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OEM tyres

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,031
1,748
Northern California
I fondled some 'normal' minion dhfs next to some WTs yesterday.

I'm changing my assessment. The knobs on the WT are wider/longer but not proportionally taller. They're just effectively shorter. So like, you know, same thing really. :D
Which version/casing of each? Comparing my 27.5 2.5 non-WT DHs against my 27.5 2.5 WT DDs I don't see any obvious difference in the shape/height of the knobs; the noticeable difference is the width of the channel between the center and side-knobs.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,582
2,011
Seattle
I'll make a blanket non-scientific statement that the WT tyres are completely unrideabru on anything less than a 27mm rim. I'm lucky there there wasn't a fireball and explosion just from trying it.
Annoyingly, not all WTs are created equal. For example the 2.5 Shorty is listed as a WT in both 26 and 650b, but has a totally reasonable profile on a 25mm rim. The 2.5 650b Minion, not so much.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,535
4,807
Australia
The little sticks and twigs in it weren't fun. Getting them scrubbed out was definitely not fun.

Annoyingly, not all WTs are created equal. For example the 2.5 Shorty is listed as a WT in both 26 and 650b, but has a totally reasonable profile on a 25mm rim. The 2.5 650b Minion, not so much.
One of the local shop guys said Maxxis was dropping the WT distinction and just going to the bigger bag sizes for the wider tyre sizes across the board.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,074
1,309
Styria
650b x 2.5 WT DD MaxxGrip on DT EX 174 on the left, 26 x 2.5 EXO MaxxTerra on Stans Flow on the right

IMG_20180128_152229_563.jpg


Same like above, big wheel front, small wheel aft


IMG_20180128_152159_433.jpg


Both pretty little runtime, both side blocks 6 mm deep measured along the sipes of the rectangular blocks.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,342
924
East Bay, Cali
In regards to the original topic. My Capra came with EXO casing HRII's with no markings regarding the rubber compound and they do indeed suck.

I plan on running them out back during the summer and doing sick skids until they die.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,738
5,649
UK
In regards to the original topic. My Capra came with EXO casing HRII's with no markings regarding the rubber compound and they do indeed suck.

I plan on running them out back during the summer and doing sick skids until they die.

Which year Capra was that? Those things suck?*

I didn't notice the OEM tyres sucking on my 2017 Capra. I do remember thinking they were one of the most predictable both wheel drifting tyresets I've ever ridden though. I still have them. but haven't used them (or the 27.5 wheels) since I changed to 26" two weeks after getting the bike.

*disclaimer - I'm not overly worried about having overly soft compound tyres on anything but a DH race bike. Especially on the rear. I ride so many different bikes I have to recalibrate traction between them all anyway.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,342
924
East Bay, Cali
Which year Capra was that?
2017 or whatever they call what they are selling now. I don't think they do strict model years.

They weren't the white MAXXIS logo so maybe they weren't as bad as others. Coming off of years of riding 3C rubber they were lacking in the grip department. One of my first rides was a wet steep root fest and they were not hooking up at all. But then again the HRII isn't really designed for wet steep root fests so...... Also the HRII isn't really an ideal front tire and I was definitely noticing it.

They'll work fine out back for the hard pack on some of the Cali trails in the summer. The harder rubber might even be good for some faster rolling.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,357
5,106
Ottawa, Canada
2017 or whatever they call what they are selling now. I don't think they do strict model years.

They weren't the white MAXXIS logo so maybe they weren't as bad as others. Coming off of years of riding 3C rubber they were lacking in the grip department. One of my first rides was a wet steep root fest and they were not hooking up at all. But then again the HRII isn't really designed for wet steep root fests so...... Also the HRII isn't really an ideal front tire and I was definitely noticing it.

They'll work fine out back for the hard pack on some of the Cali trails in the summer. The harder rubber might even be good for some faster rolling.
Not to be an apologist, but isn't there manufacturing residue on tires when they are first sold that makes them a bit slippery at first? Doesn't it take a few runs to get them "just right"? If you rode new tires on slippery roots, aren't you setting yourself for failure? I seem to recall Minaar saying he only uses pre-worn tires. Of course, that could just be BS team riders throw out there to fuck with the punters.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,856
12,842
In a van.... down by the river
Not to be an apologist, but isn't there manufacturing residue on tires when they are first sold that makes them a bit slippery at first? Doesn't it take a few runs to get them "just right"? If you rode new tires on slippery roots, aren't you setting yourself for failure? I seem to recall Minaar saying he only uses pre-worn tires. Of course, that could just be BS team riders throw out there to fuck with the punters.
My high rollers tried to kill me by sliding out on dry rock well after they had been "broken in" - they just seem to be poor in the traction department.

Full disclosure: I'm coming off Wild Rock'R2s with Magi-X compound, so perhaps I'm being unjust to the "generic" compound Maxxis on the new bike...
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,342
924
East Bay, Cali
Not to be an apologist, but isn't there manufacturing residue on tires when they are first sold that makes them a bit slippery at first? Doesn't it take a few runs to get them "just right"? If you rode new tires on slippery roots, aren't you setting yourself for failure? I seem to recall Minaar saying he only uses pre-worn tires. Of course, that could just be BS team riders throw out there to fuck with the punters.
I had gotten a day on them previously so they should have been broken in. Also I went back to the same trails with a different set of tires, straight out of the box (Magic Mary front and DHRII rear) and they killed it.

Honestly, I think the issue is the HRII isn't a good tire for the conditions I was riding and it isn't very good in the front. Combine that with the standard rubber when I'm used to 3C and they feel like poop. I suspect they will feel just fine in the rear hauling ass on hard pack and drifting the cali moon dust during the summer.
 

'size

Turbo Monkey
May 30, 2007
2,000
338
AZ
from what I've gathered the magi-x is 52/50 center/side which isn't especially soft. I've always given the design of that tire most of the credit for its traction and can't say I've noticed a whole lot of difference from the gum-x at 60/56. it's always dry, loose and rocky here though so tread design seems to play as much of a role as compound (to a point).

no idea what the oem maxxis you guys have are but aftermarket are supposed to be:
maxx speed - 70 base/62 center/60 side
maxx terra - 70/50/42
maxx grip - 70/42/40
dual - 60 center/51 side
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,738
5,649
UK
One of my first rides was a wet steep root fest and they were not hooking up at all.
That's pretty much all I ride with my Capra and mine (exactly the same OEM HR2s as yours) although obviously not the absolute best choice for those conditions were absolutely fine and handled exactly as predicted.
I find it quite frankly ridiculous riders these days can't cope without the absolute stickiest rubber to get down stuff rather than just to "run what ya brung" and actually learn the tyres limits (and limitations) and just enjoy the sketch.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,342
924
East Bay, Cali
OK, so I didn't even need to pick up the phone. A quick peruse of the bike specs shows that they are MaxxPro which I think is the much maligned 60a compound.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,856
12,842
In a van.... down by the river
That's pretty much all I ride with my Capra and mine (exactly the same OEM HR2s as yours) although obviously not the absolute best choice for those conditions were absolutely fine and handled exactly as predicted.
I find it quite frankly ridiculous riders these days can't cope without the absolute stickiest rubber to get down stuff rather than just to "run what ya brung" and actually learn the tyres limits (and limitations) and just enjoy the sketch.
Heh. If they won't grip on off-camber dry sandstone... I shall declare them unrideabru shit tires.

:D
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,342
924
East Bay, Cali
That's pretty much all I ride with my Capra and mine (exactly the same OEM HR2s as yours) although obviously not the absolute best choice for those conditions were absolutely fine and handled exactly as predicted.
I find it quite frankly ridiculous riders these days can't cope without the absolute stickiest rubber to get down stuff rather than just to "run what ya brung" and actually learn the tyres limits (and limitations) and just enjoy the sketch.
Why even buy a nice bike then? Just get an old used Rock Hopper off the internet and send it!! Stop being such a sissy with all your suspension and dialed in geometry. Even if you are gonna use suspension you shouldn't turn the nobs or adjust the spring rate. Run it how they send it to you from the factory. Just enjoy the sketch :busted:

In all seriousness. Tires are one of the best ways to upgrade a bike without spending a lot of cash and I'm lucky enough to have a shop that hooks me up with parts at cost plus a little for their trouble. So why not? I'm either gonna sell or trash the old tires during summer so it's not like they're going to waste.

Plus these fuckers in Santa Cruz are building some seriously steep and loose trails. I got down them on shitty tires but it wasn't pretty.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,738
5,649
UK
Happy to ride way worse bikes than a rockhopper. lucky enough to have lots of choice.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,535
4,807
Australia
I find it quite frankly ridiculous riders these days can't cope without the absolute stickiest rubber to get down stuff rather than just to "run what ya brung" and actually learn the tyres limits (and limitations) and just enjoy the sketch.
We can't all be as hardcore obviously.

I just get caught out after running proper soft compound tyres for months, and then swapping to mega-hard junk. Soft compound ftw. I'd be running purple Addix Magic Marys for everything if (a) I could afford them and (b) I was willing to put up with the rolling resistance and weight. Those things are next level magical wundertyres.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,738
5,649
UK
Oh. I can completely understand buying/using the softest stickiest best for the conditions/use tyres.
What I can't understand is losing your shit when you find yourself riding on something that hasn't got them.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,856
12,842
In a van.... down by the river
Oh. I can completely understand buying/using the softest stickiest best for the conditions/use tyres.
What I can't understand is losing your shit when you find yourself riding on something that hasn't got them.
I don't think anyone lost their shit. I, did, however, conclude that the tires were shite when they tried to kill me.

I had a 1/2 worn Rubber Queen do they tho me once, too. I promptly got rid of it.
 

'size

Turbo Monkey
May 30, 2007
2,000
338
AZ
Oh. I can completely understand buying/using the softest stickiest best for the conditions/use tyres.
What I can't understand is losing your shit when you find yourself riding on something that hasn't got them.
did you forget that the bicycle industry was built on convincing people that the best is barely good enough and adequate is unacceptable?
 

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
2,000
716
Maxxis tires do suck. My 2017 Spartan came with a DHR2 and hr2, dd, c3, max terra, couple more acronyms.
One rock in particular that I never slipped on in the past, I did every time this year. I've done it a million times before using Panaracer Fire XC Pros to Kenda Nevagels and never slipped wet or dry. It's a straight shot onto it, no camber, has a 30*ish face and is a foot high. This year, first time on the new bike, the front got up and the back slid right out. The rock was dry and I didn't do anything differently. Note that this isn't the only rock, but it was a shock that I slid out on such a non-technical rock that it hadn't happened on before. Any rock that was cambered (my whole area that I ride) the rear would slip to the side.

It's not that we "need" sticky tires, but when your tires are shit and slide off of every little thing, it takes away from your riding - enjoyment and what your paying attention to. What I never paid attention to in the past, I now have to. It changes your lines that you've ridden for a while also.

So, it's not that we need sticky, it's that we don't want poor traction.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,653
3,093
Maxxis tires do suck. My 2017 Spartan came with a DHR2 and hr2, dd, c3, max terra, couple more acronyms.
One rock in particular that I never slipped on in the past, I did every time this year. I've done it a million times before using Panaracer Fire XC Pros to Kenda Nevagels and never slipped wet or dry. It's a straight shot onto it, no camber, has a 30*ish face and is a foot high. This year, first time on the new bike, the front got up and the back slid right out. The rock was dry and I didn't do anything differently. Note that this isn't the only rock, but it was a shock that I slid out on such a non-technical rock that it hadn't happened on before. Any rock that was cambered (my whole area that I ride) the rear would slip to the side.

It's not that we "need" sticky tires, but when your tires are shit and slide off of every little thing, it takes away from your riding - enjoyment and what your paying attention to. What I never paid attention to in the past, I now have to. It changes your lines that you've ridden for a while also.

So, it's not that we need sticky, it's that we don't want poor traction.
Have you considered the effects of long geometries in this? Maybe your weight is in a different place so that the tire can't develop the traction it actually has?
 

Bike078

Monkey
Jan 11, 2018
576
417
Oh. I can completely understand buying/using the softest stickiest best for the conditions/use tyres.
What I can't understand is losing your shit when you find yourself riding on something that hasn't got them.
Hey @Gary, you want some maxxpro tires? They're pretty much all I have. Except for 1 3C Minion dhf. :D

What made us lose our shit was when we first learned about the price of schwalbe tires because they cost something like half of the minimum monthly wage in my country. :crazy:
 

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
2,000
716
Have you considered the effects of long geometries in this? Maybe your weight is in a different place so that the tire can't develop the traction it actually has?
Look up a 2010 remedy and a 2017 Spartan. I ran a 160mm 36 talas on the Remedy that came with a 150mm 32. 35mm different a2c.

'10 Remedy
Hta 68* w/stock 32
67* w/36
STA 73* (w/32)
CS 435mm
WB 1127 w/stock
150mm 32
Reach 413mm

'17 Spartan
Hta 66*
STA 72.4*
CS 432mm
WB 1161
Reach 413mm

Besides, I rode these trails on a 1996 hardtail. If geometry made a big difference, I would have noticed it 15 years ago.
 
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Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
I find it quite frankly ridiculous riders these days can't cope without the absolute stickiest rubber to get down stuff rather than just to "run what ya brung" and actually learn the tyres limits (and limitations) and just enjoy the sketch.
Yeah, which muppet would prioritise safety and traction on the most important part of a wheeled vehicle...

I'm absolutely loving Schwalbe's Addix-Purple, count me in the "riders these days who can't cope" group I guess. :D