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G-BOXX Planetary, first pics

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
How do you think is it supposed to work with a Horstlink and without a chain tensioner?
I don't, there could be anything I can't see on the non drive side shot we have. Little spring roller near the back. I hadn't looked real hard, I just got up, and was more focussed on trying to see the bolts at the back, I shoulda just turned up my screens brightness(on low for frail morning eyes), easier just to look dumb and ask.
 

bikemonkey

Chimp
Feb 1, 2008
68
0
Santiago, Chile
Yawn.
A twister is more benneficial for a gearbox. It's easier and faster to do multiple shifts. The shifter on that bike looks like an after thought, slippery and bodgie. Don't knock it until you've tried it on a gearboxed bike and given yourself time to adapt, it is only the shifter.
you might be able to run through a number of gears with the grip shift, but you can't shift and brake at the same time. I'd only realized how good of an advantage this is when I started using my alfine hub with a trigger shifter.
 

Wilhelm

Monkey
Aug 10, 2003
444
19
I don't, there could be anything I can't see on the non drive side shot we have. Little spring roller near the back. I hadn't looked real hard, I just got up, and was more focussed on trying to see the bolts at the back, I shoulda just turned up my screens brightness(on low for frail morning eyes), easier just to look dumb and ask.
There is no Horst (LEITNER) link in the rear suspension of the "NICOLAI Ion G-Boxx2", in contrast to the conventional "NICOLAI Ion ST". You´ll see this detail better in the previous posted pics: http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2949826&postcount=211. The rear linkage (red anodized) is localized between the dropout and the seat stay (resp. push rod). The three shiny silver looking bolts near the rear dropout act as fixing bolts for the length adjustable dropout only.

 

Wilhelm

Monkey
Aug 10, 2003
444
19

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
now that's unexpected. beating sram to the punch. nice work - though conceptually i have an issue with the proprietary crank & chainring, and think bikes should have just one full range transmission if you're going to build something internal. it does make sense from a retro-fittable, mass market applicability perspective though.
 
Apr 16, 2006
392
0
Golden, CO
Alright, I've been trying to figure out what all the fuss is behind this "new" fandangled 2 speed front chainring technology is about, and for the life of me, I couldn't. So instead of being an a$$hole I researched and figured it out...


ITS THE 100 YEAR ANNIVERSERY!!! SRAM's HammerSh!t, and BonerUnicorns B-Box are like the Diamond Jubilee of celebration! So cool!




Sorry about the pic size. To those who are visually dependent, and can't see in the tiny pic, the front chainring features the planetary transmission (it accomplishs the same thing in the end) as is being developed by sram and bionicon. This technology was actually pioneered in CYCLING almost a decade before 1908. This is just a graphical representation of how companys are just recylcing old technology and remarketing it :rolleyes: it'd be cool if they came up with something new like at least the g-boxx 2 is trying to do :lighten:
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
europeans tend to delineate thousands, millions, etc. with the period, and use the comma as the decimal point. strange but true. :D
<RANT>
Actually, it was the UK who turned points into commas, back in 1800's. Most of the world uses the decimal system, and when it comes to measuring, the only countries remaining at Victorian times are UK, USA and such...
See, the metrical system has a simple advantage over the English system: it introduces only one arbitrary unit on each measuring scale (weight, lenght, volume, etc.). Then, it divides or multiplies it by ten every time (in mathematical terms, it rises or diminishes it one order of magnitude) to obtain a number which is addecuate to measure the desired quantity, and avoid unnecessary zeros before or after the significative figures. OTOH, the UK measuring system has a great number of units to measure the same type of quantity (feet, inches, yards, miles for example, and that's ONLY for lenght!!!).
Sociologically speaking, some people say the English measuring sysyem has one subtle aim, which is diffcult the calculations for those less educated. That gave the UK the advantage back in the old days, when making bussiness with their colonizated territories. Now the UK (and USA as their major partner) keep it for pride mostly, and to hold some sense of national consciousness.
</RANT>

I made an essay as Physics student, in collaboration with a friend of mine who is a Sociologyst some time ago, justifying the reasons UK exhibited when they denied the plea of the EU to adopt the Metrical system.

I know I got off-topic (and I've got nothing against USA or UK people, please don't take this post that way!!!!), but this seamed like the right place to bring some light over the measuring question.

Luis
 

rbx

Monkey
These gearboxes are hell for suspension design, you cant get high anti-squat percentages because you have to have zero chain growth.
The designer is forced to use cocentric pivots, the B-BOXX and sram variations are even worse for that purpose!
 

bikemonkey

Chimp
Feb 1, 2008
68
0
Santiago, Chile
could SCHLUMPF add more gears to its unicycle geared hub and use it as a geared bottom bracket? that would make the ideal gearbox, with the center of gravity as low as it can be.
 
Apr 16, 2006
392
0
Golden, CO
Bikemonkey - They are actually quite different. You see, first of all they dont even have the same name! There not made by SRAM, so when you strip out a crank (which for SRAM, is inevitable that you will go through a set a year of stipped cranks) you can't just get a free replacement. Umm, it doesnt have a cool name? and oh yea, they don't have nearly as big of a marketing campain going, or one at all for that matter, so that means there not as good. :plthumbsdown: Oh yea, and there not claiming its new or will revolutionize biking, so its not I guess

Oh on another note - Schlumpf could add more gears bikemonkey, in fact a regular internally geared hub could even be used there with some ingenuity (easiest way would be changing the spindle from a solid member to a gear diven member split up on either side of the hub...). Schlumph prolly just took an internally geared hub, changed the internal ratios, so that they could use the sun gear as the driven unit instead of the planetary gears, but still keeping the ring gear as the output. If you get whats going on there, you'll see how a regular hub could be used.
 
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bikemonkey

Chimp
Feb 1, 2008
68
0
Santiago, Chile
Bikemonkey - They are actually quite different. You see, first of all they dont even have the same name! There not made by SRAM, so when you strip out a crank (which for SRAM, is inevitable that you will go through a set a year of stipped cranks) you can't just get a free replacement. Umm, it doesnt have a cool name? and oh yea, they don't have nearly as big of a marketing campain going, or one at all for that matter, so that means there not as good. :plthumbsdown: Oh yea, and there not claiming its new or will revolutionize biking, so its not I guess

Oh on another note - Schlumpf could add more gears bikemonkey, in fact a regular internally geared hub could even be used there with some ingenuity (easiest way would be changing the spindle from a solid member to a gear diven member split up on either side of the hub...). Schlumph prolly just took an internally geared hub, changed the internal ratios, so that they could use the sun gear as the driven unit instead of the planetary gears, but still keeping the ring gear as the output. If you get whats going on there, you'll see how a regular hub could be used.
when did I say that schlumpf was made by sram?
and I do get the geared hub ways. I think that the better way of turning a standard hub into a geared bottom bracket would be to design the entire thing again, around a stronger axle that con cope with the crank, and used the hub as "inspiration".
your idea sound interesting, has it been done? you would need quite a robust construction around the hub.
I would really like my cranks being attached to the same solid member and reroute the chain with a jakcshaft (like I have already done before).
 
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Apr 16, 2006
392
0
Golden, CO
haha sorry man, the whole first paragraph of that responce was me being overly sarcastic - basically "if it ain't SRAM, it aint right" lol

Someone has done an internally geared Bottom bracket, not sure how many gears, or if it even uses the suggestion I had. Obtaining the right gear ratio in that configuration would require a total remake prolly tho, for spacing reasons. I think the geared bottem bracket is on that dude patenteno or whatevers website (hes got an extensive collection of most of the gearbox bikes to date)
 

LMC

Monkey
Dec 10, 2006
683
1
the rohloff looks like some sort of hybrid, im pretty sure the disc brake version only comes with the external shift box,

he has the internal shift box and the rotor mounts.

Nicely done, its begging for an onboard rotor
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,088
6,024
borcester rhymes
neat idea....but what the hell is the point? you aren't changing any unsprung mass, in fact, you're adding quite a bit of weight by essentially running two hubs.

Very cleanly executed, but unless you're running rear suspension, you may as well run the hub as a hub.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
24
SF, CA
neat idea....but what the hell is the point? you aren't changing any unsprung mass, in fact, you're adding quite a bit of weight by essentially running two hubs.

Very cleanly executed, but unless you're running rear suspension, you may as well run the hub as a hub.
Mass centralization still makes a big difference. Considering your legs the shock absorber in the equation, it's quicker and less effort to be abe to pivot the rear around a centralized mass than lift the rear vertically with all the weight back there.

But it DOES count more on a fully.
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
more than anything, this is a good proof of concept for a frame mount gearhub standard. i believe this type of system (also similarly used by gt & lahar) is superior to the gboxx platforms, in that you don't require proprietary crank / bb's, use gearhubs that are proven & readily available, and have much more freedom for a variety of suspension designs / pivot locations. in rigidly limiting suspension configurations, the gboxx platform alienates a great number of manufacturers whose identities are built on specific designs; ie - i don't see any of the big companies adopting the vboxx/gboxx any time soon.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
+1 What he said^.
Broad gear range with one shifter.
Consistent gear differences between gears.
Shift any time.
Shift many gears at once.
Centralised mass, great for jumping and rear wheel steering.
No fragile derailer to rip off.
Very low maintanence.
Very reliable.
Very clean.
Cheap in the long run.
I'd rock it for sure.
 

Wilhelm

Monkey
Aug 10, 2003
444
19
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Wilhelm

Monkey
Aug 10, 2003
444
19
Not even one? Come on guys. This is pathetic. I kept thinking it would be just around the corner, but more and more companies are dropping out. GT, Honda, BeOne, BCD, Orange, NOX, Racebike, Ellsworth, have all shown gearbox bikes in the past but have dropped the ball.

Hayes bought the right to the "petespeed" system, but claim there is no interest from frame builders, so they shelved it.

Eurobike had tonnes.
Nicolai rules with the upcoming g-boxx ION.
Bergamont, Diamondback, Vario, plus many more.

What's wrong with north american builders?

Someone prove me wrong with a picture of ANY gearbox bike from Interbike.

Please.

The only gearbox bike at Interbike 2008 I could find was this one by John SULLIVAN, ROTEC with the SR SUNTOUR V-Boxx (http://www.mbaction.com/Media/News/DSCN1981.JPG):




BTW, much more gearbox bike projects were to be seen at Eurobike 2008 (http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showpost.php?p=5100734&postcount=473):

"Pudel DH G-Boxx 2" by ALUTECH (D)


"Sabbath" by DIAMONDBACK (GB)


"Pentagon" by HEAD-Bikes (D)


"MSC X Evo III" by MSC-Bikes (ES, see also: http://www.mscbikes.com/images/bicis2008/Downhill/reporevoiii2008.pdf)


"Ion GB2" by NICOLAI (D)


"Big Air G9" by BERGAMONT* (D)


"Slog DH" by SLOG DESIGN (D)


"Techno" by VARIO Bikes (F)



Not at Eurobike 2008 but interesting, too:
"Boxxster" by Michael ZELLER, WITCHBROOM Bikes (CH): http://www.witchbroom.ch



"Boxxhorn G7" by Frank REUBER, REUBER Bike (D), welded by NICOLAI (http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showpos...1&postcount=12): http://www.fingercolt.de, http://www.reuber-die-marke.de/boxxhorn.html



The most comprehensive collections of Eurobike 2008 pictures I could find were these two: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tfj77/sets/, http://www.mtb-news.de/eurobike-2008/ resp. http://fotos.mtb-news.de/tags/view/eurobike2008.


*) BERGAMONT has shown two very interesting FR resp. DH machines at the Willingen Bike Festival 2008 (D) for their 2009 product portfolio, both with DW´s "Split Pivot" (http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=341608, http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2965936&postcount=215, http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182353&highlight=split+pivot&page=15, http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2968366&postcount=238):

Today the German Hamburg based BERGAMONT bike company unveilled two of their all-new for 2009 models ("Straitline 7.9" for DH use, "BigAir 9.9" for FR use) at the bike festival in Willingen (Germany): http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=341608.

If you look carefully at the rear suspension you can find Dave´s "Split-Pivot" design in combination with a "Maxle" rear axle as well as a rear postmount. So far as I can see are these two rigs the first series bikes (besides the TREK "ABP" stuff http://thisjustin.bicycling.com/2007/06/08_trek_fuel_ex.html) with this licensed-by-Dave design. Considering the 2007 BERGAMONT "BigAir G9" G-CON gearbox bike project (http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=285006&highlight=BigAir, http://bergamont.de/cms/de/02__bikes/freeride_dirt_street_mtb/detail/big-air-g9) i am very hopeful to see the first "Split-Pivot" gearbox bike soon, too.
Split Pivot and Bergamont have been involved in discussions about implementing a Split Pivot design on their upcoming models. The prototypes shown at the Willingen show will be used for evaluating some of the mechanical aspects of the Split Pivot concentric dropout design, this bike uses a thru axle. I didn't personally develop the kinematics for this frame but any production bike would use kinematics that I would develop specifically for Bergamont. Its a work in progress.
Dave
"Straitline"



"BigAir"



Intriguing: The production version of the "BigAir" shown at Eurobike 2008, has NO "Split Pivot"!

 
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CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,881
4,226
Copenhagen, Denmark
A Diamondback USA rep was at Diablo this weekend on their bike. He said he had gotten it from their UK office and that there were no plans at the moment to sell it in the US.

I had upgrade some parts and the bike looked really nice. Did feel the weight of the bike or ride it which would have been a lot more interesting but I was too busy doing the last DH runs of 2008 to worry about that.
 

bradflyn

Chimp
Oct 27, 2008
23
0
Washington
A Diamondback USA ... no plans at the moment to sell it in the US.

When I was at Eurobike 2 years ago I got to see the Diamondback and was asking about it coming to the US and the UK guys said that the Americans were not interested in it and some kind of rivalry thing about UK designed stuff sucking. Funny thing it was designed by an american after all. So till they learn to share, still no bike in the states, I guess. It was cool to see when at the show to bad not back here in the states yet.
 
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MrPlow

Monkey
Sep 9, 2004
628
0
Toowoomba Queensland
I had a good look at the Diamond Back at Worlds last year in Fort Bill. Apparently if Diamond back USA even knew that Europe was making a proto gearbox bike they would have canned it. He said the Engineers in UK were keen and kept it quiet. Do you blame them for not sharing??
FWIW I still think they are way too heavy and with most DH riders wanting lighter, how is a heavier bike a progression?