[The Mad Haderer]

My suggestion: have someone literate write the letter.

why bother with one letter...bombardment seems to be just about the only thing that will get any attention.

I would suggest the community suggesting one or two venues ONLY rather than just saying anywhere but here. They could have the NATS at Fontana if we arent careful....

 

[Transcend]

why bother with one letter...bombardment seems to be just about the only thing that will get any attention.

I would suggest the community suggesting one or two venues ONLY rather than just saying anywhere but here. They could have the NATS at Fontana if we arent careful....

I agree wholeheartedly. However, a rushed letter full of gramatical errors, typos and spelling errors is not going to further the cause. It simply promotes the stereotype that downhillers are morons. People who care about their cause generally take the extra 2 mins to spell check or use a a dictionnary.

I'm not trying to be a spelling nazi, but if you want to be taken seriously by a large organization, at least take the task of letter writing seriously.

 

[NateH]

Hey guys, I know alot of you are totally done with NORBA but if even you guys could send them some letters it would help. It is bulk we need. We need to show them that it might actually affect them if they don't listen. I know that sounds like a lot to do but, little steps....

 

[BRIANBUELL]

I totally agree

 

[PatBranch]

Hey guys, I know alot of you are totally done with NORBA but if even you guys could send them some letters it would help. It is bulk we need. We need to show them that it might actually affect them if they don't listen. I know that sounds like a lot to do but, little steps....

Exactly...but they must be well written to make an impact. I will write one although I don't have a year license yet.

-Quality and Quanity-

 

[DHanamal]

Whats up everyone, i just sent this out to Steve Johnson and Jim Ochowicz, i think it is a good idea you all do the same or something like it. If we all conduct this issue with class and respect our collective efforts could make a difference! Join in

Dear Steve Johnson and Jim Ochowicz
My name is Brian Buell, NORBA # 218052, I am a Semi Pro Gravity Rider racing for RotecCycles and I will be traveling to many Venues this year including, Mt St Ann Canada, Snowmass, Vermont, US Open ect... These places make for great races becuase of the Vertical Drop, important for DH. Great terrain and a long 3-6 min course that will weed out the men from the boys. Now after presenting this information, it is obvious that Sonoma and the Infinion Raceway is not a proper place to hold a large DH event, let alone the National Championships. A raceway might be a great place for a XC race and mountaincross but holds no place for a world class, supposivly, DH race that will crown the best rider in the nation. This course will not showcase the best overall DH rider but only the best sprinter due to the lack of terrain(rocks, roots, logs ect). This needs to be changed. The possible solution that has been discussed by many is Deer Valley holding the DH NAT Champs the week before Sanoma. This is a great course perfect for a NAT Championship as it is very popular among DH riders of all classes. I was planning on attending Mammoth for the Nats but since this change was made i have absolutely no desire on attending a Nats at Sonoma. I look foreward to riding NORBA every year and esspecially the National Championships but of the look of things this year i am not to stoked about the situation! Please, everyone at NORBA, from a commited rider, listion to the many many people like me trying to make DH mountain bike riding better for all. Thank you for your time and consideration and hopefully this situation can be solved, thoughtfully, rationally and for the better. Gravity racers pay their dues each season and deserve better, much better.

Brian Buell
P.S. I respect all XC racers and appreciate everything they do for the sport yet they cannot dictate where large races like the NAT Champs are held.

Spell check broken?

 

[Threepointtwo]

I am sending emails to everybody at USA Cycling suggesting that the DH champions be crowned at Deer Valley. Here is a link to the email page.

 

[W4S]

Short and sweet.



Dear Norba:

As a concerned USACycling member, license No.________, I do not feel it is appropriate that the downhill National Championships be awarded at the Cougar Mountain Classic at Infenion Raceway. The downhill course at this venue does not allow for the rider to truly demonstrate the skill necessary to be awarded National Champion stature, therefore I do not feel that this race would accurately gauge who the most skilled rider in their category would be. As such, I will not be attending this event and I request that Norba award the National Championships at a more appropriate venue.

Thank You,

 

[stiksandstones]

Can someone elaborate why all the effort/letters etc...to NORBA? You are attempting to fix something that can not be repaired, I am not trying to diss, just wondering why...

I was involved with NORBA events from 1987 to 2004 and in those 17 years saw few of them with ran by a governing body that wanted to help make gravity events succeed. You people are wasting your time, they will never care about DH, 4x, slalom, super d, etc....so sending a letter might just do the usual-put a band-aid on the situation.

The goal in racing is to have a national championship event to choose the #1 american rider on that day AND to have a legit series of races to determine an overall best rider. This only matters for personal satisfaction and getting sponsors (and for the companies, sell more products because it won a 'title'). This all must be attained without the assistance of NORBA.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge can chime in about any developements with ABA going to sea otter-about starting their new governing body-although I can only imagine after seeing the sea otter they might have thought MTB racing was pretty gay.

Again, not trying to fling sh1t, just would like some reasons why everyone always try to fix NORBA?

 

[Threepointtwo]

I just got a call from Justin Rogers, the National Events Director at USA Cycling and here's what he had to say.

The UCI has designated that for a National Championship to be recognized, it must be run by a particular date. I the past, NORBA has largely ignored this rule but they will not get away with it this year. The proper date is July 16th but NORBA received a waiver to run the race on the following weekend (the Mammoth date). When Mammoth fell through, the called every other possible venue but no other venue could take the race on this date. Moving the DH championships to Deer Valley would mean that the UCI would not recognize the US national champion.

Any suggestions? Also, the flaming emails are not really helping - except they may make you feel better.

 

[stiksandstones]

Here is a thought and yes, another old geezer "I remember when" stik-ism....

88', 89' Mammoth held their own "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP", it was not recognized by the UCI-but it still carried some validity. Granted this was early times of MTB, but he who won was 'world champion'....hell Ned signed a pretty nice Pro-Tec deal based on that race. I would guess there would be some legal issues doing this sort of thing now-and there is no issue with the current UCI worlds, etc...

My point is, the sport is at the point where you could care less about being recognized by the UCI-we do not even choose the worlds team based on the national championship event-SO.....why couldn't anyone just put on a national championship event? I am sure USAC owns the rights (sounds hilarious) to the term 'national championship' but I am telling you....MUST GET AWAY FROM NORBA.

 

[W4S]

Again, not trying to fling sh1t, just would like some reasons why everyone always try to fix NORBA?

because nobody has DONE anything different yet? so far, it's still the only restaurant in town.

 

[DHCorky]

It looks like there is some reasoning behind NORBA's decision. As much as we do not like it Infineon might be the only solution. We could have a non-UCI recognized race but with the state of racing in this country we cannot really stand on our own.

Stik, it is hard to just abandon NORBA. I would love to but anyone that wants to race outside of this country is stuck going through NORBA's BS.

The NORBA Mountain States Cup series kicks every other series ass. NORBA can have a good National series if they wanted but they choose not to. NORBA is only the governing body of the races. They need to set standards that the races have to meet. Until then the riders need to start sending the suggestions and complaints to the promoters of the races. Nothing is going to change if we keep sending emails to NORBA but the promoters continue to host ****ty races and make their money without hearing a thing.

 

[offtheedge]

Jesus! Norba sucks, The UCI could give two flying f!*ks about gravity racing and we are all talking about asking them to move the venue. They don't care. All of the interest and dedication to this sport is right here. Us the riders/racers are the ones who care and thus we should be the ones organizing and deciding where and when our national chamionships should take place. We've been talking about how piss poor Norba is for years now, but we still let them dictate our racing future.
This board alone has plenty of industry types who with the help of all of us could probably organize events. You want to make this sport better, quit supporting organizations that don't care any further than collecting your money. DONT GO!
Instead of bitc#ing about it lets start the proccess of resolving what has become a long standing problem. No more Norba.

(this message was typed pre-coffee)

 

[stiksandstones]

I do not agree without the UCI's 'backing' the race result would not stand on its own. Letters to media in force could create its own validity "Rider and Fans were so fed up they went to billy bobs backyard bonanza to race the outlaw national championship" etc....Yes, far fetched but you must think long term here. Problem is short term thinking has got us to the place we are now.

But more importantly, I think you are eluding to the fact without NORBA points, etc you can not race a world cup? more the reason for letters in mass to UCI stating a ban on NORBA racing, etc...??? there has to be another way to be able to race world cups than having to go through NORBA hoops.

I do not have solid knowledge of UCI/NORBA relationships, rules, (hence the reasoning for my unclear type about world cups, worlds, etc...)but again...must go outside the box and think for the future, not for the season.

 

[offtheedge]

I do not agree without the UCI's 'backing' the race result would not stand on its own. Letters to media in force could create its own validity "Rider and Fans were so fed up they went to billy bobs backyard bonanza to race the outlaw national championship" etc....Yes, far fetched but you must think long term here. Problem is short term thinking has got us to the place we are now.

But more importantly, I think you are eluding to the fact without NORBA points, etc you can not race a world cup? more the reason for letters in mass to UCI stating a ban on NORBA racing, etc...??? there has to be another way to be able to race world cups than having to go through NORBA hoops.

I do not have solid knowledge of UCI/NORBA relationships, rules, (hence the reasoning for my unclear type about world cups, worlds, etc...)but again...must go outside the box and think for the future, not for the season.

exactly. Who cares if they recognize it or not? We need to taske back thias sport and realize that it revoves around us, the racers, the consumers, the supporters...not the "F"ing UCI's recognition.

We only enable them by being afraid to leave their caring embrace.

 

[DHCorky]

We do need to start having other races. I have a race I want to put on but I am working on all the details and then will start looking for a venue to host it. It will be different then the normal DH race so I am trying to get all the logistics together. I simply refuse to host a half assed race. If I wanted a half assed race I would just call NORBA.

Once I get more of the details worked out the ABA was on a list of people to talk to about the race.

 

[W4S]

We only enable them by being afraid to leave their caring embrace.

 

[stiksandstones]

We do need to start having other races. I have a race I want to put on but I am working on all the details and then will start looking for a venue to host it. It will be different then the normal DH race so I am trying to get all the logistics together. I simply refuse to host a half assed race. If I wanted a half assed race I would just call NORBA.

Once I get more of the details worked out the ABA was on a list of people to talk to about the race.

That is good news-I guarantee anyone putting on a race that is not NORBA, Frosty, TBB affiliated (I like a lot of those people, but they have a NORBA cloud over them now ) will have a successful event. Best of luck and keep us posted in the future.

 

[W4S]

Hey, I've got it. We could have the national championships tomorrow in Laguna! We'll call it "The Leaping Lizard Race".

 

[stiksandstones]

Hey, I've got it. We could have the national championships tomorrow in Laguna! We'll call it "The Leaping Lizard Race".

shhhhhh haha

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I just got a call from Justin Rogers, the National Events Director at USA Cycling and here's what he had to say.

The UCI has designated that for a National Championship to be recognized, it must be run by a particular date. I the past, NORBA has largely ignored this rule but they will not get away with it this year. The proper date is July 16th but NORBA received a waiver to run the race on the following weekend (the Mammoth date). When Mammoth fell through, the called every other possible venue but no other venue could take the race on this date. Moving the DH championships to Deer Valley would mean that the UCI would not recognize the US national champion.

Any suggestions? Also, the flaming emails are not really helping - except they may make you feel better.

Umm....DV is the weekend BEFORE the 16th....am I missing something??

 

[Zutroy]

Umm....DV is the weekend BEFORE the 16th....am I missing something??

Not only that, but even if the date was a problem you think they would still be able to get a waiver or something, it's another case of USAC not really caring.

 

[coma13]

I just drafted this letter to ABA and I'll be sending it to the President, Vice President, and National Director as soon as I get the issue date of the Norba article in Decline.

ABA Officials,

My name is Eric Thompson and I have a question for you. Does the American Bicycle Association have room for more than just BMX racing? I ask because the mountain bike community, specifically the disciplines of Downhill, Mountaincross, and Dual Slalom (who I will be referring to as "gravity riders") are in need of an efficient, experienced, and dedicated organizing body.

The ABA has shown, throughout the years, its dedication to the sport and theriders by maintaining a successful series, incorporating outside sponsors, and keeping the sport exciting for the riders. This is precisely the organization and management that the mountain bike c, which is on the threshold of booming, needs.

Currently the only national mountain bike racing series is the NORBA series organized by USA Cycling. Throughout the past years, USA Cycling has displayed a complete lack of concern for the gravity riders and a strict dedication to road and cross country racing. This is evidenced in their recent decision to hold the US National Championship at Infineon Raceway in Sonoma, CA, a venue with 800 feet of vertical drop at best. This decision left the gravity community stunned and caused me to think again about our relationship with USA Cycling. Mountain bike gravity events have much more in common with BMX racing than they do with cross country and road cycling. Sure, the gravity bikes have big wheels and gears, but the similarities end there. The gravity riders' distaste for the current state of the NORBA series was well stated in an article by Decline Magazine in the ?????? Issue.

There are currently tens of thousands of registered mountain bike gravity racers in the USA. The general consensus is a state of frustration with the organizing body of USA Cycling. While they flounder, local series throughout the country such as: Southridge Winter Series (www.southridgeusa.com), the Diablo Domination DH Series (www.diablofreeridepark.com), and many others across the states flourish on a local level.

The interest is there, the riders are there, the money is there, what is lacking is a decisive governing force with an interest in the riders and the sport to promote a successful national series. There are more than ample venues coast to coast, such as: Mt. Baldy, CA (under construction); Mammoth Mountain, CA; Angelfire, NM; Deer Valley, UT; Colorado Springs, CO; Mt. Snow, VT; Mountain Creek, NJ, and a host of other potential venues throughout the Appalachians, Rockies, and other mountain ranges that populate our land mass.

Logistically, running a gravity event is essentially the same as a BMX race, the only difference is the need for a chair lift or effective shuttle system. Downhill courses are already in place at nearly every mountain resort throughout the country and with some experienced assistance, any major resort, with the desire to do so, could host a national caliber event.

I sincerely appreciate the time taken to read and consider this suggestion. If you have any additional questions, or would like the opinion of any mountain bike industry leaders, please let me know and I will do everything in my power to facilitate the connection.

Thanks again,

Eric Thompson
Rogue Mountain Bike Apparel
760-458-4479
www.roguemtb.com​

 

[stephanie]

nice job eric! that issue of decline was some time last fall...sorry i can't be more helpful with the date.

 

[coma13]

nice job eric! that issue of decline was some time last fall...sorry i can't be more helpful with the date.

Thanks! If only I could do chemistry as well as I can write!

 

[ska todd]

Well gentlemen, I just had a really good phone call w/ Justin Rogers from USA Cycling. He doesn't seem like satan's spawn and I think this represented the first time I have had a phone conversation w/ someone at USAC where I actually felt like someone was listening and considering some of what was being said. Justin and Norba know our concerns as downhillers and will be looking into addressing some of the issues w/ the choice of the Infineon venue.

With that said, he is really in a tough situation here between event promoters, venues, and UCI issues. I honestly would not want to be in his shoes today. Will something happen? Who knows but I think that we all have to keep putting pressure on USAC, TBB, and others involved in this decision here to get them behind having a proper DH national championship venue. Keep the pressure on these guys to put on a proper and worthy event.

-ska todd

 

[Transcend]

It honestly doesnt seem like a tough choice. They don't have to plan a new event, just say "ok, now THIS place will be nationals". How complicated can that be?

 

[offtheedge]

Todd, As much as i commend your efforts I think we have to look beyond this race, this season and be pro-active in our own future.

The industry must send a message by not supporting such blatent disregard for gravity sports. The move away from the current governing bodies will be painful, but has to start somewhere, sometime.

 

[SinatorJ]

Here's the fix. The same weekend as Sonoma, there is a little race at Snowmass. The Mtn States Cup Blass the Mass. Why not have this race designated the US NAtional Gravity championships. Quality course, excelent organization the pluses go on and on. Last season, Angel Fire recieved E1 status in order to qualify racers for the World cup. Just think about it

 

[stiksandstones]

Here's the fix. The same weekend as Sonoma, there is a little race at Snowmass. The Mtn States Cup Blass the Mass. Why not have this race designated the US NAtional Gravity championships. Quality course, excelent organization the pluses go on and on. Last season, Angel Fire recieved E1 status in order to qualify racers for the World cup. Just think about it

This sort of thing sounds promising.

 

[ska todd]

It honestly doesnt seem like a tough choice. They don't have to plan a new event, just say "ok, now THIS place will be nationals". How complicated can that be?

From talking to Rogers it unfortunately is complicated; by the UCI, by event promoters, and by venues. Norba doesn't pick the venue themselves directly. They work in conjunction w/ the promoter to do so (in this case TBB ). The UCI says you can host you Nats on this or this weekend and that's it. Venues can't suddenly host an event out of the blue becuase of other events and user groups. Also, the venue has to be of a decent size in order to accomodate all of the participants and host the event simultaneously. Norba is essentially making turd burgers out of turds with all of this. There best choice is to split the DH events from the XC events and host them in different venues on different weekends.

Todd, As much as i commend your efforts I think we have to look beyond this race, this season and be pro-active in our own future.

The industry must send a message by not supporting such blatent disregard for gravity sports. The move away from the current governing bodies will be painful, but has to start somewhere, sometime.

Agree and this is specifically why I have been actively supporting DH racing alternatives to Norba and the NCS series for a few years now. I was the first to be involved w/ the US Open for example. However, I personally think it is impreritive that the US National Championships be a top notch event. I have basically given up on influencing anything on the NCS side because those events don't really matter for anything. But, if there is one race in the US that shouldn't be 1/2 arsed it's this one! It is disrespect to our sport and the riders if it is.

Unfortunately there is not a way in the short term for the US National Champion to be crowned by anyone other than USAC/Norba. The UCI only allows one legit cycling governing body for ALL cycling disciplines per country and this is the one we're stuck with. This is why we actually have to take a stand on this one issue and get a new venue for the DH event and in addition actively work to have an alternative series of events outside the scope of Norba.

-ska todd

 

[offtheedge]

they got a fricken John Denver week for god's sake and a beer sponsor for most events.......i'm moving.

 

[Heath Sherratt]

mtns that could hold the championships

Durango
Keystone
Dear valley
brian head
anglefire(it can hold a world cup, why not a nat championship)
Vail(hm... 2 world cups)
Diablo
Mt. snow
Snowshoe

I know a few of these are already on the circuit, why not hit them 2x? maybe they can have a second nat'l course.

As for ska todd's comment i believe that everyone should follow his lead and let usa cycling/norba know their feelings

It's really hard to believe that not even one of these perfect choices could not work out. I hope there is time to change this. Durango, Vail, Brainheed, Park City, gosh sooo much GREAT terrain and they do this? Odd.

 

[SinatorJ]

Thx Stik, I just got off the phone with Eric Jean, something wicked this way comes...

 

[Secret Squirrel]

From talking to Rogers it unfortunately is complicated; by the UCI, by event promoters, and by venues. Norba doesn't pick the venue themselves directly. They work in conjunction w/ the promoter to do so (in this case TBB ). The UCI says you can host you Nats on this or this weekend and that's it. Venues can't suddenly host an event out of the blue becuase of other events and user groups. Also, the venue has to be of a decent size in order to accomodate all of the participants and host the event simultaneously. Norba is essentially making turd burgers out of turds with all of this. There best choice is to split the DH events from the XC events and host them in different venues on different weekends.



Agree and this is specifically why I have been actively supporting DH racing alternatives to Norba and the NCS series for a few years now. I was the first to be involved w/ the US Open for example. However, I personally think it is impreritive that the US National Championships be a top notch event. I have basically given up on influencing anything on the NCS side because those events don't really matter for anything. But, if there is one race in the US that shouldn't be 1/2 arsed it's this one! It is disrespect to our sport and the riders if it is.

Unfortunately there is not a way in the short term for the US National Champion to be crowned by anyone other than USAC/Norba. The UCI only allows one legit cycling governing body for ALL cycling disciplines per country and this is the one we're stuck with. This is why we actually have to take a stand on this one issue and get a new venue for the DH event and in addition actively work to have an alternative series of events outside the scope of Norba.

-ska todd

*cough* deer valley *cough*....it's the weekend before the deadline...why didn't anyone consider this option??...oh forget it...


Doh dee doh dee doh...I ryde bykeys...duh...warez da mauwntin....

 

[Zutroy]

From talking to Rogers it unfortunately is complicated; by the UCI, by event promoters, and by venues. Norba doesn't pick the venue themselves directly. They work in conjunction w/ the promoter to do so (in this case TBB ). The UCI says you can host you Nats on this or this weekend and that's it. Venues can't suddenly host an event out of the blue becuase of other events and user groups. Also, the venue has to be of a decent size in order to accomodate all of the participants and host the event simultaneously. Norba is essentially making turd burgers out of turds with all of this. There best choice is to split the DH events from the XC events and host them in different venues on different weekends.

Did he say why the sonoma race was the choice verses the PC race, since it's only one wekend difference and it's the same promoter basically?

 

[c2001]

ok, how 'bout blast the mass (or any race) just market itself as the "American National Downhill Championship" - it's not the U.S. National Champ, but it's the American Champ. just like "u.s. open"...it's a name that gets people amped up, nothing more.

if companies want the "american champ" they just send their riders to this race. no one will know the difference between the american champ and the national champ, so everyone wins. who cares about world team selection.

i get $5 per entry fee off the person who uses this idea, by the way.

 

[stephanie]

Thx Stik, I just got off the phone with Eric Jean, something wicked this way comes...

??????????????????????????????????

 

[Zark]

Lets just end the National series, move to regional qualifiers for a championship race (of course at a real venue, Sonoma....sad)

Seems like Cali has been reduced to "quasi-DH" events with the lack of real mountain resorts. Fontana, Firestone, Sonoma, Sea Otter are all "altitude handicapped" Fun races in themselves, but sad in the overall and not deserving a "National" or "Championship" title..

Step it up Mt Baldy! We are hurting for a good venue!!!!!!