Here'sa stupid question. Does a UCI 4X have to be attached to a DH or XC race? Why couldn't they be held entirely on their own? You could have a race at a place like Highland which might well be able to invest in a permanent race 4X track, or alternatively, you could have it in a downtown urban area or even inside an arena or ball stadium.
What's up with 4x getting canned?!?!??!
- Thread starter ZoRo
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they did that this year. there was a 4X event on its own, separate from the normal DH/XC events
Usually due to $. Many of the teams with 4x riders (Yeti for example) also have DH and/or XC riders. Having a completely different series would come close to killing 4x off of it's own accord as teams cannot afford to travel to both. Budgets are getting very tight for teams, the UCI should be doing what it can to help, not make things worse.
Many of the teams with 4x riders (Yeti for example) also have DH and/or XC riders. Having a completely different series would come close to killing 4x off of it's own accord as teams cannot afford to travel to both. QUOTE]
Most of the 4X riders team's only sponsor 4X riders.
Apart from Yeti I cant think of a team that the 4X riders travel with the DH team.
The round where 4X was held seperate from DH was Houffalaize in Belgium. Might have gone off the radar from you guys but was one of the highest attendances this year...not 100% sure but was around the 200 mark.
Also worth a look is the new 4X track out in the Czech Republic...rather rough with some pretty big jumps...
http://video.mpora.com/watch/UzGPrxDpM/hd/
Awesome, found a solution then, let the XC tour have 4X!Many of the teams with 4x riders (Yeti for example) also have DH and/or XC riders. Having a completely different series would come close to killing 4x off of it's own accord as teams cannot afford to travel to both. QUOTE]
Most of the 4X riders team's only sponsor 4X riders.
Apart from Yeti I cant think of a team that the 4X riders travel with the DH team.
The round where 4X was held seperate from DH was Houffalaize in Belgium. Might have gone off the radar from you guys but was one of the highest attendances this year...not 100% sure but was around the 200 mark.
Also worth a look is the new 4X track out in the Czech Republic...rather rough with some pretty big jumps
I watched houffalize on freecaster, looked like there may have been 3000 spectators. Pretty pathetic at an event that had 25,000 XC fans the following day...night racing, beer, music, lights, fanfare and 4X.
4x seems like an incredible waste of resources to me.....but I never raced bmx nor do I want to....I'll watch it here and there, but frankly in its current form it's not overly exciting to watch.....holeshot, win.....
Why not let 4x have 4x? The World Cup is the only major 4x series that I know of that combines 4x in with other disciplines. Permanent stand-alone tracks are the norm in Eastern Europe the UK, OZ and everywhere 4x is actually raced.
I feel like there is way too much of a North American-centric vibe here.
Eastern Europe already has cycleball and artistic cycling, so it's not like there isn't a precedent for obscure UCI-sanctioned events that serve a niche demographic.
Think of it this way- right now 4x is too big for it's britches.
I feel like there is way too much of a North American-centric vibe here.
Eastern Europe already has cycleball and artistic cycling, so it's not like there isn't a precedent for obscure UCI-sanctioned events that serve a niche demographic.
Think of it this way- right now 4x is too big for it's britches.
I've never been to a world cup. How many spectators show up for DH?Awesome, found a solution then, let the XC tour have 4X!
I watched houffalize on freecaster, looked like there may have been 3000 spectators. Pretty pathetic at an event that had 25,000 XC fans the following day...night racing, beer, music, lights, fanfare and 4X.
I heard at Ft William there has been over 20k. Just in the bottom arena area. Is that true? But on Average, how many spectators do you think show up to World cup events just for DH?
Chainreaction, Morewood United team both have a 4x rider if I remember correclty.
Also, that vid really is nice! Thanks for posting it!! The track is some serious buisnessSlavik looks mighty good with the rainbow on!!!
As Suspect said, 4x has an European / OZ vibe more so than here in N.A. Except in Colorado (MSC series), and maybe Fontana during the winter, I can't think of some serious 4x series in the States. Forget about it in Canada, there is only one race per year, and it's the Canadian champs (held in Bromont).
But I'm glad the thread generates opinions and debate and not only plain bashing, hating and "hooray for dual".
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a lot in europe, not so much in windham
USAC counts gated racing seperately from dh. To get the pro upgrade you will need 4x/ds results. My son who's had a pro dh lic for a few years got turned down for his upgrade, Then again he hasn't raced 4x/ds in a few years.
Think of it this way- right now 4x is too big for it's britches. - EXACTLY
Don't want to fuel anyones fire as I don;t mind bit of 4x racing myself, but Sunn/Montgenevre team managed by Stephan Girad have dropped their 4x racer Romain Saladini for 2011. He said in the press release, very bluntly, that the reason for dropping Romain is totally business and that basically the marketing potential of even a winning 4x rider is very very limited.
Strange level of openess for a press release I thought.
http://www.velovert.com/information/3141/teams-2011-du-changement-chez-sunn
Strange level of openess for a press release I thought.
http://www.velovert.com/information/3141/teams-2011-du-changement-chez-sunn
He also said they'd focus more on enduro races like the Megas... seems like there's more marketing potential there for them. it's too bad if you ask me, but I suppose I understand the economic impertative.
Something about a chicken.....a beer and a library......
I'm a dumb american, what the hell does that even say?
I don't know how my name got dragged into this a few pages back but anyway...
Not to derail this thread, but worth mentioning here anyway. Ive mentioned it to the UCI already, but what is staring them in the face is the biggest growing segment in mountain biking. All mountain. Not that i want, or that they (UCI) should get involved in it, but if they looked at the numbers and the direction of the sport they should look to that as a future discipline. Im not advocating it in place of 4X I'm just bringing it up.
As it is I think they may even fear the popularity and media attention and the amount of top UCI pro racer participation in such events, i would almost go so far as to say they chose to slot the Windham World Cup the same weekend as what has traditionally been the Megavalanche on purpose.
Yes there can be a million arguments why a Mega/Maxi like event shouldn't be a UCI discipline but it is way more a true reflection of current mountain biking than 4X. The biggest growth in MTB sales is in this 5"-7" light yet capable all mountain bike. And no the Mega and Maxi events are nothing like "Super D" events of the past in the USA where highposting skinsuit wearing XC bandits shine.
Imagine events where Minnaar can go against Stander or Schurter. or Absalon VS Peaty. Or Weir VS Wildhaber. Basically an event for anyone. Bike technology has reached that point and so has industry sales and focus. Im sure the companies would get behind it even more sponsorship dollar wise if they can promote what they sell like Akula and Slyfink mentioned in the above post. If they want to grow numbers in racing thats where they lie. Anyway i digress, sorry for the derailment.
Not to derail this thread, but worth mentioning here anyway. Ive mentioned it to the UCI already, but what is staring them in the face is the biggest growing segment in mountain biking. All mountain. Not that i want, or that they (UCI) should get involved in it, but if they looked at the numbers and the direction of the sport they should look to that as a future discipline. Im not advocating it in place of 4X I'm just bringing it up.
As it is I think they may even fear the popularity and media attention and the amount of top UCI pro racer participation in such events, i would almost go so far as to say they chose to slot the Windham World Cup the same weekend as what has traditionally been the Megavalanche on purpose.
Yes there can be a million arguments why a Mega/Maxi like event shouldn't be a UCI discipline but it is way more a true reflection of current mountain biking than 4X. The biggest growth in MTB sales is in this 5"-7" light yet capable all mountain bike. And no the Mega and Maxi events are nothing like "Super D" events of the past in the USA where highposting skinsuit wearing XC bandits shine.
Imagine events where Minnaar can go against Stander or Schurter. or Absalon VS Peaty. Or Weir VS Wildhaber. Basically an event for anyone. Bike technology has reached that point and so has industry sales and focus. Im sure the companies would get behind it even more sponsorship dollar wise if they can promote what they sell like Akula and Slyfink mentioned in the above post. If they want to grow numbers in racing thats where they lie. Anyway i digress, sorry for the derailment.
nail, head.....great post sven
The fatal flaw here is that you're assuming the UCI gives f*ck-all about the growth of the sport. I'm not saying you're incorrect (I do agree), only that UCI management are inept.
We're talking about a group with a leader who takes cash payments to cover up positive dope controls.
I think your name got "dragged" here because you said this in another thread:
"i see 4X on schedule. But i wonder if there will actually be 4X. Maybe someone should let the cat out the bag...."
As for the Mega format, I simply love it and if we had some races around here, I would do it for sure. The format looks amazing and fun, but requires some type of alpine or a hill with decent lenght and drop to it.
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Damn, I need to buy some plane tickets. Now.Also worth a look is the new 4X track out in the Czech Republic...rather rough with some pretty big jumps
Can someone tell me exactly what megaavalanche is? The pictures I've seen look like 100 people mass starting at the top of an exposed mountain top. It looks like a race to the bottom that may have some climbing in it as well.
Also, what's the difference between Mega and Maxi avalanche?
That is more money then a 4x cross should ever cost to build, those tracks are not any were as pimp as a local bmx track. the main reason i see for the huge expense is insurance. This is probaly why the cheks. are pulling it off; if libility isn't reconize as applical source of income people don't sue(at least not to the extent thay do in richer countries). If 4x does survive it needs to make the tracks more challenging and ortiented for a full suspension mountain bike, not simply big boys bmx.
If 4x does survive it needs to make the tracks more challenging and ortiented for a full suspension mountain bike, not simply big boys bmx.
It is an enduro race. 33km race, mostly downhill but with some uphill. Best guys do it in 50 mins. There are different groups, every group has something like 200 people. Are has a similar race, les 2 alpes hosts mountain of hell with even less uphills and really crazy downhills althouth it is still rather tech compared to dh tracks.
thanks norbar.
33km, mostly down, some uphill, mass start. Yeah, you'd need a pretty big mountain for that.
For example, if this was to work at Bromont, you would have to send people down the mountain, route them over to one of the smaller peaks, perhaps some climbing back up, then down again and traverse over to the finish. I'm not sure how you would do this without at least 2 pretty significant climbs.
Make me think that the local ski hill as we know them today may not be the best venue for this. That said, Whiteface sounds like it has the elevation and distance.
33km, mostly down, some uphill, mass start. Yeah, you'd need a pretty big mountain for that.
For example, if this was to work at Bromont, you would have to send people down the mountain, route them over to one of the smaller peaks, perhaps some climbing back up, then down again and traverse over to the finish. I'm not sure how you would do this without at least 2 pretty significant climbs.
Make me think that the local ski hill as we know them today may not be the best venue for this. That said, Whiteface sounds like it has the elevation and distance.
Well Mega starts at 3300m, Mountain of Hell at 3200something. Really high mountains, wide also.
Though what amazes me is that the top guys crank almost 40kph avreage speed on a race with an uphill. I rode the mega track and it didnt seem nearly as fast as any dh track unless you were prepared to roll down some very steep slopes on the side of the track.
Also I dont really think you need to make it as long as mega - hell is around 20km if not less, there are smaller events like it also. Im pretty sure there are more than enough resorts in the US that can host something like it.
I think you're getting too hung up on scale....it's the concept of all-mountain rigs you need to focus on......we've had a number of events in the whistler valley that aren't necessarily mega style, but focus more on the all-mountain side, blurring the lines between xc/dh, that's the important part.
It's kind of funny.......I see that as a return to 'real' mountain biking more than anything. All mountain isn't new, it's just a new label for describing what most people do when they 'go for a mountain bike ride™' Years of lame xc tracks where a road bike with flat bars and knobby tires actually created it's own sport and turned the xc moniker into something that involved way more fitness than skill to do well in. The mass start mega style races are sick because you return to a format where skill and planning are just as important, if not moreso than your VO2 max that week.
Sucks that it would pull money away from 4x because on some of the better tracks that have been getting built, there's actually been some really good racing over the last two years or so. The wholeshot and done days really did seem to be dying. I wish it were the xc category that was getting more scrutiny but c'est la vie. Sounds like we get at least another year out of 4x though. I know I'm in the minority but I went out of my way much more to watch the 4x racing than DH since freecaster came around. Every race is different, you know exactly where each rider stands, and the rider interaction with passes, mistakes, and strategy just isn't something you get watching 50 guys on the same section of track over and over again like in dh. I like watching both but I'm one of the people that the spectator aspect of 4x really worked for.
Dude, you still are in Whistler!! I know the place pretty good having lived there for 3 years and the sheer amount of terrain available for that type of racing, even if it's not held directly in the bike park, is pretty intense.
Dump is talking East Coast! Not a lot of mountains could do that type of race here unless it's down down down up up up up up up up up the mountain again and down again. Whiteface is a good option.
Colorado has super d's and a super d series, but it's more of a XC downhill race than reverse, which would be like the Mega Avalanche or the likes.
I wouldn't put Mark Weir in the "skinsuit wearing XC bandits" category although he wears a skinsuit when he races. But his technical skills far exceed the average XC rider (and yes, I have seen him live while racing in Ashland). Cool guy on top of that!
That was not a reference directed towards Weir. It was to illustrate lame pedal heavy low tech tracks in some past "Super D events" For this all mountain or should i say "all marketing" event it need not be 50 min long nor mass start. But it should level the playing fields. A few years ago the mega Blenki pedaled a (then heavy) Yeti DH rig with flats to a top five when the winner was on a 5" light bike. Thats the kind of track you would be after....I wouldn't put Mark Weir in the "skinsuit wearing XC bandits" category although he wears a skinsuit when he races. But his technical skills far exceed the average XC rider (and yes, I have seen him live while racing in Ashland). Cool guy on top of that!
But if you think there are complaints now on 4X and DH tracks at world cups i could just imagine the complaints that would pop up in this. There are only a few top notch venues around the world for the ideal route however a few WC venues could work, I may test it out the concept at some venues next year with a few friends who are up for it the Monday after WC, freelap poles or gentleman's timing ....but for now its just a pipe dream...But if the free riders can organize themselves to enough to pull off a successful inaugural FMB tour i dont see why this could not happen at some point.
But i wont post here anymore on this as it is detracting from the 4X topic... I am stoked however that a positive decision has been made to move forward. If anything, this "close call" in cutting the 4X should make everyone step up the game in all aspects and im sure we will see a better season that ever.
I'm in the same boat for sure. I watched every 4x event this year with great pleasure. I also love watching DH, but usually wait for the complete replay and skip the whole field until the top 10 or 5.
Holeshotting is still a big part of the race, but the new track designs are granting more and more options to make clean passes down the track (MSA's track is a good example of that imo). But, still, if you look at Graves, he simply is the best holeshotter and, consequently, wins most of the races (+ he has the rest of the skills to back it up). Guys are still able, albeit not that often, to pull a nice pass or timely move on him. This year's Worlds served as a good example with Slavik making the most out of the exterior line.
You took the words right out of my mouth. All mountain just sounds like what we used to call XC. After some some years of dh, dirt and street, I got back into what I used to do in the old days - ride my bike in the woods, up and down... and if it was fast and technically challenging, all the better. So I went out to buy some XC tires, and all that was for sale were micro knobbies and semi-slicks better suited to a gravel path. I scratched my head and though, is there some magic in the rubber that gives these traction, because for the trails I know, these are definitely not going to work. Then I heard about what XC races had devolved into and it started to make sense. I think you put it well by saying, all mountain is just getting back to what mountain biking used to be: you ride up, ride down, fast, slow, tech, flowy, hop the log, over the drop and hit the little jump or two.
I hope it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings if I call it cross country because, well... that's what it is.