR Rhythmn built up with a 3" DJ1, 24" wheels and a rear disc brake. It serves as my BMX style DJ/Skate Park bike. I'm looking for something for our customers that want a little cush or ride less than perfect DJs.

 

[Transcend]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
I've got a DMR Rhythmn built up with a 3" DJ1, 24" wheels and a rear disc brake. It serves as my BMX style DJ/Skate Park bike. I'm looking for something for our customers that want a little cush or ride less than perfect DJs.

I hear ya. If the 4" pat i have listed is at the proper price point, then you may be set.

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/2004bikes/bikes.php?bike=patriot

Scroll down a bit.

Rear Shock Swinger Air 3 Way

They also have this

Frame - Patriot XC w/Swinger Air 4 MSRP £1149.95

That msrp seems high tho, as the other patriots i have listed are all about 14-1500 cnd depending on shock

 

[HTFR]

maby one of the balfa frames.

 

[go-ride.com]

Originally posted by Mattoid
what about that arrow dss 3 bike? 2.5-3-4.5 inches of travel with a cove style concentric pivot. I recal the numbers being 23 in for the tt and 16 for the cs.

I owned one of those a couple of seasons ago. I really liked, but it was a bit long in the TT for me (5'8"). I ran a 35mm stem to help, but it was still a bit longer than I like. The durability was really good, I even took it out for a few DH days with the linkage set at 4.5" of travel. I tried 26" wheels on it, as long as you ran 3.5" of travel or less they were fine, but at 4.5" a 2.3 tire would rub the cable mount on the back of the seat tube. As for 4X racing the around the BB pivot is not so hot for sprinting. Set at the 2.5" mode it sprinted decently, but any more travel and it was a mushy pedaler.

 

[-BB-]

Whoops... guess it pays to read through a bit before you post.

Originally posted by go-ride.com
I'm looking to build up a 4x/Dj frame as a shop demo and some thrashing by myself. Ideally this is what I want:

1. Single pivot for durability – I don’t think multi linkage suspensions are necessary for 4x racing and certainly not for DJ. A single pivot for a given weight and quality lever should be stronger and less expensive than a multi.

2. Around 4” travel – 3” seems to be optimal for the 4x racer, but I would like a bit more for taking the edge off missed landings and such.

3. Sub 17” chainstays – I’d like to go even shorter, but 17” is the max I would consider. Short chainstays corner better at 4x speeds and make for a shorter WB that fits in steep DJs better.

4. 7 lbs. with air shock – Realistically it will probably be closer to 8 lbs., but I’d like the bike to build up at 30 lbs or less, so 7 would be ideal and even then I will have to go with some lighter parts.

5. Retail under $1000 for the frame – I’m trying to build a demo that will be affordable enough to get customers interested in buying one. 4X frames that are closer to $2000 are just not realistic for anyone but the most dedicated racer or someone with a great sponsorship.

6. Has to be a frame that Go-ride.com can sell – we don’t sell big name bikes like Kona, Giant or Trek. I would be open to any smaller brand that would be willing to set up a dealership up with Go-ride.

The Arrow DS-3 was a GREAT frame for me.
It isn't a single pivot, but who cares... that thing was stiff and it handles GREAT!! Price is about $1000
The stays are designed for a beefy 24in, but it can handle up to a 2.25in 26'r

The one in this pic is FUGLY, but the newer ones look good.
The City-lights paintjob ROCKS

 

[MMcG]

Originally posted by Transcend
I hear ya. If the 4" pat i have listed is at the proper price point, then you may be set.

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/2004bikes/bikes.php?bike=patriot

Scroll down a bit.

Rear Shock Swinger Air 3 Way

They also have this

Frame - Patriot XC w/Swinger Air 4 MSRP £1149.95

That msrp seems high tho, as the other patriots i have listed are all about 14-1500 cnd depending on shock

Wouldn't the Patriot Single fit the bill among the various options if he were to use a complete Patriot as a demo? Or is the coil shock the no-no in that set up?

 

[Evel Monkey]

Originally posted by Transcend
I hear ya. If the 4" pat i have listed is at the proper price point, then you may be set.

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/2004bikes/bikes.php?bike=patriot

Scroll down a bit.

Rear Shock Swinger Air 3 Way

They also have this

Frame - Patriot XC w/Swinger Air 4 MSRP £1149.95

That msrp seems high tho, as the other patriots i have listed are all about 14-1500 cnd depending on shock

Am I just nuts here, I don't see a Pat. for that price or travel (it states 6in travel on specs sheet) at all.

All prices are listed at UK Pounds, roughly 1pound/.56cents . That = $1770 for the lowest price frame.

If there is a lesser travel and a lower price Pat, let me know as I am seriously interested

 

[go-ride.com]

Originally posted by Instigator
Most of these have more travel than your looking for, but I figure why not mention them.

1. Nicolai UFO-DS

2. Foes FXR 4X

3. Mountaincycle fury

4. Santa cruz Heckler


I thought about Balfa also, but after selling the company, I would wait and see if there is any customer service left.

The Nicolai looks really cool, but has a $1700 price tag...ouch. I like everything else about that bike. From the looks of the shock I would think it has 5". Does anyone know how much travel?

FXR 4X has the same $1700 price tag.

The MC Fury looks to be a trail bike. It wouldn't feel too confident casing jumps on that swingarm or mono seatmast.

A Heckler at 4" would probably be a good bike, but it comes with 5" which is a bit much. Even 4" is pushing it for good DJing.

No more Balfa's until we find out if they will be around next year.

 

[dw]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
I'm looking to build up a 4x/Dj frame as a shop demo and some thrashing by myself. Ideally this is what I want:

1. Single pivot for durability – I don’t think multi linkage suspensions are necessary for 4x racing and certainly not for DJ. A single pivot for a given weight and quality lever should be stronger and less expensive than a multi.

2. Around 4” travel – 3” seems to be optimal for the 4x racer, but I would like a bit more for taking the edge off missed landings and such.

3. Sub 17” chainstays – I’d like to go even shorter, but 17” is the max I would consider. Short chainstays corner better at 4x speeds and make for a shorter WB that fits in steep DJs better.

4. 7 lbs. with air shock – Realistically it will probably be closer to 8 lbs., but I’d like the bike to build up at 30 lbs or less, so 7 would be ideal and even then I will have to go with some lighter parts.

5. Retail under $1000 for the frame – I’m trying to build a demo that will be affordable enough to get customers interested in buying one. 4X frames that are closer to $2000 are just not realistic for anyone but the most dedicated racer or someone with a great sponsorship.

6. Has to be a frame that Go-ride.com can sell – we don’t sell big name bikes like Kona, Giant or Trek. I would be open to any smaller brand that would be willing to set up a dealership up with Go-ride.

A few options I’ve been checking out:

1. Turner Rail - At this moment is the leading the race. It is very close to what I want, but is a bit more $ and a bit heavier. Everything else is great, I even have them in stock.
Rail

2. Cortina Europa MX - looks really sweet, but doesn’t seem to exist yet and will probably retail for more than a $1000.
Europa MX

3. Planet X Splitail – has a drawing that looks promising. I would guess the price will be good and function should be decent. Not sure when it will be available.

4. Foes FXR 4X – too expensive for this project.

5. Yeti 4X – too expensive for this project.

There must be some others out there. Hopefully, some Monkeys have seen something I haven’t or have some more info on the Planet X bike. I’ve got a call into them.

Its too bad that you are not down with the linkage bikes, for a 4X bike and dirtjumping, 4X especially, wasted energy in the suspension means less accereation, and a disadvantage either way. Some linkage bikes (dw-link bikes for example) can be extremely durable, with stiffer rear ends than conventional single pivots for the same weight. (and vise versa for some other linkage designs) Its all in the bike design though. Not all frame designs are created equal, no matter how similar they look to the naked eye.

The Hollowpoint MTX fits every one of your requirements to a tee except for #1 and possibly #6. I dont know if any are available still . It was short run, but the bike absolutely rips.

Good luck Scott!

dw

 

[Rabie]

Originally posted by go-ride.com
The Nicolai looks really cool, but has a $1700 price tag...ouch. I like everything else about that bike. From the looks of the shock I would think it has 5". Does anyone know how much travel?

3.5"/4.25"/5" (7.5" x 2")

 

[Transcend]

Originally posted by MMcG
Wouldn't the Patriot Single fit the bill among the various options if he were to use a complete Patriot as a demo? Or is the coil shock the no-no in that set up?

All of the coil bikes are 6", a good DJ bike you would, in my opinion, want a good air shock on. The suspension is just there to take off the edge.

Evel - According to the info I have from orange, there is definetly a 4" patriot. In fact here is one that one of my team guys is on this season. It now has a 5th element air shock on it however, not that beat down fox coil. It is an older model, but the 4" option is still available as far as I can tell? I will look into it this evening for you guys.

As for pricing, the stuff on the site seems AWEFULLY high. It is MSRP in pounds sterling. My pricing sheet lists some stuff cheaper, but im not sure why so I don't want to jump to any conclusions.

 

[-BB-]

Originally posted by dw
Its too bad that you are not down with the linkage bikes, for a 4X bike and dirtjumping, 4X especially, wasted energy in the suspension means less accereation, and a disadvantage either way. Some linkage bikes (dw-link bikes for example) can be extremely durable, with stiffer rear ends than conventional single pivots for the same weight. (and vise versa for some other linkage designs) Its all in the bike design though. Not all frame designs are created equal, no matter how similar they look to the naked eye.

The Hollowpoint MTX fits every one of your requirements to a tee except for #1 and possibly #6. I dont know if any are available still . It was short run, but the bike absolutely rips.

Good luck Scott!

dw

WHAT!!!

But I wanted one!!!

Bastard!!

 

[MMcG]

Originally posted by -BB-
WHAT!!!

But I wanted one!!!

Bastard!!

Just wait a little bit and I bet Knuckleslammer who posts here from time to time will be selling his before too long.