[jonKranked]

Wurd. A lot of people (here in the states) don't seem to get that. WC tracks are completely different than anything else.

And after seeing the course Windham ran for this past summer's GES race (the one that they claimed was going to make up a significant portion of the WC track), I definitely did not think it was a WC caliber.




*This isn't meant to be a dig at Windham. It was a good track, just not WC caliber IMHO.

 

[bfrich]

not at all the case...

there are a few people on here (myself included) that are well informed with what it takes to host a WC, what the UCI wants, what the teams want, etc... it is a HUGE undertaking and not as simple as just saying this venue will do.

it is pretty obvious from reading this thread that almost no one really "gets it"... that isn't directed at you Rich.

An awesome WC will happen in the US in the near future and will be worth the wait... we just are not ready for it yet.

No offense taken, I really am a noob.

I hope we get that Awesome WC in 2012.

 

[davetrump]

No offense taken, I really am a noob.

I hope we get that Awesome WC in 2012.

will Richie be old enough by then ?

 

[gemini2k]

Mammoth! Mammoth! Mammoth!

Edit:
Just make a whole new course from the top of the mountain down. It'll be steep and fast enough to be within their time constraints, but have tons of flexibility with the huge amounts of vert.

 

[Supa8]

And after seeing the course Windham ran for this past summer's GES race (the one that they claimed was going to make up a significant portion of the WC track), I definitely did not think it was a WC caliber.




*This isn't meant to be a dig at Windham. It was a good track, just not WC caliber IMHO.

Yankee Clipper course was more in line with what the WC course would be and was quite different than the GES course. Way fun and used the steep sections on the other side of the lift not that Bear Crotch section or whatever it was called from the GES race.

 

[IH8Rice]

And after seeing the course Windham ran for this past summer's GES race (the one that they claimed was going to make up a significant portion of the WC track), I definitely did not think it was a WC caliber.




*This isn't meant to be a dig at Windham. It was a good track, just not WC caliber IMHO.

is this the race you left after 2 runs b/c of a drizzle?

 

[wiscodh]

is this the race you left after 2 runs b/c of a drizzle?

the GES course was terrible. It was no where near a WC level course. Haven't we been over this in a thread back in july?

Go ride the bromont course, then go ride windham, you wont need to argue on the internet after that. The results will speak loud and clear at that point.

 

[IH8Rice]

the GES course was terrible. It was no where near a WC level course. Haven't we been over this in a thread back in july?

Go ride the bromont course, then go ride windham, you wont need to argue on the internet after that. The results will speak loud and clear at that point.

you have absolutely have no clue on wtf i am talking about.
no where in my statement did i bring up any of what you just fvking said.
my comment was directed towards Jon b/c i know him.

 

[davetrump]

you have absolutely have no clue on wtf i am talking about.
no where in my statement did i bring up any of what you just fvking said.
my comment was directed towards Jon b/c i know him.

Wow... someone needs to take a deep breath.

 

[IH8Rice]

Wow... someone needs to take a deep breath.

bad day and im sick of people getting their panties in a bunch about something they know nothing about

 

[John Jameson]

I wish the Cookie Monster would have told Bert to shut the **** up. Hated that annoying little bastard.


With Windaham's proximity to Eastern Canada, Bromont is really the only viable option to move it at this point. It has the proven capacity to successfully hold such an event. As much as I or anyone else would love to have a WC at our home mountain, what other place on that part of the continent could rank above Bromont? Especially since the race is happening in 10 months.

 

[BUNKERCHUNKS]

A lot of talk from people that seem to be "in the know" but really not. I'm just more worried about the course builders that have to pony up at the last minute if it gets changed, the real unsung heros

 

[RUFUS]

A lot of talk from people that seem to be "in the know" but really not. I'm just more worried about the course builders that have to pony up at the last minute if it gets changed, the real unsung heros

There is no course building at Bromont. They put tape on the trail and send down the riders.*


*Obviously a bit of a joke but there isn't a ton of work that goes on at that trail as there really doesn't need to be. After 2008,2009 WC's in the mud and the Canada Cups, the course could def. use some love though.

Bromont is my pick yet again, just hoping that media gets better food and a better media tent

 

[4130biker]

Can anyone explain what is so much better about euro tracks? I'm curious, and would love to see/ ride one someday. Any trails in pnw that compare to wc caliber tracks? My best guess would be snoqualmie.. Why couldn't they bring a wc back to snoqualmie?

 

[Pip3r]

This is a huge bummer for sure but as mentioned, probably is in the best interest of everyone.

Windham had a lot of passion and motivation but little to deliver. The town is tiny and the mountain is pretty flat for the lower 50%. The track would need a TON of work to get the flow running fast enough and it would probably involve a lot of man made stuff.

Although I doubt it would happen (and I hate to say it), I think Mt Snow would be the best bet for a WC around here just because the top pros seem to love that crazy ass track and they have held big events (a WC in the past right?).

Killington would also be rad as balls but they are pretty far removed from the actual racing scene. Killer mountain and facilities though.

 

[jnooth]

This is a huge bummer for sure but as mentioned, probably is in the best interest of everyone.

Windham had a lot of passion and motivation but little to deliver. The town is tiny and the mountain is pretty flat for the lower 50%. The track would need a TON of work to get the flow running fast enough and it would probably involve a lot of man made stuff.

Although I doubt it would happen (and I hate to say it), I think Mt Snow would be the best bet for a WC around here just because the top pros seem to love that crazy ass track and they have held big events (a WC in the past right?).

Killington would also be rad as balls but they are pretty far removed from the actual racing scene. Killer mountain and facilities though.

In my Opinion Killington could host an awesome world cup. they have plenty of good terrain to build a great track. it could be steep fast and technical, but i think just to get racing back there would be a step in the right direction

 

[stiksandstones]

This is a huge bummer for sure but as mentioned, probably is in the best interest of everyone.

Windham had a lot of passion and motivation but little to deliver. The town is tiny and the mountain is pretty flat for the lower 50%. The track would need a TON of work to get the flow running fast enough and it would probably involve a lot of man made stuff.

Although I doubt it would happen (and I hate to say it), I think Mt Snow would be the best bet for a WC around here just because the top pros seem to love that crazy ass track and they have held big events (a WC in the past right?).

Killington would also be rad as balls but they are pretty far removed from the actual racing scene. Killer mountain and facilities though.

I know 1995 mt. snow had a world cup. I think one other year as well. That mountain has had some really good tracks, other times some super lame tracks. Location is mint, lodging, food, can get crowds, bla bla bla....but last I heard mt snow doesn't want any part of big racing anymore.

 

[RUFUS]

I know 1995 mt. snow had a world cup. I think one other year as well. That mountain has had some really good tracks, other times some super lame tracks. Location is mint, lodging, food, can get crowds, bla bla bla....but last I heard mt snow doesn't want any part of big racing anymore.

Yeah, and you can tell that they want no part in small racing anymore either. Just pay the huge fees and shut your mouth.

 

[buckoW]

Can anyone explain what is so much better about euro tracks? I'm curious, and would love to see/ ride one someday. Any trails in pnw that compare to wc caliber tracks? My best guess would be snoqualmie.. Why couldn't they bring a wc back to snoqualmie?

No IMBA or crazy lawsuits in Europe so the trails are much more ride at your own risk. I couldn't imagine the Champery (open for the public) track lasting very long in the US for those two reasons.

Also, the Alps are much younger than the Rockies so the mountains are steeper and rougher. I lived in Durango for years and I had no idea Europe was so sick for riding until I moved here.

 

[Pslide]

What, now IMBA's to blame too? Please 'splain yoself!

I know they have some ghey limits on gradient, etc. But nobody's saying you have to build by their standard for DH race tracks, right? Certainly very few are...

 

[buckoW]

Maybe that was a bit harsh. I take it back. It just seems like more difficult trails are permitted over here for a bunch of reasons.

 

[Santa Maria]

Can anyone explain what is so much better about euro tracks? I'm curious, and would love to see/ ride one someday. Any trails in pnw that compare to wc caliber tracks? My best guess would be snoqualmie.. Why couldn't they bring a wc back to snoqualmie?

Have you ever seen some video footage of Schladming or Maribor? These are two classic euorstyle tracks and there are a lot more of them in the Alps...

 

[Pslide]

No worries Buckow. Your point about the legal liability problem is an issue.

Also, remember that the states has a trail building culture more influenced by freeride than WC downhill. They have been a bit detached from the WC racing scene, thus the reply above - no idea what a WC track is like! (No offense to 4130biker!)

I reckon the states will get there eventually.

 

[jonKranked]

is this the race you left after 2 runs b/c of a drizzle?

drizzle, torrential downpour, same thing right?


Also, I don't seem to recall you even showing up in the first place.

 

[SylentK]

(Getting off topic)....At least out here, the major resorts LEASE the mountain/land from the gov't. That is why they have to close in April no matter how much snow they have (in other words they have to open/close in accordance to their agreement). Also why it takes forever to get a trail built...cuz the gov't has to approve it first. Sol Vista and Angel Fire are exceptions as they own their own land. This is what I understand, anyway.

Buckow, you're pretty accurate in your description. Although I"d replace IMBA with BLM/USFS. Spot on with the "age" of our mtns. Kinda interesting, eh?

 

[Sandwich]

Killington would be a cool spot with a lot of potential, but I don't feel like they have a huge commitment to riding that some other spots do. Their mountain has a ton of potential, however, with some super steeps and very WFO high speed sections.

 

[IH8Rice]

drizzle, torrential downpour, same thing right?


Also, I don't seem to recall you even showing up in the first place.

i think i was in the Alps at the time. sorry

 

[jonKranked]

i think i was in the Alps at the time. sorry

Wearing matching man-kinis with Ronnie from what I've heard

 

[Ithnu]

Is being steep compared to the Alps really that much of an issue for mountain bikes? I have never been to Europe so fill me in. Its not like you're going to build a DH track down a 45 degree pitch double black that you ride in the winter. What I mean is some sections may be that steep, but do you really need 2000' vertical of constant 45 degrees to be a European track?

The real issue seems to be that if it isn't football, basketball or baseball no one in the US cares.

 

[Runner]

Killington would be a cool spot with a lot of potential, but I don't feel like they have a huge commitment to riding that some other spots do. Their mountain has a ton of potential, however, with some super steeps and very WFO high speed sections.

Killington WC
The problem is that unless they hire some new builders, the course won't be WC style at all. The trails there often feel like XC that just happens to go from the top back down to the lodge. There's no doubt an amazing course could be built on that mountain, but I doubt the new management would invest a penny...

 

[gemini2k]

Its not like you're going to build a DH track down a 45 degree pitch double black that you ride in the winter.

Actually yes, yes you are. We've got a few trails around here that are exactly that, although only for about 1300' of vert maybe. Take a look at the Champery footage, notice how quickly you go from seeing the riders at eye level, to looking straight down on top of their heads. It's hard to find that kind of terrain in the U.S., especially the east.

The trails are built much better in Europe too. Go to youtube and watch some videos of their race trails. Look how much faster the trails are, and it's not cause they're "fast and wide open". It's because they are built better. Weaving inbetween trees at 5-10mph on single track that's barely wide enough for you bars is NOT a good track.

 

[gemini2k]

(Getting off topic)....At least out here, the major resorts LEASE the mountain/land from the gov't. That is why they have to close in April no matter how much snow they have (in other words they have to open/close in accordance to their agreement). Also why it takes forever to get a trail built...cuz the gov't has to approve it first. Sol Vista and Angel Fire are exceptions as they own their own land. This is what I understand, anyway.

Buckow, you're pretty accurate in your description. Although I"d replace IMBA with BLM/USFS. Spot on with the "age" of our mtns. Kinda interesting, eh?

Another reason why our gov't and the damn hippies suck. Hacktastic said it best "I never thought so many people would care about me riding my bike out in the middle of nowhere in the forest until I moved to Socal"

 

[Ithnu]

Go to youtube and watch some videos of their race trails. Look how much faster the trails are, and it's not cause they're "fast and wide open". It's because they are built better. Weaving inbetween trees at 5-10mph on single track that's barely wide enough for you bars is NOT a good track.

I agree with you on the weaving between tight trees at 5 mph is not a good track.

I find most videos never do justice and most people don't estimate slope grade right. I'm not saying you're wrong, you could be right for all I know. I'm just getting at the point that I think lots of you guys who've been to Europe are making, it has to be seen in person. Don't worry, I plan to.

Some of these tracks have been around for years in Europe. Wouldn't the Angel Fire DH track from 2005 overlap some of these? How's that compare?

 

[Sandwich]

Killington WC
The problem is that unless they hire some new builders, the course won't be WC style at all. The trails there often feel like XC that just happens to go from the top back down to the lodge. There's no doubt an amazing course could be built on that mountain, but I doubt the new management would invest a penny...

true...I was wildly disappointed when I rode there...but there are sections of greatness. I don't love the fireroad bombing top to bottom, but there are few sections that are just sickly steep...I think it's 31 or something like that, but it goes right down the face. There's a section at the bottom that makes me feel like a kid again, it weaves through the woods and utilizes a lot of natural berms...but it lasts 10 seconds at most. The outfit and amenities there put just about everywhere else (Pkill, Diablo, Highland, Jiminy, even whiteface to a degree) to shame.

 

[SylentK]

Angel Fire probably isn't a good example, but it was a WC course. But AF is NOT steep. Rough and hard, yes. But not steep.

The 94 Worlds course at Vail is not steep either.

Old 9 would an example of a good section of a WC course, IMO. Or those "other" trails there? Jeebus I love vail.

 

[Ithnu]

Angel Fire probably isn't a good example, but it was a WC course. But AF is NOT steep. Rough and hard, yes. But not steep.

The 94 Worlds course at Vail is not steep either.

Old 9 would an example of a good section of a WC course, IMO. Or those "other" trails there? Jeebus I love vail.

Nothing to see at Vail, move along.

 

[jnooth]

true...I was wildly disappointed when I rode there...but there are sections of greatness. I don't love the fireroad bombing top to bottom, but there are few sections that are just sickly steep...I think it's 31 or something like that, but it goes right down the face. There's a section at the bottom that makes me feel like a kid again, it weaves through the woods and utilizes a lot of natural berms...but it lasts 10 seconds at most. The outfit and amenities there put just about everywhere else (Pkill, Diablo, Highland, Jiminy, even whiteface to a degree) to shame.

I ride Killington a fair amount and there are sections that if you know how to get there are awesome (trails 30,31,21,23) and riding there without people who know the mountain can be frustrating... i would say 90% of the mountain is lame as you said. if they had the motivation there are a few places in particular that would make for a good course.

I would be willing to build one myself if they were to allow that

 

[davetrump]

all this talk about course building... as if that is all it takes to pull off a world cup. A good course is icing on the cake.

don't forget the xc track.... and 4x (i hear those are a real cheap investment)

 

[jnooth]

4X course=$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Banshee Rider]

So its the end of the week... Where's the news the 'insiders' said would be announced?