[LordOpie]

My wife is very much into healthy food and healthy living. We buy only organic produce and any other organic products where we can. Filtered water, etc.

No harsh chemical cleaners either.

Same with my wife. She used to be a hippy, but realized that money was good too.

We loves the summer farmer's market.

 

[H8R]

H8R, you argued correctly.

Actually...I didn't post it correctly though.



LOL!

I argued that the risks involved w/ vaccines far outweigh the benefits.

WHAT I MEANT:

I argued that the risks involved w/ vaccines are far outweighed by the benefits.

 

[LordOpie]

WHAT I MEANT:

I argued that the risks involved w/ vaccines are far outweighed by the benefits.

we knew what you meant Drummer Smurf... that should be your title.

 

[BMXman]

I argued that the risks involved w/ vaccines are far outweighed by the benefits.

 

[H8R]

Same with my wife. She used to be a hippy, but realized that money was good too.

We loves the summer farmer's market.

We have a hippy-free house hold.

She makes alot of "hippy" choices though. Yoga, health food, natural beauty products, etc.


I think it's her being raised in Santa Cruz mostly.


I'll eat just anything and clean the house with gasoline if you let me.

 

[SPINTECK]

no vaccinations for my kid...never have and probably never will...same for my cats...D

part of the reason your kids never got measel mumps rubella polio and hep b is because the majority of kids your children are exposed to ARE vaccinated.

but you are entitled to your beliefs.

 

[H8R]

we knew what you meant Drummer Smurf... that should be your title.

Avatar change:

ACTIVATE!

 

[BMXman]

part of the reason your kids never got measel mumps rubella polio and hep b is because the majority of kids your children are exposed to ARE vaccinated.

but you are entitled to your beliefs.

wow that's amazing you know what diseases my kid hasn't had you must be psychic...D

 

[BMXman]

Avatar change:

ACTIVATE!

Hey...WTH!!..how did you do that

 

[SPINTECK]

wow that's amazing you know what diseases my kid hasn't had you must be psychic...D

No, I'm an educated and concerned parent. And your cat may be a different story.

 

[SPINTECK]

Vaccines in the news:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/03/07/autism.vaccines.analysis.ap/index.html

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- For those convinced that vaccines can cause autism, the sad case of a Georgia girl, daughter of a doctor and lawyer, seems like clear-cut evidence. The government has agreed to pay the girl's family for injury caused by vaccines.


Hannah Poling's parents, Terry and Jon, allege that vaccines played a role in Hannah's autism.

But it turns out it's not that simple -- and maybe not even a first.

The 9-year-old girl, Hannah Poling, had an underlying condition that may have been worsened, triggering her autism-like symptoms.

Her parents believe it was the five simultaneous vaccines she got as a toddler in one day eight years ago that did it. Government scientists say something like a fever or infection could have set off the problem -- but they didn't rule out the vaccines either.

This week, government officials said they have agreed to pay the Polings from a federal fund that compensates people injured by vaccines. The amount is not yet determined.

While parents and advocates for children with autism say the case is a landmark legal precedent that signals the government is finally conceding potential autism-related risks from childhood vaccines, government officials are saying it's nothing of the kind.

"This does not represent anything other than a very special situation," said Dr. Julie Gerberding, head of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Her comments came after the Polings, from Athens, Georgia, held a news conference Thursday to talk about their daughter, who accompanied them. At the briefing, Hannah seemed socially engaged with her caregiver, but later in an appearance on CNN's "Larry King Live," she was quiet and seemed to be in her own world. Larry King Live goes behind the scenes with the Polings »

As a toddler, they said she was a bright, normal-behaving child until she got five shots when she was about 18 months old. She was a little behind on her vaccinations, so the decision was made to give her five shots.

Almost immediately after, she was screaming, feverish and irritable. Then, her behavior gradually changed so she would stare at fans and lights and run in circles.

"It wasn't like a switch being turned off. It was more like a dimmer switch being turned down," said Hannah's father, Jon, a 37-year-old neurologist. Paging Dr. Gupta blog: Parents still see good in vaccines

It was heartbreaking, said her 47-year-old mother, Terry, who is trained as both a lawyer and a nurse.

"Suddenly my daughter was no longer there," she said.

The family filed a claim with the federal vaccine compensation program in 2002, which the government ultimately decided to concede before any evidentiary hearing.

Don't Miss
Parents share pain of daughter's decline
WebMD: A pediatrician's thoughts on vaccines and autism
I-Report: Are you living with autism? Tell us your story
Autism Speaks: Advocacy, awareness
The case may not be a first, said Gary Golkiewicz, chief special master for the U.S. Court of Federal Claims. He oversees the special "vaccine court" which rules on requests for payments from the vaccine injury fund.

"Years ago, actually, I had a case, before we understood or knew the implications of autism, that the vaccine injured the child's brain caused an encephalopathy," he said. And the symptoms that come with that "fall within the broad rubric of autism."

And there are other somewhat similar cases, Golkiewicz says, that were decided before autism and its symptoms were more clearly defined.

Hannah has a disorder involving her mitochondria, the energy factories of cells. The disorder -- which can be present at birth or acquired later in life -- impairs cells' ability to use nutrients. It often causes problems in brain functioning and can lead to delays in walking and talking. I-Report: Are you living with autism? Tell us your story

The Polings were exploring two theories to explain what happened to Hannah. One is that she was born with the mitochondria disorder and the vaccines caused a stress to her body that worsened the condition. The other is that the vaccine ingredient thimerosal caused the mitochondrial dysfunction, Jon Poling said.

CDC officials decline to talk about the Poling case, but they say it should not be used to draw conclusions about risks for other children.

Scientists believe that in cases in which a mitochondrial disorder causes a child's brain function to deteriorate, the disorder exists and then is worsened by a fever, infection or other stress on the body.

Scientists don't know if a vaccination -- independent of fever or infection -- can cause such a stress, said Dr. Edwin Trevathan, a pediatric neurologist who heads the CDC's birth defects center.

Others echoed his assessment.

Health Library
MayoClinic.com: Autism
"There are no scientific studies documenting that childhood vaccinations cause or worsen mitochondrial diseases, but there is very little scientific research in this area," said Chuck Mohan, executive director the United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation, a Pittsburgh-based group that raises money for research.

Mohan said there are more than 100 types of mitochondrial disease, and genetic tests can find only a couple dozen.

"Most children with autism do not seem to have a mitochondrial problem, so this association ... is probably relatively rare," said Trevathan.

Some research suggests the disorder occurs in one in 4,000 births, but some experts believe the rate is closer to one in 2,000, similar to childhood leukemia. And it is often just as fatal, said Mohan, who lost a daughter to the disease in 1995.


Other federal vaccine advisers seek to portray Hannah Poling as an isolated if not unique case.

She is "not a typical autistic child," said Dr. Paul Offit, chief of infectious diseases at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and a longtime government vaccine adviser. "It's not a precedent-setting case." E-mail to a friend

 

[SkaredShtles]

no vaccinations for my kid...never have and probably never will...same for my cats...D

This is totally irresponsible as a member of a modern society.

 

[H8R]

This is totally irresponsible as a member of a modern society.

Uh...he lives in Canada.

 

[H8R]

BTW -

Much more worrisome to me is toxicity in cheap products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_poisoning

http://www.healthytoys.org/chemicals.cadmium.php

Current Regulations for Children's Products

* There are no restrictions on cadmium in children's products in the US.
* The European Union restricts cadmium in plastics, including PVC, and in electronic products such as toys (European Union 2003).
* Nineteen states limit cadmium in packaging materials, such as shopping bags and product wrappings (TPCH 2007).
* The toy industry has established a voluntary migration standard for the amount of cadmium that can migrate from toys of 75 ppm. It is not enforceable.

No cadmium in toys is acceptable to me.

 

[Changleen]

In NZ we don't start vaccinations until 6 weeks, (I have the leaflet right here funny enough).

6 weeks: Diptheria, Tetanus, acellular pertussis-inactivated polio vacine (WTF??) + Haemophilus influenzae type b, hepatitis b

3 months: Same again (If I am reading this right?)

5 months: Same again less hep b

15 months: Haemophilus influenzae + MMR (This is the one that had the autism scare in Europe, but has basically been shown to be safe now, fully media hyped.)

4 years: Adult type diptheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis-inactivated polio vacine + MMR

11 years: Adult type diptheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis-inactivated polio vacine

Phew!

 

[Changleen]

I had Measles, Mumps, Chicken pox and some cough when I was a kid and I am just fine. However I agree that on the whole it is far better to immunise provided the sh1t is safe. I think that if you look at the numbers of people who are immunised and have zero issues, it is pretty obvious it is safe for 99.9% of people.

Nothing in life is without risk though and we have to accept that.

On balance I think it far more risky to NOT immunise your kid against something like Hep b which is still commonplace than to take the infinitesimal risk your kid may react to the vaccine.

 

[Changleen]

Hmm, Supposedly NZ only gives vaccinations around birth if the kid/family/situation is one of particularly high risk.

 

[DRB]

Hmm, Supposedly NZ only gives vaccinations around birth if the kid/family/situation is one of particularly high risk.

Well with all the sheep shaggin' in NZ seems prudent to get the kids protected early.

 

[LordOpie]

I got negative rep?

Start being a man, my friend. Give your child his/her shot and stop being a wuss!

First, stop stalking me c0ckmunch.

Second, my kid isn't even born yet, so how could I vaccinate? Also, I didn't say I wasn't going to, I said I was in the process of researching the subject. What's wrong with educating myself?

 

[DRB]

Second, my kid isn't even born yet, so how could I vaccinate?

Steady hand long needle

 

[LordOpie]

On balance I think it far more risky to NOT immunise your kid against something like Hep b which is still commonplace than to take the infinitesimal risk your kid may react to the vaccine.

I thought Hep B was primarily spread through shared drug needles and sex?

I think we're going to do all vaccinations, but on a delayed schedule. I'm going to ask our future baby Dr. to come up with a schedule he likes, see what he FedGov recommends and my sister-in-law is a doctor and see what she's doing for her kids... add the math and average it out

 

[3D.]

Hmm, Supposedly NZ only gives vaccinations around birth if the kid/family/situation is one of particularly high risk.

I wonder what NZ’s current statistics are showing, in relation to acquiring such diseases as polio, measles, etc.

I’m 32 and have never had a vaccination shot… me Parents, were firm believers in that our immune systems have evolved and strengthened substantially in the past 100 years or so, and at this point there is a possibility that the abuse of vaccinations (& or anti-biotics) could result in a triggering of related mutated diseases, that could possibly be immune to our immunization practices?

Yea, the 60’s caused a lot of un-n8 type thinking, I know. And yes, to whom it may concern, they were hippies living in the mountains with an out-house, so save the fun poking.:biggrin:

 

[Changleen]

Well with all the sheep shaggin' in NZ seems prudent to get the kids protected early.

Keep up. Sheep are so 1990's. It's all about the Cows now bro.

 

[Toshi]

I wonder what NZ’s current statistics are showing, in relation to acquiring such diseases as polio, measles, etc.

I’m 32 and have never had a vaccination shot… me Parents, were firm believers in that our immune systems have evolved and strengthened substantially in the past 100 years or so, and at this point there is a possibility that the abuse of vaccinations (& or anti-biotics) could result in a triggering of related mutated diseases, that could possibly be immune to our immunization practices?

Yea, the 60’s caused a lot of un-n8 type thinking, I know. And yes, to whom it may concern, they were hippies living in the mountains with an out-house, so save the fun poking.:biggrin:

your parents are irrational.

 

[Changleen]

I thought Hep B was primarily spread through shared drug needles and sex?

True, although I believe it can be spread by transfer of most bodily fluids. I think something like 2% of the western population has it any one time still, but most adults shrug it off.

 

[Changleen]

Ahh, Toshi. Tell us about Hep.

 

[Toshi]

Hep B is spread through blood contact or sex. Not a disease you want in the long term, as it predisposes to cirrhosis and liver cancer. Vaccination for it is prudent. I'm not sure if it's recommended for everyone but it certainly is for health care workers.

 

[BMXman]

This is totally irresponsible as a member of a modern society.

lol..ok...don't believe the hype!...D

 

[SkaredShtles]

lol..ok...don't believe the hype!...D

People who don't vaccinate their children benefit from those people who do.

 

[narlus]

lol..ok...don't believe the hype!...D

if you think vaccines are not a proven agent to prevent disease, you're nutty.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Parents may be jailed over vaccinations
By MARIA CHENG, AP Medical Writer
Wed Mar 12, 9:06 AM ET

As doctors struggle to eradicate polio worldwide, one of their biggest problems is persuading parents to vaccinate their children. In Belgium, authorities are resorting to an extreme measure: prison sentences.

Two sets of parents in Belgium were recently handed five month prison terms for failing to vaccinate their children against polio. Each parent was also fined 4,100 euros ($8,000).

"It's a pretty extraordinary case," said Dr. Ross Upshur, director of the Joint Centre for Bioethics at the University of Toronto.

"The Belgians have a right to take some action against the parents, given the seriousness of polio, but the question is, is a prison sentence disproportionate?"

The parents can still avoid prison — their sentences were delayed to give them a chance to vaccinate their children. But if that deadline also passes without their children receiving the injections, the parents could be put behind bars.

Because of privacy laws, Belgian officials would not talk specifically about the case, such as why the parents refused the vaccine or how much longer they have to vaccinate their children.

The polio vaccine is the only one required by Belgian law. Exceptions are granted only if parents can prove their children might have a bad physical reaction to the vaccine.

"Polio is a very serious disease and has caused great suffering in the past," said Dr. Victor Lusayu, head of Belgium's international vaccine centre. "The discovery of the vaccine has eliminated polio from Europe and it is simply the law in Belgium that you have to be vaccinated. ... At the end of the day, the law must be respected."

Some ethicists back the hardline Belgian stance.

"Nobody has the right to unfettered liberty, and people do not have a right to endanger their kids," said John Harris, a professor of bioethics at the University of Manchester.

"The parents in this case do not have any rights they can appeal to. They have obligations they are not fulfilling."

Aside from Belgium, only France makes polio vaccinations mandatory by law. In the United States, children must be vaccinated against many diseases including polio, but most states allow children to opt out if their parents have religious or "philosophical" objections.

In the U.S. state of Maryland, prosecutors and school officials in one county threatened truancy charges against parents who failed to vaccinate their children. The measure sharply reduced the number of unvaccinated children although nobody has been charged.

The only other case of mandatory polio vaccines is during the Muslim yearly Hajj pilgrimage in Saudi Arabia. Pilgrims from polio-endemic countries — Afghanistan, India, Nigeria and Pakistan — must prove they have been vaccinated. Saudi officials even give them an extra dose upon arrival at the airport.

Since the polio virus can live in the human body for weeks, it jumps borders easily. That makes health officials even in developed countries nervous, since the threat of an outbreak remains as long as the virus is circulating anywhere.

Polio is a highly infectious disease spread through water that mainly strikes children under five. Initial symptoms include fever, headaches, vomiting, stiffness in the neck and fatigue. The polio virus invades the body's nervous system and can lead to irreversible paralysis within hours. In extreme cases, children can die when their breathing muscles are immobilized.

Incidence has dropped by 99 percent since the World Health Organization and partners began their eradication effort in 1988. But the virus is still entrenched in Afghanistan, India, Nigeria and Pakistan, and occasionally pops up elsewhere.

For developed countries, imported polio cases could cause chaos in the health system, warned Dr. Steve Cochi, an immunization expert at the United States' Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

He said that unlike other medical problems, in which rejecting treatment only affects the individual, refusing a vaccine for a transmissible disease like polio puts others at risk as well.

"Most of the time, polio outbreaks do spill into the general population," Cochi said.

Ethicists argue that people who refuse vaccinations are taking advantage of everyone else who has been vaccinated. Once the majority of a population is vaccinated, there are few susceptible people the disease can infect, thus lowering the odds of an outbreak.

People who refuse to be vaccinated are "free riders," Harris said. "They can only afford to refuse the vaccine because they are surrounded by people who have fulfilled their obligations to the community."

Health officials doubt that Belgium's strategy will be useful to countries still battling polio.

"It is up to individual countries to decide their own policies, but we do not feel that imprisonment would help," said Dr. David Heymann, WHO's top polio official.

 

[H8R]

Why is that article spam? Do you have stock in Belgian pharma?

 

[Toshi]

lol..ok...don't believe the hype!...D

People who don't vaccinate their children benefit from those people who do.

if you think vaccines are not a proven agent to prevent disease, you're nutty.

donnie, i think you're really off base with this one. the "hype" you're choosing to disbelieve is many decades of sound medicine and science. basing your decisions on anecdotal evidence is completely irrational, and by not vaccinating yourself and your children you endanger everyone.

 

[Westy]

donnie, i think you're really off base with this one. the "hype" you're choosing to disbelieve is many decades of sound medicine and science. basing your decisions on anecdotal evidence is completely irrational, and by not vaccinating yourself and your children you endanger everyone.

I have some old Army blankets I would like to give him.

 

[BMXman]

donnie, i think you're really off base with this one. the "hype" you're choosing to disbelieve is many decades of sound medicine and science. basing your decisions on anecdotal evidence is completely irrational, and by not vaccinating yourself and your children you endanger everyone.

well you and I just have 2 different belief systems...I don't have a lot of faith in western medicine....As a kid I was never vaccinated because of my moms religion...I followed suit with my son and neither of us have ever come down with anything....D

 

[H8R]

well you and I just have 2 different belief systems...I don't have a lot of faith in western medicine....As a kid I was never vaccinated because of my moms religion...I followed suit with my son and neither of us have ever come down with anything....D

Your sig makes so much sense now...

 

[BMXman]

Your sig makes so much sense now...

rep given!

 

[splat]

One of my Wife's Jobs is Helping an 75 year old woman who had polio when she was 5 , she has been bed ridden ever since. Talk with that Woman for any length of time and you will want that Polio vaccine right then and there.

And one ofthe bigger issues is with most of those disease is since there are vaccines for them that once you get said disease there really is not a lot they can do for you. ( Toshi tell me if I'm wrong with that one )

Heck I even got my daughter the New Controversial One for cervical Cancer.

 

[MMike]

A friend of a friend of my wife just died last week from [whisper]CANCER[/img]. She refused treatment and relied entirely on prayer.

At least it was over quick I guess.......

 

[syadasti]

A friend of a friend of my wife just died last week from [whisper]CANCER[/img]. She refused treatment and relied entirely on prayer.

At least it was over quick I guess.......

Must be related to Steve Jobs - it just works - oh wait, it doesn't - better get surgery

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/02/news/companies/elkind_jobs.fortune/index.htm